mansion tax

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Discussion

Newc

1,846 posts

181 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
Not mansions:







audidoody

8,597 posts

255 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
santona1937 said:
you just do not get it do you?
Well, you were doing fairly well trying to make your point until you invoked that meaningless cliche which is usually the last gasp from someone who has lost the argument.


Cleggie: "Nigel Farage just doesn't get it

Farage: "Nick Clegg doesn't get it"

Cameron: "What the Labour Party doesn't get is this ..."

Millie: "I'm afraid after four years in Government this Government just doesn't get it"

You'll be soon banging on about "hard working families" , those with the "broadest shoulders" and that a tax on the middle class is the "right thing to do"

You see

You just don't get it.


Edited by audidoody on Friday 18th April 16:32

98elise

26,381 posts

160 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
santona1937 said:
you just do not get it do you?
there are a lot of folks who think you are just wrong, perhaps the majority, and if it is not the majority it is certainly a large percentage. And when they vote to put policies like this into place you standing on the ramparts shouting, "but you are wrong, these are the politics of envy,of racism, of stupidity, this way leads to economic decline," etc etc, is not going to sway them one bit.
It would be far better to address their concerns now in a way that is acceptable to everyone, and not just to the "striver" in society.
The majority of people would like to see sucessful/wealthy people taxed to the hilt, even if it didn't raise a penny in extra revenue.

Everyone in this country is free to build a business, create wealth etc. ordinary people everywhere benefit from this. If the is no reward from success, they why would people bother. I've had a couple of goes at starting businesses, and have got to the point of employing people. I've worked for no wages at times, and have put our life savings on the line. If there were no hope of bettering myself from it then I wouldn't have bothered.


Justayellowbadge

37,057 posts

241 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
In case you haven't seen it, this solution to the UK's ills, taken from the rich/poor thread, may be illuminating.


santona1937 said:
Tax wealth not income. Include pensioners.
Tax the profit on the sale of primary residences.
Raise the upper tax limit to 75% ( taxing wealth not income)
Raise inheritance tax
Put all schools under state control
Bring in a proper and working system of technical education ( I worked on the development of Modern Apprenticeships and for a lot of industries they are a joke)
Mandate a CEO/ Floor worker maximum spread in industries that do not manufacture, such as finance.
Raise the minimum wage to a regionally based living wage.
Require that companies that use zero hours contracts pay a 10% of amount earned annual bonus to staff on such contracts.
Tax cars on mileage per annum.
Reverse the conditions for new house builds, so new developments need to be 75% affordable housing and 25% at whatever the developer feels they can charge.
Disallow benefits to those who have not paid a certain amount of NI with exemptions for those who are physically unable to work
Ban transfer pricing in international companies
Lower Corporation tax but require that directors of any company doing business in the UK are annually personally liable for losses incurred without limitation
Remove all benefits from anyone working more than 16 hours a week.



I promise, this wasn't an answer to a 'How does Britain win a Zimbabwe fancy dress competition?' question.

ClaphamGT3

11,269 posts

242 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
santona1937 said:
you just do not get it do you?
there are a lot of folks who think you are just wrong, perhaps the majority, and if it is not the majority it is certainly a large percentage. And when they vote to put policies like this into place you standing on the ramparts shouting, "but you are wrong, these are the politics of envy,of racism, of stupidity, this way leads to economic decline," etc etc, is not going to sway them one bit.
It would be far better to address their concerns now in a way that is acceptable to everyone, and not just to the "striver" in society.
Ah yes; here we have it - the age old condescension of the educated socialist.

What people like you don't get is that the people that you think represent the majority are just a small but vocal minority. Most people in the UK are aspirational and inclined to congratulate people on their legitimate success; they like to see people get on and do well and try to do so themselves. Socialists hate this of course, not just because it offends their warped conception of how they think things 'should' be but because it reminds them that the majority of people in this country have rumbled the fact that they are better at running their lives and securing their well-being than the state could ever be.

NoNeed

15,137 posts

199 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
santona1937 said:
most folks see politicians of all flavours riding a gravy train, see that a few select public schools produce those in power, see that Cam and Osb et al, who are not poor by any standards are also on that gravy train, see bankers ( who they feel caused this mess) earning loadsamoney and not really paying the price for what they view as bringing this country to its knees, and they want the wealthy to pay a price. And to an awful lot of folks outside London anyone living in a £2m house is very rich, and part of that gravy train and should be brought to justice for what they have done. A mansion tax seems to them a good idea. REgardless of the facts about who is rich or not, who caused the current demise of the UK, or who is really on that gravy train. And nothing anyone who earns a lot of money ( over 60-100K a year) says is going to change that view.
So how do Balls and millipede figure in all of your assertions?

In balls case he had a very good private education both went to oxford both praised the bankers none stop pre-2008 none spoke out when knighthoods were being handed out to those in charge of banks and both had a prominent position in the government that as you say brought the country to it's knees.


I give thanks that we have the very clever George and his mate dave in charge of the re-building project, those other tts should never be trusted anywhere near parliament let alone the cabinet ever
again.

turbobloke

103,748 posts

259 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
santona1937 said:
you just do not get it do you?

. . .

It would be far better to address their concerns now in a way that is acceptable to everyone, and not just to the "striver" in society.
Whilst you may well be right as far as that goes...
Not a chance, santona1937 wasn't elected by the envyist masses to post on PH, it's voluntary work. There are plenty of people with concerns and those who won't inherit the earth in stolen cars are smaller in number and influence than claimed. Take the London (etc) riots, you have to wonder if the young middle class Wolfie Smith wannabes making war on facebook rather than PH are out of jail yet from their longer than expected sentences arising from faster than usual processing.

Justayellowbadge said:
In case you haven't seen it, this solution to the UK's ills, taken from the rich/poor thread, may be illuminating.

santona1937 said:

The List That Gives A Laugh A Line
I promise, this wasn't an answer to a 'How does Britain win a Zimbabwe fancy dress competition?' question.
hehe

No but you could be forgiven for thinking so.

ClaphamGT3 said:
santona1937 said:
you just do not get it do you? Etc.
Ah yes; here we have it - the age old condescension of the educated socialist.

What people like you don't get is that the people that you think represent the majority are just a small but vocal minority.
Exactly.

ClaphamGT3 said:
Most people in the UK are aspirational and inclined to congratulate people on their legitimate success; they like to see people get on and do well and try to do so themselves. Socialists hate this of course, not just because it offends their warped conception of how they think things 'should' be but because it reminds them that the majority of people in this country have rumbled the fact that they are better at running their lives and securing their well-being than the state could ever be.
yes

You'd think that the loony left would have been rumbled long ago as the rank failure it actually is when it comes to eradicating poverty and wealth gaps. Over 100 stealth taxes and the hot air of fine words followed by failure and a national car crash economic mess (as usual). If some of the links below have moved the articles should still be found easily enough.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politic...
Gap between rich and poor has widened under Labour.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/jun/11/soci...
Child and Pensioner poverty up under Labour.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2182547/Inequality...
Inequality worse under Labour than under Thatcher.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/gul...
Gulf between rich and poor cities widens under Labour.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews...
Education gap for poorest pupils widens under Labour.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews...
Education failures due to Labour prioritising social inclusion.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews...
Social mobility in England lags behind other countries under Labour.

Who on planet earth with a working brain could think that voting Labour will help the poor and as for the notion of a mansion tax doing anything it's space cadet territory.

Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

245 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
What do governments tax? Value

Where's all the value in UK? Property

It's inevitable that property taxes will rise.

It looks equally inevitable that owners of multiple properties will be the softest target.....

NoNeed

15,137 posts

199 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
Ozzie Osmond said:
What do governments tax? Value

Where's all the value in UK? Property

It's inevitable that property taxes will rise.

It looks equally inevitable that owners of multiple properties will be the softest target.....
So if we had a bedroom tax (yes I know) you would be happy with that?

turbobloke

103,748 posts

259 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
NoNeed said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
What do governments tax? Value

Where's all the value in UK? Property

It's inevitable that property taxes will rise.

It looks equally inevitable that owners of multiple properties will be the softest target.....
So if we had a bedroom tax (yes I know) you would be happy with that?
Or a window tax. Worked well last time.

RYH64E

7,960 posts

243 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
Newc said:
Mansions:
Newc said:
Not mansions:
Good point, well made. Clearly demonstrates the difference between property values in different areas, and the lunacy of measuring wealth by assessing the current monetary value of a family home.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
yes

You'd think that the loony left would have been rumbled long ago as the rank failure it actually is when it comes to eradicating poverty and wealth gaps. Over 100 stealth taxes and the hot air of fine words followed by failure and a national car crash economic mess (as usual). If some of the links below have moved the articles should still be found easily enough.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politic...
Gap between rich and poor has widened under Labour.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/jun/11/soci...
Child and Pensioner poverty up under Labour.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2182547/Inequality...
Inequality worse under Labour than under Thatcher.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/gul...
Gulf between rich and poor cities widens under Labour.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews...
Education gap for poorest pupils widens under Labour.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews...
Education failures due to Labour prioritising social inclusion.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews...
Social mobility in England lags behind other countries under Labour.

Who on planet earth with a working brain could think that voting Labour will help the poor and as for the notion of a mansion tax doing anything it's space cadet territory.
Got Labour introducing tuition fees on there? Doesn't take a genius to work out why they don't want their traditional voters to get an education.

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
RYH64E said:
Good point, well made. Clearly demonstrates the difference between property values in different areas, and the lunacy of measuring wealth by assessing the current monetary value of a family home.
Easy Solution (not saying I would agree with it), Tax the value of second homes.

Thus, only second home owners would pay any tax on property. I am sure our MPs would agree to this................

McWigglebum4th

32,414 posts

203 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
RYH64E said:
Newc said:
Mansions:
Newc said:
Not mansions:
Good point, well made. Clearly demonstrates the difference between property values in different areas, and the lunacy of measuring wealth by assessing the current monetary value of a family home.
And demonstrates how stupid you are to live in london

ClaphamGT3

11,269 posts

242 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
McWigglebum4th said:
RYH64E said:
Newc said:
Mansions:
Newc said:
Not mansions:
Good point, well made. Clearly demonstrates the difference between property values in different areas, and the lunacy of measuring wealth by assessing the current monetary value of a family home.
And demonstrates how stupid you are to live in london
Until global player investment banks, law firms, property consultancies, accountancy firms, insurance companies etc start routinely headquartering themselves in rural Norfolk/Herefordshire/Cumbria/Warwickshire, many of us would be rather stupid not to live in London

Cheib

23,114 posts

174 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
Newc said:
Not mansions:






That puts things into perspective.

The reality is that the people who libe in the "not mansions" are probably all wealthier than those that live in the mansions. All of those houses would cost an absolute fortune to maintain...when you include an annual allowance for major repairs etc those non mansions probably all cost close to six figures to maintain.

If they want to go after the wealthy they need to go after people that own the most expensive properties in a given area or those that own second or third homes that are rented out etc

RYH64E

7,960 posts

243 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
ClaphamGT3 said:
McWigglebum4th said:
RYH64E said:
Newc said:
Mansions:
Newc said:
Not mansions:
Good point, well made. Clearly demonstrates the difference between property values in different areas, and the lunacy of measuring wealth by assessing the current monetary value of a family home.
And demonstrates how stupid you are to live in london
Until global player investment banks, law firms, property consultancies, accountancy firms, insurance companies etc start routinely headquartering themselves in rural Norfolk/Herefordshire/Cumbria/Warwickshire, many of us would be rather stupid not to live in London
So the choice is a) first pay rip off London house prices then pay extra mansion tax from whatever money you have left (if any), or b) buy a nice house for decent money out in the sticks and not be taxed for the privilege. As a dweller in the sticks, it makes perfect sense to me.


anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
The whole idea is nonsense.

Either you have an asset tax or you don't. The idea of an asset tax on only certain assets - those that can't be moved - is inept. Place an asset tax on overall worth > £2m and watch moveable assets fly out of the country. Oops.

But *all* land/houses, shares in British companies could be taxed as immoveable. So why just target first homes of a particular value? Makes no sense and is not supported by any principle.

If a Govt really wanted a slice of the UK property market, the way to get it would be to remove the CGT exemption on principal private residences, and/or ramp up SLDT even more. But mass effect = mass vote loser, esp when messing with a mass of Englishmen's castles.

IroningMan

10,154 posts

245 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
I'm not sure why anyone is wasting keystrokes trying to find a workable solution or a practical, logical justification: all that matters is that the idea is vote worthy - and consequences be damned.

Justayellowbadge

37,057 posts

241 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
IroningMan said:
I'm not sure why anyone is wasting keystrokes trying to find a workable solution or a practical, logical justification: all that matters is that the idea is vote worthy - and consequences be damned.
Even the LibDems have realised it isn't voteworthy.

The cynic might wonder if it is precisely their core vote in the capital who have seen their homes increase above 2m in the last couple of years...