What has the EU done to you?
Discussion
Caulkhead said:
simoid said:
Caulkhead said:
Most people like the single market idea, most don't like the EU's lack of democracy, the fact it's accounts haven't been signed off since god was a boy and in the case of the single currency and don't think having all our fiscal levers controlled in Frankfurt for the benefit of Germany is a good idea. Do you?
As for your question about what has the EU done to me over 10 years, well at an estimated annual cost to the UK of £65bn per annum multiplied by 10 years divided by a population of 60m, I estimate it has personally cost me (and probably you) £10,833.33. I'd like it back please.
Er, not taking into account the benefits.As for your question about what has the EU done to me over 10 years, well at an estimated annual cost to the UK of £65bn per annum multiplied by 10 years divided by a population of 60m, I estimate it has personally cost me (and probably you) £10,833.33. I'd like it back please.
http://www.brugesgroup.com/CostOfTheEU2008.pdf
Don't the politicians know that?
We could wipe out the national debt in a few years just by leaving the EU.
off.simoid said:
Caulkhead said:
simoid said:
Caulkhead said:
Most people like the single market idea, most don't like the EU's lack of democracy, the fact it's accounts haven't been signed off since god was a boy and in the case of the single currency and don't think having all our fiscal levers controlled in Frankfurt for the benefit of Germany is a good idea. Do you?
As for your question about what has the EU done to me over 10 years, well at an estimated annual cost to the UK of £65bn per annum multiplied by 10 years divided by a population of 60m, I estimate it has personally cost me (and probably you) £10,833.33. I'd like it back please.
Er, not taking into account the benefits.As for your question about what has the EU done to me over 10 years, well at an estimated annual cost to the UK of £65bn per annum multiplied by 10 years divided by a population of 60m, I estimate it has personally cost me (and probably you) £10,833.33. I'd like it back please.
http://www.brugesgroup.com/CostOfTheEU2008.pdf
Don't the politicians know that?
We could wipe out the national debt in a few years just by leaving the EU.
Don't forget how the EU works - rich countries give money and the EU distributes it to poorer countries after they've funded all their waste, largesse and gravy train.
Caulkhead said:
vonuber said:
Caulkhead said:
It's certainly going to make it 'easier' for a million Romanians later this year.
A million eh? Blimey. You do know they can work and stay here already.
How many contractors on here? They could all be Romanians or Bulgarians as they're just as legal as you or I.
Look under your bed, is there one there? They've been here for years, working and legally.
DonnyMac said:
Caulkhead said:
vonuber said:
Caulkhead said:
It's certainly going to make it 'easier' for a million Romanians later this year.
A million eh? Blimey. You do know they can work and stay here already.
How many contractors on here? They could all be Romanians or Bulgarians as they're just as legal as you or I.
Look under your bed, is there one there? They've been here for years, working and legally.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/bulga...
vonuber said:
I just love the way you are suggesting 1/19th of the entire romanian population is going to turn up.
2 million Poles have come to the UK to work between 2007 and 2011 with 500,000 becoming residents. Poland had a population of 38 million so that equates to, would you believe it, about 1/19th of the entire population of Poland. Given that Romanians have arguably more to gain coming here than Poles, what makes you think a similar figure is so entertainingly inaccurate?vonuber said:
I just love the way you are suggesting 1/19th of the entire romanian population is going to turn up.
Romania is a very poor country, low standard of living, low standard of housing. If you were a poor romanian peasant family - there are a lot of them over there you know - living in a 1 bedroom $hit hole, with no hot water and no heating, . And you knew that you could come to the UK and within a few months you'd be living in a 2 bedroom house with central heating, free health care, good free education for your kids, and an income that is double what you are living on now - would you come here? I know I would, I'd be over like a shot, and who can blame them.Caulkhead said:
DonnyMac said:
Caulkhead said:
vonuber said:
Caulkhead said:
It's certainly going to make it 'easier' for a million Romanians later this year.
A million eh? Blimey. You do know they can work and stay here already.
How many contractors on here? They could all be Romanians or Bulgarians as they're just as legal as you or I.
Look under your bed, is there one there? They've been here for years, working and legally.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/bulga...
Self employed are exempt. Those that have worked for 12 months under the other excepted jobs are also exempt, those working for another EEC company are exempt, those that are 'self sufficient' are exempt - I'm trying to think whom it does actually apply to... Well PAYE bods for sure as your helpful link which I've seen many times keeps referring to employment and employer.
Open a company, become a contractor = exempt.
DonnyMac said:
Caulkhead said:
DonnyMac said:
Caulkhead said:
vonuber said:
Caulkhead said:
It's certainly going to make it 'easier' for a million Romanians later this year.
A million eh? Blimey. You do know they can work and stay here already.
How many contractors on here? They could all be Romanians or Bulgarians as they're just as legal as you or I.
Look under your bed, is there one there? They've been here for years, working and legally.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/bulga...
Self employed are exempt. Those that have worked for 12 months under the other excepted jobs are also exempt, those working for another EEC company are exempt, those that are 'self sufficient' are exempt - I'm trying to think whom it does actually apply to... Well PAYE bods for sure as your helpful link which I've seen many times keeps referring to employment and employer.
Open a company, become a contractor = exempt.
If you open a company, you do not become a contractor, you become a director of a company that may contract its services to others. I think you mean, become a sole trader and then become a contractor.
wheedler said:
simoid said:
Only 3 people in the world can work for you doing this particular type of cleaning?
Cleaning a small hotel, very important part of the business for me, don't even think I can remember seeing or getting job application from anyone English simoid said:
wheedler said:
simoid said:
Come again?
Examples of bureaucracy that we wouldn'thave to deal with if we wweren't "governed" by Brussels The Lisbon treaty obliges the EU to negotiate a Free Trade Agreement with any country that wishes to leave the EU. Article 50 is what you need to read
Caulkhead said:
DonnyMac said:
Caulkhead said:
DonnyMac said:
Caulkhead said:
vonuber said:
Caulkhead said:
It's certainly going to make it 'easier' for a million Romanians later this year.
A million eh? Blimey. You do know they can work and stay here already.
How many contractors on here? They could all be Romanians or Bulgarians as they're just as legal as you or I.
Look under your bed, is there one there? They've been here for years, working and legally.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/bulga...
Self employed are exempt. Those that have worked for 12 months under the other excepted jobs are also exempt, those working for another EEC company are exempt, those that are 'self sufficient' are exempt - I'm trying to think whom it does actually apply to... Well PAYE bods for sure as your helpful link which I've seen many times keeps referring to employment and employer.
Open a company, become a contractor = exempt.
If you open a company, you do not become a contractor, you become a director of a company that may contract its services to others. I think you mean, become a sole trader and then become a contractor.
Nice smooth bus ride on the roads in Spain when i go on holiday.LOL.
Must admit i don't fully understand this EU thing. Seams we have to pay a lot of money to trade with Europe.I have read some where that it costs us more than what we get back.(Is that correct). If that's the cast why are we not paying the rest of the world to trade with them.
Would of thought the only way EU would work is if we where all on an even keel.
EG. Same taxes . Retiring ages . Every thing you buy is the same price. Every one payed the same rates in the jobs your in.
Must admit i don't fully understand this EU thing. Seams we have to pay a lot of money to trade with Europe.I have read some where that it costs us more than what we get back.(Is that correct). If that's the cast why are we not paying the rest of the world to trade with them.
Would of thought the only way EU would work is if we where all on an even keel.
EG. Same taxes . Retiring ages . Every thing you buy is the same price. Every one payed the same rates in the jobs your in.
Caulkhead said:
2 million Poles have come to the UK to work between 2007 and 2011 with 500,000 becoming residents. Poland had a population of 38 million so that equates to, would you believe it, about 1/19th of the entire population of Poland. Given that Romanians have arguably more to gain coming here than Poles, what makes you think a similar figure is so entertainingly inaccurate?
Because Poland has a long history of settlement in this country, not least after the second world war. In fact I had dinner in a Polish restaurant set up for Polish airmen in WW2 not so long ago, and there were many young Poles (and Brits) in there.Romanians are far more likely to go to Italy where there are already existing ties and language similarities.
JensenA said:
Romania is a very poor country, low standard of living, low standard of housing. If you were a poor romanian peasant family - there are a lot of them over there you know - living in a 1 bedroom $hit hole, with no hot water and no heating, . And you knew that you could come to the UK and within a few months you'd be living in a 2 bedroom house with central heating, free health care, good free education for your kids, and an income that is double what you are living on now - would you come here? I know I would, I'd be over like a shot, and who can blame them.
Ah, so we are giving out free accommodation to Romanians now eh? Surely they will have to queue behind all the other immigrant hordes. You do also know that double an income is negated due to the much higher costs of living here - or are you saying they will all be on benefits?Romanians seem to be the new bogeymen of immigration. Doesn't help that most seem to confuse them with the Roma.
Vonuber - What I am saying is that there is a very real risk of it happening. There isn't an empolyment shortage in this country, so we do not need further immigration. In my opinion it therefore be sensible to ensure that we put steps in place to prevent this happening. However as we are an EU member country, the steps we are able to take are extremely limited, if we were not in the EU we would be able to pick and choose who enters our country.
JensenA said:
This thread illustrates exactly the danger of having a referendum on the EU - very very few people seem to understand what the EU is.
The original referendum back in the 70's (was it the 70's?) was to join the Common Market. In simple terms a group of countries that had formed a club to enable Free Trade amongst them. The UK voted to join that club, a collection of Independent Soverign countries, that traded with no export/import taxes, and helped and assisted each other on some defined common policies.
The EU has evolved into a totally different entity. The whole agenda of the EU is to create a single European State, a United States of Europe. That process has been a process of stealth, and it is increasing. For example look at your passport, you are not a UK citizen, you are an European Citizen. That is why all EU passports are the same. Apply for an online job, and there will be a drop down box for 'EU Citizen' - not UK, german, Polish, but EU. Border controls between EU countries were not removed to make travel between countries easier - which they obviously achieved - but because of the idealistic notion that the EU is a Nation, and Nations do NOT have internal border controls.
An good analogy is the UK. The UK consists of England, Scotland, Wales, and NI. We have no borders between us, we have a central government based in westminster, but each constituent 'country' has a degree of autonomy with its own national assembly, but their powers are limited and controlled by Westminster. We are able to vote for the politicians in Westminster, but we have absolutely no say in electing the EU Government. They are unelected, they are appointed Bureaucrats, all of whom have a vested interest in acheiving an EU Nation state.
So the question, the topic of discussion, is NOT "Do we want to pull out of the 'Common Market' and risk losing an export market?" but "Do we want tighter, and further integration, into Europe, and become sub-ordinate members of an European Superstate?"
Indeed, it is the "United States of Europe"The original referendum back in the 70's (was it the 70's?) was to join the Common Market. In simple terms a group of countries that had formed a club to enable Free Trade amongst them. The UK voted to join that club, a collection of Independent Soverign countries, that traded with no export/import taxes, and helped and assisted each other on some defined common policies.
The EU has evolved into a totally different entity. The whole agenda of the EU is to create a single European State, a United States of Europe. That process has been a process of stealth, and it is increasing. For example look at your passport, you are not a UK citizen, you are an European Citizen. That is why all EU passports are the same. Apply for an online job, and there will be a drop down box for 'EU Citizen' - not UK, german, Polish, but EU. Border controls between EU countries were not removed to make travel between countries easier - which they obviously achieved - but because of the idealistic notion that the EU is a Nation, and Nations do NOT have internal border controls.
An good analogy is the UK. The UK consists of England, Scotland, Wales, and NI. We have no borders between us, we have a central government based in westminster, but each constituent 'country' has a degree of autonomy with its own national assembly, but their powers are limited and controlled by Westminster. We are able to vote for the politicians in Westminster, but we have absolutely no say in electing the EU Government. They are unelected, they are appointed Bureaucrats, all of whom have a vested interest in acheiving an EU Nation state.
So the question, the topic of discussion, is NOT "Do we want to pull out of the 'Common Market' and risk losing an export market?" but "Do we want tighter, and further integration, into Europe, and become sub-ordinate members of an European Superstate?"
The only thing that's a big divider is language.
I guess it has given me the right to live and work in 27 countries as I please (read right, not privilege)
Oh and harmonised mobile phone roaming across states.
JensenA said:
This thread illustrates exactly the danger of having a referendum on the EU - very very few people seem to understand what the EU is.
The original referendum back in the 70's (was it the 70's?) was to join the Common Market. In simple terms a group of countries that had formed a club to enable Free Trade amongst them. The UK voted to join that club, a collection of Independent Soverign countries, that traded with no export/import taxes, and helped and assisted each other on some defined common policies.
The EU has evolved into a totally different entity. The whole agenda of the EU is to create a single European State, a United States of Europe. That process has been a process of stealth, and it is increasing. For example look at your passport, you are not a UK citizen, you are an European Citizen. That is why all EU passports are the same. Apply for an online job, and there will be a drop down box for 'EU Citizen' - not UK, german, Polish, but EU. Border controls between EU countries were not removed to make travel between countries easier - which they obviously achieved - but because of the idealistic notion that the EU is a Nation, and Nations do NOT have internal border controls.
An good analogy is the UK. The UK consists of England, Scotland, Wales, and NI. We have no borders between us, we have a central government based in westminster, but each constituent 'country' has a degree of autonomy with its own national assembly, but their powers are limited and controlled by Westminster. We are able to vote for the politicians in Westminster, but we have absolutely no say in electing the EU Government. They are unelected, they are appointed Bureaucrats, all of whom have a vested interest in acheiving an EU Nation state.
So the question, the topic of discussion, is NOT "Do we want to pull out of the 'Common Market' and risk losing an export market?" but "Do we want tighter, and further integration, into Europe, and become sub-ordinate members of an European Superstate?"
Not sure what world you're living in but it's not the same one as me. The original referendum back in the 70's (was it the 70's?) was to join the Common Market. In simple terms a group of countries that had formed a club to enable Free Trade amongst them. The UK voted to join that club, a collection of Independent Soverign countries, that traded with no export/import taxes, and helped and assisted each other on some defined common policies.
The EU has evolved into a totally different entity. The whole agenda of the EU is to create a single European State, a United States of Europe. That process has been a process of stealth, and it is increasing. For example look at your passport, you are not a UK citizen, you are an European Citizen. That is why all EU passports are the same. Apply for an online job, and there will be a drop down box for 'EU Citizen' - not UK, german, Polish, but EU. Border controls between EU countries were not removed to make travel between countries easier - which they obviously achieved - but because of the idealistic notion that the EU is a Nation, and Nations do NOT have internal border controls.
An good analogy is the UK. The UK consists of England, Scotland, Wales, and NI. We have no borders between us, we have a central government based in westminster, but each constituent 'country' has a degree of autonomy with its own national assembly, but their powers are limited and controlled by Westminster. We are able to vote for the politicians in Westminster, but we have absolutely no say in electing the EU Government. They are unelected, they are appointed Bureaucrats, all of whom have a vested interest in acheiving an EU Nation state.
So the question, the topic of discussion, is NOT "Do we want to pull out of the 'Common Market' and risk losing an export market?" but "Do we want tighter, and further integration, into Europe, and become sub-ordinate members of an European Superstate?"
Right next to the photo on my passport it says "British Citizen". As for them all being the same, so is a US passport with the exception of it being blue. The photo page is the same with all the same info in the same format. There are lots of reasons why all passports being the same is a good idea, not least of which is speed of processing at the border.
As for your reasoning behind Schengen, perhaps you'd like to explain why the UK is not a signatory to that treaty and still has border controls? You do know that passport controls between European countries only became the norm after 1914 and that Benelux and Scandinavia have had agreements similar to Schengen since the 40's and 50's and you have heard of the Common Travel Area between the UK and Ireland that's been around since 1922 haven't you?
I applied for and got a new job late last year and at no point was I asked whether I was an EU Citizen, probably because there is no such thing. I was asked whether I had the right to work in the UK but I seem to recall being asked that for every job I've ever applied for.
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