George Galloway being a cocksocket again

[anonymous-user]

Biker 1 said:

Not sure there are many Jews who would want to join the Labour party at the moment......

No.
There are plenty left in it though and that wasn't the question.

[Biker 1]

desolate said:

No.
There are plenty left in it though and that wasn't the question.

I think in the hypothetical case of a Jewish London Labour mayor, Corbyn, Galloway & various others, would make a point of not wishing 'happy holidays' or similar to him/her.

[anonymous-user]

Biker 1 said:

I think in the hypothetical case of a Jewish London Labour mayor, Corbyn, Galloway & various others, would make a point of not wishing 'happy holidays' or similar to him/her.

I disagree.

[George Smiley]

Why is such a minority able to sway such political influence?

[anonymous-user]

George Smiley said:

Why is such a minority able to sway such political influence?

What do you mean by that?

[franki68]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Thanks Frankie, that's pretty enlightening.

I though Zionist was the support of a Jewish state. That's something that, as I said earlier, I'm against, as I'm against Islamic Republics. So I'm an anti Zionist (as are 10% of Jews) but I don't think I'm anti Semitic. Jews should certainly be allowed to live in peace, wherever they wish, and if the population of a country just happens to be 90% Jewish, so what. Many countries are mainly catholic, or Muslim. Such is life. But I don't believe an actual state should have an endorsed religion. It should cater for the needs of the majority, whilst ensuring the safety and protection of minorities. If states were more effective in that, there'd be no anti-Semitism.

Well it is in essence Zionism is supporting the right of Jews to self determination so you are right but it arose from anti semitism and the founders were quite prophetic as it turned out (although I’m not sure they envisaged hitler)

There are issues with anti semitism across Europe ,over 200,000 French Jews have left France in the last few years , that is why Zionism exists.Grouping all zionists as some sort of religious terrorists is no different from calling all Muslims terrorists because of the behaviour of a few.

[alfaman]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Thanks Frankie, that's pretty enlightening.

I though Zionist was the support of a Jewish state. That's something that, as I said earlier, I'm against, as I'm against Islamic Republics. So I'm an anti Zionist (as are 10% of Jews) but I don't think I'm anti Semitic. Jews should certainly be allowed to live in peace, wherever they wish, and if the population of a country just happens to be 90% Jewish, so what. Many countries are mainly catholic, or Muslim. Such is life. But I don't believe an actual state should have an endorsed religion. It should cater for the needs of the majority, whilst ensuring the safety and protection of minorities. If states were more effective in that, there'd be no anti-Semitism.

But what is actually wrong with having Israel as a country?

Interesting to compare and contrast Israel and Palestine:

Israel is a well functioning democracy where Christians and Arabs can live (though in a minority). And one can protest against the Govt.

Palestine is lawless intolerant State run by (arguably) a terrorist organisation .. intolerant of any dissent or disagreement ... which can be met my summary execution. Not much if any freedom for Christians or Jews in Palestine

[TeamD]

George Smiley said:

Why is such a minority able to sway such political influence?

Which minority?

[alfaman]

Biker 1 said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This.

We have Corbyn congratulating Khan on Eid yesterday - I wonder if he would extend equivalent greetings to a Jewish mayor of London??

Of course not - unless forced to to ‘save face’

Corbyn has gleefully courted many squalid individuals and organisations linked to terrorism and anti-Semitism.

It’s in his DNA as a Marxist

[Ken Figenus]

franki68 said:

Well it is in essence Zionism is supporting the right of Jews to self determination so you are right but it arose from anti semitism and the founders were quite prophetic as it turned out (although I’m not sure they envisaged hitler)

There are issues with anti semitism across Europe ,over 200,000 French Jews have left France in the last few years , that is why Zionism exists.Grouping all zionists as some sort of religious terrorists is no different from calling all Muslims terrorists because of the behaviour of a few.

I thought Zionism's central belief (and I haven't Wikipediad this, hence asking ) was in establishing a Jewish homeland where they could be safe from persecution and fear? Who would argue with that - especially given their sad history. The NON anti-semitic critique arises when they use Palestinians as target practice and keep stealing their land in violation of UN resolutions plus the hundred other sanctions/limits/restraints/oppression/power cuts/water cuts/dual standard legal system type things they do and thus create a hate filled loop. Action/reaction & repeat - but never blame them.

[dasigty]

alfaman said:

But what is actually wrong with having Israel as a country?

Interesting to compare and contrast Israel and Palestine:

Israel is a well functioning democracy where Christians and Arabs can live (though in a minority). And one can protest against the Govt.

Palestine is lawless intolerant State run by (arguably) a terrorist organisation .. intolerant of any dissent or disagreement ... which can be met my summary execution. Not much if any freedom for Christians or Jews in Palestine

Democracy ?, it was created by stealing the land at gun point from the natives.

How far would you go when you are robbed of your land by a bunch of thugs with tanks ?, shrug your shoulders and say "Never mind", dont be blaming the Palestinians for copying what was done to them while the world stood back and did f*ckall. Terrorism was the sten gang and irgun long before Hamas.

Not only is it stolen land, the thefts of more continues to this day, while the UN wrings its hands and does nothing.

[alfaman]

dasigty said:

Democracy ?, it was created by stealing the land at gun point from the natives.

How far would you go when you are robbed of your land by a bunch of thugs with tanks ?, shrug your shoulders and say "Never mind", dont be blaming the Palestinians for copying what was done to them while the world stood back and did f*ckall. Terrorism was the sten gang and irgun long before Hamas.

Not only is it stolen land, the thefts of more continues to this day, while the UN wrings its hands and does nothing.

Palestinians commit human rights abuses against their own people - gonna blame Israel for that too ?

[Ken Figenus]

alfaman said:

Palestinians commit human rights abuses against their own people - gonna blame Israel for that too ?

Bad sheet doesn't cancel someone else's worse sheet out - especially when when its David and Goliath.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

alfaman said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Thanks Frankie, that's pretty enlightening.

I though Zionist was the support of a Jewish state. That's something that, as I said earlier, I'm against, as I'm against Islamic Republics. So I'm an anti Zionist (as are 10% of Jews) but I don't think I'm anti Semitic. Jews should certainly be allowed to live in peace, wherever they wish, and if the population of a country just happens to be 90% Jewish, so what. Many countries are mainly catholic, or Muslim. Such is life. But I don't believe an actual state should have an endorsed religion. It should cater for the needs of the majority, whilst ensuring the safety and protection of minorities. If states were more effective in that, there'd be no anti-Semitism.

But what is actually wrong with having Israel as a country?

Interesting to compare and contrast Israel and Palestine:

Israel is a well functioning democracy where Christians and Arabs can live (though in a minority). And one can protest against the Govt.

Palestine is lawless intolerant State run by (arguably) a terrorist organisation .. intolerant of any dissent or disagreement ... which can be met my summary execution. Not much if any freedom for Christians or Jews in Palestine

Everything you say about Israel could / would be exactly the same if it was just a country called Israel, instead of the Jewish state of Israel. It's not exactly inclusive. What's good about a state religion, as opposed to a wall of separation between church and state?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

dasigty said:

Democracy ?, it was created by stealing the land at gun point from the natives.

So was the USA, Australia, New Zealand, most south American countries, much of Europe, Africa and Asia.

Over time, less and less people care.

[franki68]

dasigty said:

Democracy ?, it was created by stealing the land at gun point from the natives.

How far would you go when you are robbed of your land by a bunch of thugs with tanks ?, shrug your shoulders and say "Never mind", dont be blaming the Palestinians for copying what was done to them while the world stood back and did f*ckall. Terrorism was the sten gang and irgun long before Hamas.

Not only is it stolen land, the thefts of more continues to this day, while the UN wrings its hands and does nothing.

it’s been Covered before many times on here there is no point debating it as it goes round in circles but what you say is either wrong or a distortion of truth.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

franki68 said:

dasigty said:

Democracy ?, it was created by stealing the land at gun point from the natives.

How far would you go when you are robbed of your land by a bunch of thugs with tanks ?, shrug your shoulders and say "Never mind", dont be blaming the Palestinians for copying what was done to them while the world stood back and did f*ckall. Terrorism was the sten gang and irgun long before Hamas.

Not only is it stolen land, the thefts of more continues to this day, while the UN wrings its hands and does nothing.

it’s been Covered before many times on here there is no point debating it as it goes round in circles but what you say is either wrong or a distortion of truth.

"Stolen" is debatable, as rightly or wrongly, they thought it was genuinely theirs. Then, having stolen/acquired the land, they did more with it in 70 years than the previous occupants had done in thousands, turning it from a scrap of sandy wasteland into an irrigated and fertile land with cities and universities and art galleries etc.

Then, all offers to the previous occupants to do a deal to share the land, including an extremely generous offer in 1998, were rejected out of hand, as the previous owners just want the current owners dead, and nothing else will do.

Distortion of the truth is spot on. Yes, the Palestinians have had a raw deal, but there have been many opportunities for them to be pragmatic and move on, but no one takes more opportunities to miss opportunities than them.

When they learn to love their own kids more than they hate Israel, they might be able to move forward.

[jakesmith]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

jakesmith said:

Would you pass off making women in the workplace feel uncomfortable with derogatory, suggestive or otherwise inappropriate remarks and behaviour, as just a bit of banter, no harm meant etc?

No I wouldn't. But conversely, if I said Thatcher and May were the worst 2 PMs in living memory, I would not, by that statement alone, expect to be called a sexist. I might be a sexist, but that statement isn't sexist. I haven't said I think they were bad because they were women, I might genuinely think the miners' strike and Brexit were both handled very badly.

Now if my statement about Thatcher and May made the women feel uncomfortable and offended, then tough. Just because they are offended doesn't make them right.

And if you openly supported an organisation that said women should be destroyed, and then later that Theresa May and Thatcher were the worse PMs in living memory, your later statement would be seen in the context of the former

[dasigty]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

"Stolen" is debatable, as rightly or wrongly, they thought it was genuinely theirs. Then, having stolen/acquired the land, they did more with it in 70 years than the previous occupants had done in thousands, turning it from a scrap of sandy wasteland into an irrigated and fertile land with cities and universities and art galleries etc.

Then, all offers to the previous occupants to do a deal to share the land, including an extremely generous offer in 1998, were rejected out of hand, as the previous owners just want the current owners dead, and nothing else will do.

Distortion of the truth is spot on. Yes, the Palestinians have had a raw deal, but there have been many opportunities for them to be pragmatic and move on, but no one takes more opportunities to miss opportunities than them.

When they learn to love their own kids more than they hate Israel, they might be able to move forward.

So if I kill you and steal your house its ok if I claim god told me to do it ?, didn`t the same god say something along the lines of dont kill people and steal stuff ?. There goes the religious grounds argument.
Nor were most of the ones doing the stealing particularly believers, they were displaced and desperate people who had been through a de-humanising experience and did not care if it was right or wrong, they were mostly east European with little connection to Palestine recruited by fanatics.

Its easy to be pragmatic when you are not the one being robbed and murdered, nor has the robbery ever stopped, its a country under occupation.

[A Winner Is You]

dasigty said:

So if I kill you and steal your house its ok if I claim god told me to do it ?, didn`t the same god say something along the lines of dont kill people and steal stuff ?. There goes the religious grounds argument.
Nor were most of the ones doing the stealing particularly believers, they were displaced and desperate people who had been through a de-humanising experience and did not care if it was right or wrong, they were mostly east European with little connection to Palestine recruited by fanatics.

Its easy to be pragmatic when you are not the one being robbed and murdered, nor has the robbery ever stopped, its a country under occupation.

Does the Arab world not claim ownership on religious grounds as well? And why is it they do so little to help and improve the life of their Palestinian brothers, aside from supply them with weapons?