Car thief brothers killed in car crash
Discussion
MocMocaMoc said:
Unfortunate human beings... ?
One of them seems to have been unfortunate a couple of times in his life...The Bolton News said:
In November, 2009, The Bolton News reported that Mr Best was jailed for six-and-a-half years for a number of armed robberies. He threatened a member of staff at the Royal Bolton Hospital’s car park with a knife. The terrified victim gave Mr Best her bag before he fled with an accomplice in a stolen car. More than 2,000 attack alarms were given to hospital staff following the robbery.
Mr Best also burgled a jewellery shop in Blackpool by drilling a hole in the window and using a hook and cane to fish £1,500 worth of gold bracelets from the shop’s display. On another day he went into another jewellery shop in Blackpool, posing as a customer, before picking up a £2,500 gold bracelet and walking out without paying.
The family did not want to pay tribute to the brothers.
Mr Best also burgled a jewellery shop in Blackpool by drilling a hole in the window and using a hook and cane to fish £1,500 worth of gold bracelets from the shop’s display. On another day he went into another jewellery shop in Blackpool, posing as a customer, before picking up a £2,500 gold bracelet and walking out without paying.
The family did not want to pay tribute to the brothers.
Andy Zarse said:
It might be nice in a leafy middle class suburb, but try living in the middle of Sheffield or a thousand other places. I've seen very few more scary places in the world than say Handsworth. Did you miss the riots?
I did miss the riots, as I live in rural Cambridgeshire. It is largely crime-free in the village, aside from the local (non-) travelling types thieving things occasionally. I have friends who live in Putney and they did not miss the riots. They still live where they did and seem happy to do so.I accept there are bad areas of the UK; even so, it seems to me that we have a fairly safe, pleasant country, don't we? Surely if we had a current proliferation of scum like the two thieves in this thread we'd have a rapidly rising crime rate?
The UK is a world or two away from places I've seen. I've not often felt more scared than when having to make a sharp exit from a particular situation with dodgy-looking locals holding guns and knives, in a country where the police are worse than useless, and require payment for safe travel (but unfortunately are rumoured to also take payment from criminals to turn a blind eye or worse).
Perhaps Handsworth is worse, and perhaps it is representative of the problems of the UK as a whole. I've somehow missed this wherever I've lived, as have all of my friends and relatives around the UK. None of them regards the country as scary or unsafe.
Andy Zarse said:
How come you moved? I thought you said this country was a pleasant place to live?
It is. There are some great areas, some not so nice areas, just like any country. I lost my job during the GFC in late 08. I came back to Australia as I got a job offer from someone I used to work with. With no work and no safety net in place as a non-citizen I could not stay in the UK.
I'll be back at some stage.
It strikes me that the apologists have no real experience of the sort of people who carry out these kind of crimes.
These aren't nice people who made one bad decision, they are people who have no respect for anything or anybody, who view everyone else as a potential victim and only differentiate between them based on how easy it would be to take from them and how much what they could take would be worth.
They also know no other way of life, from when they were toddlers they've committed crimes and see it as completely normal. Everyone else outside of their family and friends are over-privileged "mugs" who were gifted their shiny cars and nice houses by the same system that unfairly doesn't provide a wealthy lifestyle for them. Therefore they feel perfectly entitled to target the mugs as and when they feel like it. Their victims deserve it.
Prison is also a way of life, growing up they knew family members and friends who were inside for short stints and came out saying it's no big deal and they were only caught once in a blue moon anyway. The justice system is in no way a deterrent and there is no chance of reform with the current set up.
It's therefore not surprising to me having lived amongst these people and been a victim of their crimes too many times that people feel that they are "scum" and them being killed in the pursuit of one of their crimes is a good thing. To be honest, I would tend to agree with them - the current system does nothing to stop them making a lot of other innocent people's lives miserable, so it's easy to see their lives being ended prematurely as a good thing, rather than them contining to cause misery for the next 30 or 40 years and raised their offspring to do the same.
These aren't nice people who made one bad decision, they are people who have no respect for anything or anybody, who view everyone else as a potential victim and only differentiate between them based on how easy it would be to take from them and how much what they could take would be worth.
They also know no other way of life, from when they were toddlers they've committed crimes and see it as completely normal. Everyone else outside of their family and friends are over-privileged "mugs" who were gifted their shiny cars and nice houses by the same system that unfairly doesn't provide a wealthy lifestyle for them. Therefore they feel perfectly entitled to target the mugs as and when they feel like it. Their victims deserve it.
Prison is also a way of life, growing up they knew family members and friends who were inside for short stints and came out saying it's no big deal and they were only caught once in a blue moon anyway. The justice system is in no way a deterrent and there is no chance of reform with the current set up.
It's therefore not surprising to me having lived amongst these people and been a victim of their crimes too many times that people feel that they are "scum" and them being killed in the pursuit of one of their crimes is a good thing. To be honest, I would tend to agree with them - the current system does nothing to stop them making a lot of other innocent people's lives miserable, so it's easy to see their lives being ended prematurely as a good thing, rather than them contining to cause misery for the next 30 or 40 years and raised their offspring to do the same.
Edited by youngsyr on Wednesday 13th February 10:44
youngsyr said:
It strikes me that the apologists have no real experience of the sort of people who carry out these kind of crimes.
These aren't nice people who made one bad decision, they are people who have no respect for anything or anybody, who view everyone else as a potential victim and only differentiate between them based on how easy it would be to take from them and how much what they could take would be worth.
They also know no other way of life, from when they were toddlers they've committed crimes and see it as completely normal. Everyone else outside of their family and friends are over-privileged "mugs" who were gifted their shiny cars and nice houses by the same system that unfairly doesn't provide a wealthy lifestyle for them. Therefore they feel perfectly entitled to target the mugs as and when they feel like it. They deserve it.
Prison is also a way of life, growing up they knew family members and friends who were inside for short stints and came out saying it's no big deal and they were only caught once in a blue moon anyway. The justice system is in no way a deterrent and there is no chance of reform with the current set up.
It's therefore not surprising to me having lived amongst these people and been a victim of their crimes too many times that people feel that they are "scum" and them being killed in the pursuit of one of their crimes is a good thing. To be honest, I would tend to agree with them - the current system does nothing to stop them making a lot of other innocent people's lives miserable.
I don't disagree with any of that, but taking puerile glee in people burning to death is just pathetic. These aren't nice people who made one bad decision, they are people who have no respect for anything or anybody, who view everyone else as a potential victim and only differentiate between them based on how easy it would be to take from them and how much what they could take would be worth.
They also know no other way of life, from when they were toddlers they've committed crimes and see it as completely normal. Everyone else outside of their family and friends are over-privileged "mugs" who were gifted their shiny cars and nice houses by the same system that unfairly doesn't provide a wealthy lifestyle for them. Therefore they feel perfectly entitled to target the mugs as and when they feel like it. They deserve it.
Prison is also a way of life, growing up they knew family members and friends who were inside for short stints and came out saying it's no big deal and they were only caught once in a blue moon anyway. The justice system is in no way a deterrent and there is no chance of reform with the current set up.
It's therefore not surprising to me having lived amongst these people and been a victim of their crimes too many times that people feel that they are "scum" and them being killed in the pursuit of one of their crimes is a good thing. To be honest, I would tend to agree with them - the current system does nothing to stop them making a lot of other innocent people's lives miserable.
Just to say, I'm no apologist - but without knowing the history of these two fellas I'm unable to label them as 'scum'.
And by 'unfortunate' I mean it's unfortunate these people exist (well, no longer in this case but you know)
My original point was that nothing 'good' has happened here. The whole story is a sad one. That's all.
But, don't let me get in the way of your pitchforks and general in the air AK47 firing.
And by 'unfortunate' I mean it's unfortunate these people exist (well, no longer in this case but you know)
My original point was that nothing 'good' has happened here. The whole story is a sad one. That's all.
But, don't let me get in the way of your pitchforks and general in the air AK47 firing.
Colonial said:
I don't disagree with any of that, but taking puerile glee in people burning to death is just pathetic.
I see it as them just being satisfied with natural justice, probably after being a victim of crimes committed by people just like this and seeing absolutely no justice from our legal system.I like to believe that I'm a level-headed, upstanding member of the community and after seeing firsthand what these people are capable of, I would gladly have shot on sight any of the people who stole my old car, burgled two of the houses I lived in and my garage or abducted one of my mates at knife point.
MocMocaMoc said:
Just to say, I'm no apologist - but without knowing the history of these two fellas I'm unable to label them as 'scum'.
And by 'unfortunate' I mean it's unfortunate these people exist (well, no longer in this case but you know)
My original point was that nothing 'good' has happened here. The whole story is a sad one. That's all.
But, don't let me get in the way of your pitchforks and general in the air AK47 firing.
Decent people don't break into houses, threaten to shoot witnesses, steal cars and drive them at ridiculous speeds in built up areas, even occassionally.And by 'unfortunate' I mean it's unfortunate these people exist (well, no longer in this case but you know)
My original point was that nothing 'good' has happened here. The whole story is a sad one. That's all.
But, don't let me get in the way of your pitchforks and general in the air AK47 firing.
You don't need a detailed history to discern the type of personality that does the above. As it turns out, another poster did some digging and it seems one of the thieves has already served time for multiple armed robberies.
MocMocaMoc said:
Just to say, I'm no apologist - but without knowing the history of these two fellas I'm unable to label them as 'scum'.
And by 'unfortunate' I mean it's unfortunate these people exist (well, no longer in this case but you know)
And by 'unfortunate' I mean it's unfortunate these people exist (well, no longer in this case but you know)
MocMocaMoc said:
Unfortunate human beings... ? How's that?
Look, they were being dicks.
Even if I take your explanation of "unfortunate" at face value (which actually I'm struggling to do, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) then if threatening to kill innocent people with a knife is "being a dick" how would you describe Pol Pot? As "a bit naughty"? Or perhaps Hitler was just a "bit of a lad and a promising young fussballer"?Look, they were being dicks.
youngsyr said:
It strikes me that the apologists have no real experience of the sort of people who carry out these kind of crimes.
I've spent more than enough time in the company of this sort to know how they think and act.According to the apologists I'm clueless.
I don't share personal experiances of this sort with PH, its impossible to do so without coming across as a chav thug who's making things up. So I don't bother.
MocMocaMoc said:
I'm picturing you all firing your AK47's in to the air right now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnTtb1OFumcAndy Zarse said:
Even if I take your explanation of "unfortunate" at face value (which actually I'm struggling to do, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) then if threatening to kill innocent people with a knife is "being a dick" how would you describe Pol Pot? As "a bit naughty"? Or perhaps Hitler was just a "bit of a lad and a promising young fussballer"?
Are you equating ordering genocide with aggravated car theft? Or just not very good at analogies?StottyZr said:
According to the apologists I'm clueless.
Who is an apologist? Does not wishing a burning death on criminals make me an apologist? If so, I've not claimed anyone else is clueless. I've not seen anyone else claim this either. I just don't feel happy that this happened, nor happy that they burnt to death as a result.As an example of my apologist tendencies: I'd be far happier with the outcome if they'd been killed in self defence by the owner whilst attempting to rob him. That is something I can relate to; defending one's family directly. I'd be even more happy if they were already in prison for the full term they were previously sentenced and none of this happened.
aizvara said:
Andy Zarse said:
Even if I take your explanation of "unfortunate" at face value (which actually I'm struggling to do, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) then if threatening to kill innocent people with a knife is "being a dick" how would you describe Pol Pot? As "a bit naughty"? Or perhaps Hitler was just a "bit of a lad and a promising young fussballer"?
Are you equating ordering genocide with aggravated car theft? Or just not very good at analogies?Colonial said:
So your material goods are more important than life?
Sad.
Oh. I've had a car stolen and another broken into. It's s
t, no argument, but I don't want to see the people that did it die.
I do! two men broke into my house at 9.00am using guns to break through the glass, no messing about, my 16 year old son was in the house, fortunatly when he shouted down the stairs they ran, but were caught on several cctv cameras on other houses in the street.Sad.
Oh. I've had a car stolen and another broken into. It's s
t, no argument, but I don't want to see the people that did it die. the police never got them, even though they had very clear pictures of faces, i had to buy a very sophisticated alarm system, and my son is still uncomfortable being in the house alone. The Police are sure they were opportunists using the motorway to get in and out.
A slow painfull lingering death is too good for these people.
Edited by Adrian W on Wednesday 13th February 11:42
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff