What has the EU done to you?
Discussion
wheedler said:
simoid said:
Come again?
Examples of bureaucracy that we wouldn'thave to deal with if we wweren't "governed" by Brussels - the 'six pack' of H+S legislation or similar as HASAW 1974 is contemporary in implementation to the uk joining ( and therefore drafted before) - a lot of the hassle related to these is none expert implementation and the no-win no fee culture ...
- most CEN standards have replaced or supplemented BS or DIN standards and they AREN'T legislation any more than BS or DIN standards were.
- there were UK drivers hours regulations before the EU ones
- legislation that provided the breaks and weekly rest requirements of the EWTD even if the 48 hour AVERAGE working week stuff wasn;t put in place.
willmcc said:
If you have ever driven out of town and admired the beautiful English countryside you are looking at EU money.
ignoring all the other statements you made- this is so ridiculous you MUST surely be trolling? Do i need a whoosh parrot?the english countryside was fully formed around 100 years ago, little has changed since, ceratinly not in terms of field lines, boundaries, forests etc etc.
There is a reason why wainwrights walks are so popular- and the EU would have seemed a mad nightmare to everyone living in Europe when wainwright was alive.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/e...
oh i do hope we get a couple of the clowns here
oh i do hope we get a couple of the clowns here
The Crack Fox said:
I don't normally post in NPE, but here goes...
Norway: Colossal natural resources and a small population.
Switzerland: Huge (and I'm quite sure, often iffy) financial sector and a modest-size population.
These are not fair comparisons with the UK, or the rest of the world, for that matter.
What has the EU done for me ? I've been lucky enough to live and work in different places in Europe, it wouldn't have been so easy without the EU, and for all those moaning about paying for Greek pensions, German healthcare, Portugese bank holidays - the beauty of the EU is that if the grass is greener in another state you can go and see for yourself without having to take to a Lancaster like Grandad did. Folks moaning about Poles coming here, they should try living in (say) Sweden, lots of Brits up there and the lifestyle is most appealing. Why not ? You can Ryanair home for £50 to see Man U and eat a Sunday Roast if you miss blighty.
With migration and commerce the differences within the EU become less well defined. That's the whole point of it. We're all made of the same skin and bone, we have the same aspirations and fears. How many of the Anti's have lived elsewhere in the EU ? Learned another language ? It gives you a more balanced view on things, it did me, anyway.
Only c.100 years ago MILLIONS of Europeans, inclding members of my family and probably yours, died wretched deaths in wet trenches in WW1. c.75 years ago MILLIONS more Europeans, including members of my family and probably yours, got their lives shattered by WW2. We cannot let that happen again, ever, this is why a close-knit EU is critical. I'll happily subsidise a bent Italian MP, or even that simpleton Farage, if it means I don't get my balls shot off in a bloody field like our ancestors.
I've got a nice house, good job, lovely family and the opportunity to easily explore and work on a continent on my doorstep. The people I've met on my travels throughout Europe are just like me (give or take). Their politicians are as good, and bad, as ours. I don't doubt that the EU has over-stretched itself financially, but I think, with time, people will see the EU as a good thing. I already do.
Most of what you describe as EU benefits were already available under the original Common Market. And its NATO, Nukes and the memory of WW2 that stops more wars, not the EU.Norway: Colossal natural resources and a small population.
Switzerland: Huge (and I'm quite sure, often iffy) financial sector and a modest-size population.
These are not fair comparisons with the UK, or the rest of the world, for that matter.
What has the EU done for me ? I've been lucky enough to live and work in different places in Europe, it wouldn't have been so easy without the EU, and for all those moaning about paying for Greek pensions, German healthcare, Portugese bank holidays - the beauty of the EU is that if the grass is greener in another state you can go and see for yourself without having to take to a Lancaster like Grandad did. Folks moaning about Poles coming here, they should try living in (say) Sweden, lots of Brits up there and the lifestyle is most appealing. Why not ? You can Ryanair home for £50 to see Man U and eat a Sunday Roast if you miss blighty.
With migration and commerce the differences within the EU become less well defined. That's the whole point of it. We're all made of the same skin and bone, we have the same aspirations and fears. How many of the Anti's have lived elsewhere in the EU ? Learned another language ? It gives you a more balanced view on things, it did me, anyway.
Only c.100 years ago MILLIONS of Europeans, inclding members of my family and probably yours, died wretched deaths in wet trenches in WW1. c.75 years ago MILLIONS more Europeans, including members of my family and probably yours, got their lives shattered by WW2. We cannot let that happen again, ever, this is why a close-knit EU is critical. I'll happily subsidise a bent Italian MP, or even that simpleton Farage, if it means I don't get my balls shot off in a bloody field like our ancestors.
I've got a nice house, good job, lovely family and the opportunity to easily explore and work on a continent on my doorstep. The people I've met on my travels throughout Europe are just like me (give or take). Their politicians are as good, and bad, as ours. I don't doubt that the EU has over-stretched itself financially, but I think, with time, people will see the EU as a good thing. I already do.
The Crack Fox said:
Switzerland: Huge (and I'm quite sure, often iffy) financial sector and a modest-size population.
1/8th the population of the UK, 1/4 of the GDP of the UK! 1/4 of the exports of the UK! 23% employed in manufacturing, 1/2 the FDI of the UK... glencore, abb, novartis, nestle, roche. nothing but dodgy banks and cuckoo clocks stereotype used to explain why we couldn't possibly copy them and leave the eu; check.AJS- said:
willmcc said:
If you have ever driven out of town and admired the beautiful English countryside you are looking at EU money.
Likewise many of the roads outside the South East especially Cornwall, Wales and the NE are built with EU money.
There are many people in the UK benefitting from direct EU cash, trouble is none of them live in the SE so no-one notices.
That's awfully nice of them. But where does this "EU money" come from?Likewise many of the roads outside the South East especially Cornwall, Wales and the NE are built with EU money.
There are many people in the UK benefitting from direct EU cash, trouble is none of them live in the SE so no-one notices.
This regionalism line of argument is I am sure intended to divide and make the subsidy hungry regions believe that their bread is buttered on the EU side. Rubbish. The UK is quite capable of building our own roads without Brussels taking it's cut.
We should keep OUR money & spend it on OUR country. Giving to idiots in brussels to waste & hand out to the undeserving before handing us back a tiny bit of it isn't a good plan.
The Crack Fox said:
I've got a nice house, good job, lovely family and the opportunity to easily explore and work on a continent on my doorstep. The people I've met on my travels throughout Europe are just like me (give or take). Their politicians are as good, and bad, as ours. I don't doubt that the EU has over-stretched itself financially, but I think, with time, people will see the EU as a good thing. I already do.
I empathise with your views, but I don't agree with the cause.Looking at the EU now, do you not perceive something akin to a soviet approach - the people will all be equal, and we shall look after them as we know how to...just trust in the government/union and do as you are told.
Far-fetched? Perhaps- in fact I hope so, but I don't trust politicians and even less ones I don't get to vote for, and I'm moving towards the frontier spirit that would say 'Freedom comes at a price', and it might be a high one. Either we fight to maintain independence, or we get subsumed into some greater euroland technocratic dream.
(I'll admit most governments come to resemble this - to provide for everyone you'll have to homogenise demand, and with it people's aspirations. See what Obama is creating in the USA)
Art0ir said:
Didn't something like this happen in Italy and they had to pay back $500 million. By they I mean the Italian government AJS- said:
willmcc said:
If you have ever driven out of town and admired the beautiful English countryside you are looking at EU money.
Likewise many of the roads outside the South East especially Cornwall, Wales and the NE are built with EU money.
There are many people in the UK benefitting from direct EU cash, trouble is none of them live in the SE so no-one notices.
That's awfully nice of them. But where does this "EU money" come from?Likewise many of the roads outside the South East especially Cornwall, Wales and the NE are built with EU money.
There are many people in the UK benefitting from direct EU cash, trouble is none of them live in the SE so no-one notices.
This regionalism line of argument is I am sure intended to divide and make the subsidy hungry regions believe that their bread is buttered on the EU side. Rubbish. The UK is quite capable of building our own roads without Brussels taking it's cut.
Edited by mph1977 on Wednesday 6th February 16:47
Edited by mph1977 on Wednesday 6th February 16:47
mph1977 said:
AJS- said:
willmcc said:
If you have ever driven out of town and admired the beautiful English countryside you are looking at EU money.
Likewise many of the roads outside the South East especially Cornwall, Wales and the NE are built with EU money.
There are many people in the UK benefitting from direct EU cash, trouble is none of them live in the SE so no-one notices.
That's awfully nice of them. But where does this "EU money" come from?Likewise many of the roads outside the South East especially Cornwall, Wales and the NE are built with EU money.
There are many people in the UK benefitting from direct EU cash, trouble is none of them live in the SE so no-one notices.
This regionalism line of argument is I am sure intended to divide and make the subsidy hungry regions believe that their bread is buttered on the EU side. Rubbish. The UK is quite capable of building our own roads without Brussels taking it's cut.
Edited by mph1977 on Wednesday 6th February 16:47
Edited by mph1977 on Wednesday 6th February 16:47
s2art said:
Currently closer to £10 billion. Cant believe that the direct/indirect benefits of spending our public money elsewhere in the EU are anything like the benefits we would get by spending it here, or reducing our taxes by the equivalent and let us decide how to spend our money.
This website says 10.8 billion in 2008. http://www.democracymovementsurrey.co.uk/dyk_eucos...It also estimates the net loss at 65 billion a year.
I, too, find it hard to believe that it would not be better spent in the UK. There is a figure in that article about it costing every man, woman and child 1000 quid each a year to be a member of the EU. Considering that the working population is about half of the total population (a rough estimate taking into account retired people, children and the unemployed) it's most likely double that figure, at 2000 quid a year.
So let's say you're on an average salary of 22,000 p/a, putting your tax bill at 2,800 a year excluding national insurance. If we were to leave the EU and all the associated savings were passed onto the taxpayer (I know, it's not going to happen, but it's a good example) then people on an average salary would only pay 800 quid of income tax a year.
In addition, the reduced costs of doing business would bring foreign investment and thus reduce unemployment whilst also improving our global competitiveness
wheedler said:
Hooli said:
We should keep OUR money & spend it on OUR country. Giving to idiots in brussels to waste & hand out to the undeserving before handing us back a tiny bit of it isn't a good plan.
Bedazzled said:
We are a net contributor, I don't think there is a direct financial benefit, although UK businesses avoid export tariffs etc. It's as much about 'buying' political influence in Europe and a block vote in the UN. Either it's worth £8-10B/yr for the UK to be on the inside of that process, or it isn't, that's the nub of it.
Not really sure why we would want a block vote when we have a permanent seat in our own right. The whole "influence" argument falls down anyway for me whenever the question is raised of who we want to influence to do what.AJS- said:
Bedazzled said:
We are a net contributor, I don't think there is a direct financial benefit, although UK businesses avoid export tariffs etc. It's as much about 'buying' political influence in Europe and a block vote in the UN. Either it's worth £8-10B/yr for the UK to be on the inside of that process, or it isn't, that's the nub of it.
Not really sure why we would want a block vote when we have a permanent seat in our own right. The whole "influence" argument falls down anyway for me whenever the question is raised of who we want to influence to do what.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff