Boris Johnson - WTF is he smoking?
Discussion
bobbylondonuk said:
BoJo is trying to get all public transport to go all electric and keep the private vehicles out of london as much as possible. The current congestion charge (nothing to do with congestion) exemption limits have incentivised people to buy hybrids and diesels and still drive into london for free.
The only way to reduce traffic and pollution is to reduce the levels of free entry. its not rocket science. Yes that means all of us will be screwed over. But what other alternate plan is there to reducetraffic and pollution in london?
Why does traffic and pollution need reducing? Anyone who thinks London is more polluted than it used to be is wrong.The only way to reduce traffic and pollution is to reduce the levels of free entry. its not rocket science. Yes that means all of us will be screwed over. But what other alternate plan is there to reducetraffic and pollution in london?
DJRC said:
I have 2 thoughts on this:
1. I kinda like the idea of a less polluted central London and a less car friendly zone. Not very ph, but true Im afraid. Frankly I f
king loathe cars in the town traffic yes, private cars no. Lived around the area for 10yrs, never needed a car once in the place, in fact I always point blank resisted driving into London. Train and tube only.
2. Nobody else but me think its bloody unlikely BoJo will still be Mayor in 2020?
So you live in Central London and don't need a car so nobody should be able to drive in London.1. I kinda like the idea of a less polluted central London and a less car friendly zone. Not very ph, but true Im afraid. Frankly I f
king loathe cars in the town traffic yes, private cars no. Lived around the area for 10yrs, never needed a car once in the place, in fact I always point blank resisted driving into London. Train and tube only.2. Nobody else but me think its bloody unlikely BoJo will still be Mayor in 2020?
Slightly warped logic isn't it?
Devil2575 said:
CRA2Y said:
It's a deterrent punishement for being poor - fine them again and again until they get motivated to be less poor!
Are you for real?Many people who do low paid work that the country needs are poor.
Refuse collectors, cleaners, security guards. All jobs that society needs and all that pay low wages.
you must have missed out.Refuse collectors in Brum earn an average £32k and some a lot more.
http://www.birminghampost.net/news/west-midlands-n...
Contract cleaners and the least secure security guards may well be on NMW. Presumably they have no wish to upskill.
MarshPhantom said:
bobbylondonuk said:
BoJo is trying to get all public transport to go all electric and keep the private vehicles out of london as much as possible. The current congestion charge (nothing to do with congestion) exemption limits have incentivised people to buy hybrids and diesels and still drive into london for free.
The only way to reduce traffic and pollution is to reduce the levels of free entry. its not rocket science. Yes that means all of us will be screwed over. But what other alternate plan is there to reducetraffic and pollution in london?
Why does traffic and pollution need reducing? Anyone who thinks London is more polluted than it used to be is wrong.The only way to reduce traffic and pollution is to reduce the levels of free entry. its not rocket science. Yes that means all of us will be screwed over. But what other alternate plan is there to reducetraffic and pollution in london?
MarshPhantom said:
DJRC said:
I have 2 thoughts on this:
1. I kinda like the idea of a less polluted central London and a less car friendly zone. Not very ph, but true Im afraid. Frankly I fking loathe cars in the town traffic yes, private cars no. Lived around the area for 10yrs, never needed a car once in the place, in fact I always point blank resisted driving into London. Train and tube only.
2. Nobody else but me think its bloody unlikely BoJo will still be Mayor in 2020?
So you live in Central London and don't need a car so nobody should be able to drive in London.1. I kinda like the idea of a less polluted central London and a less car friendly zone. Not very ph, but true Im afraid. Frankly I f
king loathe cars in the town traffic yes, private cars no. Lived around the area for 10yrs, never needed a car once in the place, in fact I always point blank resisted driving into London. Train and tube only.2. Nobody else but me think its bloody unlikely BoJo will still be Mayor in 2020?
Slightly warped logic isn't it?
Cars in the centre of cities almost never make them a better place. Actually lets turn that round, car free town/city centres are infinately better places to spend time as a human being.
Commercial traffic needs to be there, private rarely does. A decent urban transport system should be able to take care of private needs. It does elsewhere quite efficiently.
turbobloke said:
Contract cleaners and the least secure security guards may well be on NMW. Presumably they have no wish to upskill.
What if everyone on low wages chose to/were capable of upskilling.Would they all get better paid jobs?
Would the requirement for the jobs they were doing disappear?
Society needs these jobs filling in order to function they way we wish and everyone suddenly getting more qualifications does not mean everyone gets a better paid job.
All that would happen is that people would do low paid jobs would have more qualifications or they would be filled by imigrants.
Even if we shipped out every single unemployed person there will always be poor as long as there are employers who pay low wages, regardless of how much upskilling anyone does.
Society requires people to do the jobs and employers pay low wages.
Edited by Devil2575 on Thursday 14th February 09:50
turbobloke said:
If you haven't heard of the Conservative policy of fining the poor to motivate them to be less poor, presumably you haven't heard of the PH payments system you must have missed out.
Refuse collectors in Brum earn an average £32k and some a lot more.
http://www.birminghampost.net/news/west-midlands-n...
Contract cleaners and the least secure security guards may well be on NMW. Presumably they have no wish to upskill.
The original point was about low paid workers in London and how taxing travel disproportionately affects them, you cite an article about refuse collectors in Brum, to highlight what exactly? Possibly the worst example of selective data I have seen on here, bearing little or no relevance to the thread at all, excellent PHing. you must have missed out.Refuse collectors in Brum earn an average £32k and some a lot more.
http://www.birminghampost.net/news/west-midlands-n...
Contract cleaners and the least secure security guards may well be on NMW. Presumably they have no wish to upskill.
Devil2575 said:
turbobloke said:
Contract cleaners and the least secure security guards may well be on NMW. Presumably they have no wish to upskill.
What if everyone on low wages chose to/were capable of upskilling.Would they all get better paid jobs?
Would the requirement for the jobs they were doing disappear?
Devil2575 said:
Society needs these jobs filling in order to function they way we wish and everyone suddenly getting more qualifications does not mean everyone gets a better paid job.
The only mention of everyone was by you.In terms of low-skill jobs, technology is removing them slowly but surely, as such upskilling is a good idea. There will always be a tier of low-paid jobs but these will require some new low-level skills.
Devil2575 said:
Even if we shipped out every single unemployed person there will always be poor as long as there are employers who pay low wages, regardless of how much upskilling anyone does.
Society requires people to do the jobs and employers pay low wages.
Society doesn't require anything it's a concept not an employer. The marketplace determines wages, as such if people have skills that are in demand they will earn more than if they have no skills. Upskilling is a good idea. What's the alternative? Emoting while patting the low-skilled on the head and offering sympathy for their plight as 'victims of society' (not) isn't much of a solution.Society requires people to do the jobs and employers pay low wages.
Meanwhile Boris is presumably still smoking and the idea is still nuts.
Blue62 said:
The original point was about low paid workers in London and how taxing travel disproportionately affects them, you cite an article about refuse collectors in Brum, to highlight what exactly? Possibly the worst example of selective data I have seen on here, bearing little or no relevance to the thread at all, excellent PHing.
The reply I offered was to the post I replied to. Simple enough as a concept, but too tricky for some labouring and failing to score points.MarshPhantom said:
Why does traffic and pollution need reducing? Anyone who thinks London is more polluted than it used to be is wrong.
London may not be more polluted that it used to be but that doesn't mean that London and many other urban centres with heavy traffic have levels of pollution that should be reduced.There is a specific problem with diesel engines and Nitrogen oxides in urban areas where technology to reduce emissions does not work very well.
Devil2575 said:
MarshPhantom said:
Why does traffic and pollution need reducing? Anyone who thinks London is more polluted than it used to be is wrong.
London may not be more polluted that it used to be but that doesn't mean that London and many other urban centres with heavy traffic have levels of pollution that should be reduced.There is a specific problem with diesel engines and Nitrogen oxides in urban areas where technology to reduce emissions does not work very well.
The worst pollutant in cities arises from large diesel engines in stop-start buses namely 3-NBA. Nobody in officialdumb is interested in looking too deeply at the problem since it runs counter to the politically correct green myths about public transport and may even lead to class actions against bus operators for significant numbers of lung and liver carcinomas.
turbobloke said:
Society doesn't require anything it's a concept not an employer. The marketplace determines wages, as such if people have skills that are in demand they will earn more than if they have no skills. Upskilling is a good idea. What's the alternative? Emoting while patting the low-skilled on the head and offering sympathy for their plight as 'victims of society' (not) isn't much of a solution.
In order for our society to function as we would wish it does reqyuire that certain jobs are carried out.For example, without Police our society would not function as we would wish.
The alternative is paying a fair wage for people who work hard.
These people aren't victims of society, they are victims of the market.
turbobloke said:
Quite so, buses are the worst offenders, £1m trophy buses running on hydrogen not included.
The worst pollutant in cities arises from large diesel engines in stop-start buses namely 3-NBA. Nobody in officialdumb is interested in looking too deeply at the problem since it runs counter to the politically correct green myths about public transport and may even lead to class actions against bus operators for significant numbers of lung and liver carcinomas.
Interesting.The worst pollutant in cities arises from large diesel engines in stop-start buses namely 3-NBA. Nobody in officialdumb is interested in looking too deeply at the problem since it runs counter to the politically correct green myths about public transport and may even lead to class actions against bus operators for significant numbers of lung and liver carcinomas.
So do you think that a bus with 30 people on board emits more harmful pollutants that 30 cars each with 1 person in?
Large numbers of internal combusution powered vehicles of any kind in an urban environment were traffic levels result in low speeds and long periods stationary is not a good idea.
To be honest, having been to London countless times, the idea of driving in the congestion charge zone never crossed my mind. It takes so long to drive anywhere that i've always used public transport or walked. If I lived in London i'd ride a bike. My Brother in law lives in a appartment in central London and he sold his car a long time ago.
DJRC said:
MarshPhantom said:
DJRC said:
I have 2 thoughts on this:
1. I kinda like the idea of a less polluted central London and a less car friendly zone. Not very ph, but true Im afraid. Frankly I fking loathe cars in the town traffic yes, private cars no. Lived around the area for 10yrs, never needed a car once in the place, in fact I always point blank resisted driving into London. Train and tube only.
2. Nobody else but me think its bloody unlikely BoJo will still be Mayor in 2020?
So you live in Central London and don't need a car so nobody should be able to drive in London.1. I kinda like the idea of a less polluted central London and a less car friendly zone. Not very ph, but true Im afraid. Frankly I f
king loathe cars in the town traffic yes, private cars no. Lived around the area for 10yrs, never needed a car once in the place, in fact I always point blank resisted driving into London. Train and tube only.2. Nobody else but me think its bloody unlikely BoJo will still be Mayor in 2020?
Slightly warped logic isn't it?
Cars in the centre of cities almost never make them a better place. Actually lets turn that round, car free town/city centres are infinately better places to spend time as a human being.
Commercial traffic needs to be there, private rarely does. A decent urban transport system should be able to take care of private needs. It does elsewhere quite efficiently.
Re. car free towns being better, I couldn't disagree more. The grimmest places I can think of have pedestrianised town centres. Cars bring people and life to a city.
MarshPhantom said:
DJRC said:
MarshPhantom said:
DJRC said:
I have 2 thoughts on this:
1. I kinda like the idea of a less polluted central London and a less car friendly zone. Not very ph, but true Im afraid. Frankly I fking loathe cars in the town traffic yes, private cars no. Lived around the area for 10yrs, never needed a car once in the place, in fact I always point blank resisted driving into London. Train and tube only.
2. Nobody else but me think its bloody unlikely BoJo will still be Mayor in 2020?
So you live in Central London and don't need a car so nobody should be able to drive in London.1. I kinda like the idea of a less polluted central London and a less car friendly zone. Not very ph, but true Im afraid. Frankly I f
king loathe cars in the town traffic yes, private cars no. Lived around the area for 10yrs, never needed a car once in the place, in fact I always point blank resisted driving into London. Train and tube only.2. Nobody else but me think its bloody unlikely BoJo will still be Mayor in 2020?
Slightly warped logic isn't it?
Cars in the centre of cities almost never make them a better place. Actually lets turn that round, car free town/city centres are infinately better places to spend time as a human being.
Commercial traffic needs to be there, private rarely does. A decent urban transport system should be able to take care of private needs. It does elsewhere quite efficiently.
Re. car free towns being better, I couldn't disagree more. The grimmest places I can think of have pedestrianised town centres. Cars bring people and life to a city.
While sustaining the economic well-being of those town centres, along with the economic well-being, quality of life and health of the car occupants.
People making journeys know better than minions in officialdumb what the best mode of transport for their journeys will be.
Smoking powerful dope isn't really a sifficient explanation for the daft ideas we get from the dopes in politics.
MarshPhantom said:
Re. car free towns being better, I couldn't disagree more. The grimmest places I can think of have pedestrianised town centres. Cars bring people and life to a city.
Cars create danger for pedestrians, pollute and jam the place up.People bring life to a city, not cars.
Devil2575 said:
MarshPhantom said:
Re. car free towns being better, I couldn't disagree more. The grimmest places I can think of have pedestrianised town centres. Cars bring people and life to a city.
Cars create danger for pedestrians, pollute and jam the place up.People bring life to a city, not cars.
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