George Galloway being a cocksocket again

[jakesmith]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Intelligence has never been his forte. But I tend to want actual evidence before branding people as racists / anti Semites, even people as horrible as George Galloway.

You'll never see it if you don't want to see it - plenty of people defend Corbyn as not being antisemitic despite him offending almost every Jew in the UK
Was Galloway's tweet antisemitic? Well I can see the argument for 'not technically'. Is he antisemitic? I believe so and therefor I look at the tweet through that lens as that is what motivated him to say it.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

jakesmith said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Intelligence has never been his forte. But I tend to want actual evidence before branding people as racists / anti Semites, even people as horrible as George Galloway.

You'll never see it if you don't want to see it - plenty of people defend Corbyn as not being antisemitic despite him offending almost every Jew in the UK
Was Galloway's tweet antisemitic? Well I can see the argument for 'not technically'. Is he antisemitic? I believe so and therefor I look at the tweet through that lens as that is what motivated him to say it.

Just because people are offended doesn't make them right. Is GG anti Semitic? He may well be, but I've not seen any evidence of it. I've seen a lot of accusations made against him after he's taken an anti Israel stance, as in this case.

[NoNeed]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

jakesmith said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Intelligence has never been his forte. But I tend to want actual evidence before branding people as racists / anti Semites, even people as horrible as George Galloway.

You'll never see it if you don't want to see it - plenty of people defend Corbyn as not being antisemitic despite him offending almost every Jew in the UK
Was Galloway's tweet antisemitic? Well I can see the argument for 'not technically'. Is he antisemitic? I believe so and therefor I look at the tweet through that lens as that is what motivated him to say it.

Just because people are offended doesn't make them right. Is GG anti Semitic? He may well be, but I've not seen any evidence of it. I've seen a lot of accusations made against him after he's taken an anti Israel stance, as in this case.

Its lime saying is tommy robinsaon racist, you know he is but because he say islam instead of Pakistani, george says israrl instead of jew but we know what he means because how how he has laballed jewish bankers and media in the past.

[franki68]

NoNeed said:

Its lime saying is tommy robinsaon racist, you know he is but because he say islam instead of Pakistani, george says israrl instead of jew but we know what he means because how how he has laballed jewish bankers and media in the past.

He uses the code word for Jew ‘Zionist ‘
Aside from which he is an ardent Hamas supporter ,and we know their objective .

[Countdown]

Gary C said:

Its a difficult and emotive subject with fine distinctions

But we MUST not allow critisism of Israel as a country and the actions of its government be classed as anti-semitism. That path is a dangerous one.

We've already travelled a fair distance down that path. Any opposition to the actions of the Israeli Govt is deliberately conflated with anti-semitism. see above posts if you need further evidence.

Even when a jewish person does it they're labelled as "self-hating jews", as if their criticism of Israeli policies is a criticism of judaism.

[jakesmith]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Just because people are offended doesn't make them right. Is GG anti Semitic? He may well be, but I've not seen any evidence of it. I've seen a lot of accusations made against him after he's taken an anti Israel stance, as in this case.

Like I said you simply aren't looking - at all. He openly supports Hammas for starters, they are the most antisemitic organisation since the Nazis.

You're minimising the experience of racism that people have had to suffer at the hands of biggots, it's a little bit more than 'people being offended', if the entire community of a country find something to be racist against them I don't really see that it's your place to tell them that it's just offensive and not racist. Those pesky offended Jews!

Would you pass off making women in the workplace feel uncomfortable with derogatory, suggestive or otherwise inappropriate remarks and behaviour, as just a bit of banter, no harm meant etc?

[DocJock]

Or perhaps you are looking too hard, determined to find some way of classing his statement as anti-semitic.

Twig is correct, the statement is anti-Israel, but that does not necessarily make it anti-semitic. His support for Hamas still does not make the statement anti-semitic.

[A Winner Is You]

DocJock said:

His support for Hamas still does not make the statement anti-semitic.

If someone supported the Aryan Nations, would it not be fair to call them a racist?

[DocJock]

I did not say that GG is not a racist.

Just because someone is a racist, it does not make every statement they make a racist one. As in this case.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

jakesmith said:

Would you pass off making women in the workplace feel uncomfortable with derogatory, suggestive or otherwise inappropriate remarks and behaviour, as just a bit of banter, no harm meant etc?

No I wouldn't. But conversely, if I said Thatcher and May were the worst 2 PMs in living memory, I would not, by that statement alone, expect to be called a sexist. I might be a sexist, but that statement isn't sexist. I haven't said I think they were bad because they were women, I might genuinely think the miners' strike and Brexit were both handled very badly.

Now if my statement about Thatcher and May made the women feel uncomfortable and offended, then tough. Just because they are offended doesn't make them right.

[franki68]

Countdown said:

We've already travelled a fair distance down that path. Any opposition to the actions of the Israeli Govt is deliberately conflated with anti-semitism. see above posts if you need further evidence.

Even when a jewish person does it they're labelled as "self-hating jews", as if their criticism of Israeli policies is a criticism of judaism.

Those opposed to israel are equally guilty because your argument is all criticism of israel is valid and none of it is anti semitic ,which is utter nonsense.

Those opposed to Israel as I have mentioned previously often utilize language based on falsehoods deliberately to antagonize Jews ,these arguments stand up to no scrutiny whatsoever,(nazi comparisons ,genocide etc etc),this is blatant anti semitism .If someone told lies to offend muslims you would call that racism/bigotry ,and just because some of those telling the lies are jews does not mean it is not anti semitic,a jew telling an anti semitic joke does not make it less anti semitic.



Its complicated but it is also simple ,there are people who stupidly throw around accusations of anti semitism where there is non ,and there are also people who hide their anti semitism behind criticism of israel.

[franki68]

DocJock said:

Or perhaps you are looking too hard, determined to find some way of classing his statement as anti-semitic.

Twig is correct, the statement is anti-Israel, but that does not necessarily make it anti-semitic. His support for Hamas still does not make the statement anti-semitic.

It does not make the statement anti semitic but it shows he is anti semitic .

[TwigtheWonderkid]

franki68 said:

He uses the code word for Jew ‘Zionist ‘

I'm getting out of my depth here knowledge wise, but are all Jews Zionists? I thought Judaism was a religion, and Zionism was a political position.

If Zionist is a code word for Jew, is IRA supporter a code word for Catholic?

[franki68]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I'm getting out of my depth here knowledge wise, but are all Jews Zionists? I thought Judaism was a religion, and Zionism was a political position.

If Zionist is a code word for Jew, is IRA supporter a code word for Catholic?

Highly complicated but zionism has many different meanings to different people ,I would say I am a zionist but I oppose the current Government and the settlers in the west bank ,whereas for some zionism means the return of the area that was judea in bibilical times,so it is a very very broad political spectrum, grouping them together is like saying a conservative voter is a nazi.

A few years ago a survey asked a question to british jews 'are you a zionist' about 60% said yes,when they rephrased the question by utilizing the definition of zionism 'do you support the existence of a jewish state' 90% said yes. So on that basis that the overwhelming majority of british jews are zionists .Zionism was created in response to growing anti semitism throughout europe in the 19th century as a means for jews to not be persecuted.


Language is not static ,the way a word is used is more important than its literal definition.
It depends on what level of pedantry you want to go to,but think of it like this, the old tropes invented by the communists and nazis have just had the word Jew replaced with the word Zionist. 'the zionist media ' the zionist banks control the world' etc.

If you want to criticize Israel why not use the words 'Israeli government' 'israelis' etc .

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Thanks Frankie, that's pretty enlightening.

I though Zionist was the support of a Jewish state. That's something that, as I said earlier, I'm against, as I'm against Islamic Republics. So I'm an anti Zionist (as are 10% of Jews) but I don't think I'm anti Semitic. Jews should certainly be allowed to live in peace, wherever they wish, and if the population of a country just happens to be 90% Jewish, so what. Many countries are mainly catholic, or Muslim. Such is life. But I don't believe an actual state should have an endorsed religion. It should cater for the needs of the majority, whilst ensuring the safety and protection of minorities. If states were more effective in that, there'd be no anti-Semitism.

[LoonyTunes]

Getting back to the GG comment I truly believe he knew exactly what he was saying and knew that by saying it he was walking the line. In that respect it was anti-semitic as he knew he could be accused of it yet pressed ahead regardless. That maybe 2 spurs fans fly an Israeli flag (in support of the Yid Army) does not justify a snide broadcast comment as to why the rest of the Spurs fans should be denied the joy of winning a cup.

What about all of the Christians who support Spurs (and there will be x1,000 of those)...he insults their team because 2 fans fly an Israeli flag and that's a fair comment to make?

No. He knew exactly what he was doing.

Did he say similar about Real Madrid last season? Here's the Israeli flag been flown there:



Or at Ajax whose flag makes Spurs look puny...where was GG then?



Or at Glasgow Rangers, from his own country? Will he say it when Rangers play Celtic in a cup final?

[anonymous-user]

Galloway will definitely call Rangers out, and I am sure he has in the past.

I agree with your sentiment - over this he is like the new style "alt right" commentators that dance on the head of pin to get the wording "just so".

I would imagine some of his best friends are Jews, and that he is regularly seen shaking the hand af a man with ringlets, a big beard and a black hat.

[Biker 1]

franki68 said:

Those opposed to israel are equally guilty because your argument is all criticism of israel is valid and none of it is anti semitic ,which is utter nonsense.

Those opposed to Israel as I have mentioned previously often utilize language based on falsehoods deliberately to antagonize Jews ,these arguments stand up to no scrutiny whatsoever,(nazi comparisons ,genocide etc etc),this is blatant anti semitism .If someone told lies to offend muslims you would call that racism/bigotry ,and just because some of those telling the lies are jews does not mean it is not anti semitic,a jew telling an anti semitic joke does not make it less anti semitic.



Its complicated but it is also simple ,there are people who stupidly throw around accusations of anti semitism where there is non ,and there are also people who hide their anti semitism behind criticism of israel.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This.

We have Corbyn congratulating Khan on Eid yesterday - I wonder if he would extend equivalent greetings to a Jewish mayor of London??

[anonymous-user]

Biker 1 said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This.

We have Corbyn congratulating Khan on Eid yesterday - I wonder if he would extend equivalent greetings to a Jewish mayor of London??

If he was a Labour mayor, definitely.
Not if he was a Tory.

[Biker 1]

desolate said:

If he was a Labour mayor, definitely.
Not if he was a Tory.

Not sure there are many Jews who would want to join the Labour party at the moment......