George Galloway being a cocksocket again
Discussion
dasigty said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
"Stolen" is debatable, as rightly or wrongly, they thought it was genuinely theirs. Then, having stolen/acquired the land, they did more with it in 70 years than the previous occupants had done in thousands, turning it from a scrap of sandy wasteland into an irrigated and fertile land with cities and universities and art galleries etc.
Then, all offers to the previous occupants to do a deal to share the land, including an extremely generous offer in 1998, were rejected out of hand, as the previous owners just want the current owners dead, and nothing else will do.
Distortion of the truth is spot on. Yes, the Palestinians have had a raw deal, but there have been many opportunities for them to be pragmatic and move on, but no one takes more opportunities to miss opportunities than them.
When they learn to love their own kids more than they hate Israel, they might be able to move forward.
So if I kill you and steal your house its ok if I claim god told me to do it ?, didn`t the same god say something along the lines of dont kill people and steal stuff ?. There goes the religious grounds argument.Then, all offers to the previous occupants to do a deal to share the land, including an extremely generous offer in 1998, were rejected out of hand, as the previous owners just want the current owners dead, and nothing else will do.
Distortion of the truth is spot on. Yes, the Palestinians have had a raw deal, but there have been many opportunities for them to be pragmatic and move on, but no one takes more opportunities to miss opportunities than them.
When they learn to love their own kids more than they hate Israel, they might be able to move forward.
Nor were most of the ones doing the stealing particularly believers, they were displaced and desperate people who had been through a de-humanising experience and did not care if it was right or wrong, they were mostly east European with little connection to Palestine recruited by fanatics.
Its easy to be pragmatic when you are not the one being robbed and murdered, nor has the robbery ever stopped, its a country under occupation.
A Winner Is You said:
dasigty said:
So if I kill you and steal your house its ok if I claim god told me to do it ?, didn`t the same god say something along the lines of dont kill people and steal stuff ?. There goes the religious grounds argument.
Nor were most of the ones doing the stealing particularly believers, they were displaced and desperate people who had been through a de-humanising experience and did not care if it was right or wrong, they were mostly east European with little connection to Palestine recruited by fanatics.
Its easy to be pragmatic when you are not the one being robbed and murdered, nor has the robbery ever stopped, its a country under occupation.
Does the Arab world not claim ownership on religious grounds as well? And why is it they do so little to help and improve the life of their Palestinian brothers, aside from supply them with weapons? Nor were most of the ones doing the stealing particularly believers, they were displaced and desperate people who had been through a de-humanising experience and did not care if it was right or wrong, they were mostly east European with little connection to Palestine recruited by fanatics.
Its easy to be pragmatic when you are not the one being robbed and murdered, nor has the robbery ever stopped, its a country under occupation.
dasigty said:
So if I kill you and steal your house its ok if I claim god told me to do it ?
dasigty said:
Its easy to be pragmatic when you are not the one being robbed and murdered, nor has the robbery ever stopped,
I think you'll find in your somewhat simplistic analogy of the robbery not stopping, that Isreal made further incursions to increase it's territory as a legitimate response to various invasions that aimed to obliterate it. This is a legitimate response to neighbours who attempt to conquer your land. Source: history. You'd also find that if the tunnels and rockets stopped, the lot of the Palestinians would improve. After all, it is not the Israeli government that has an official stated mission objective of killing all Palestinians. In fact, you'll find it is quite the other way around. Israel just wants to exist in peace on a tiny strip of desert, and doesn't have a desire to kill anyone.dasigty said:
its a country under occupation.
See above, that is a situation of their making. Many many attempts to make peace have been rejected out of sheer bloody minded stubbornness & of course not forgetting the fact that the likes of Arafat got very very rich on the back of the conflict so why would they want it to end.jakesmith said:
dasigty said:
So if I kill you and steal your house its ok if I claim god told me to do it ?
dasigty said:
Its easy to be pragmatic when you are not the one being robbed and murdered, nor has the robbery ever stopped,
I think you'll find in your somewhat simplistic analogy of the robbery not stopping, that Isreal made further incursions to increase it's territory as a legitimate response to various invasions that aimed to obliterate it. This is a legitimate response to neighbours who attempt to conquer your land. Source: history. You'd also find that if the tunnels and rockets stopped, the lot of the Palestinians would improve. After all, it is not the Israeli government that has an official stated mission objective of killing all Palestinians. In fact, you'll find it is quite the other way around. Israel just wants to exist in peace on a tiny strip of desert, and doesn't have a desire to kill anyone.dasigty said:
its a country under occupation.
See above, that is a situation of their making. Many many attempts to make peace have been rejected out of sheer bloody minded stubbornness & of course not forgetting the fact that the likes of Arafat got very very rich on the back of the conflict so why would they want it to end.Was the "Global community" the Irgun or the Sten gang ?, did they own the land taken from the people by force ?, how about you call it what it was, the nations who turned jews away before the war trying to salve a guilty conscience by turning a blind eye. Nor had the Palestinians any hand in the genocide, why not give them part of Germany or Italy ?.
Now you are straying into the land of the bullsh*ter, the west bank was and is part of a further land grab, and since when does an occupied people become "Invaders" anyway. by your own words you justify "defending your own land", what the f*ck do you think they are trying to do.
Its easy to make peace, get the f*ck out of the land you stole, that was the choice given to Saddam when he went into Kuwait with the full support of the UN. Lets talk about just how rich the people behind the land grab that became Israel got if you want to talk money as a motive.
George Galloway is not my cup of tea by any stretch of the imagination, but on his stance to refuse to talk to murderers and thieves until they at least stop doing it should be commended.
Edited by dasigty on Thursday 6th June 15:38
Edited by dasigty on Thursday 6th June 15:39
dasigty said:
Its easy to make peace, get the f*ck out of the land you stole
Love your nice easy solution, you are wasted working cleaning car windscreens at the lights, you should be a diplomat or something, in fact, all millenia-old conflicts can be solved in one stroke, by 'giving the land back'. Absolute piece of piss with no issues implementing it at all. How far back would you go and would you give your house back if, on inspecting your linage, it turned out it was at some point subject to some sort of unjust conquest? Could be tricky!dasigty said:
that was the choice given to Saddam when he went into Kuwait
You're drawing equivalence between the creation of the land of Israel, and Saddam's invasion of Kuwait! Brilliant. dasigty said:
George Galloway... should be commended.
I wouldn't hold your breath I'm afraid. In isolation I don’t think there’s anything racist or bigoted about his comments - it may be a silly or inaccurate thing to say but that doesn’t make it antisemitic.
However, given Galloway’s history and in particular his closeness to groups like Hamas, I think his critics may have a point here.
There’s nothing wrong with criticising or disliking Israel however those who constantly make a song and dance about Israel’s crimes yet say nothing about similar crimes taking place elsewhere in the region or world probably do have a bit of anti Jewish hatred and bigotry within them. Otherwise why single out one particular nation over others?
However, given Galloway’s history and in particular his closeness to groups like Hamas, I think his critics may have a point here.
There’s nothing wrong with criticising or disliking Israel however those who constantly make a song and dance about Israel’s crimes yet say nothing about similar crimes taking place elsewhere in the region or world probably do have a bit of anti Jewish hatred and bigotry within them. Otherwise why single out one particular nation over others?
BlackLabel said:
In isolation I don’t think there’s anything racist or bigoted about his comments - it may be a silly or inaccurate thing to say but that doesn’t make it antisemitic.
However, given Galloway’s history and in particular his closeness to groups like Hamas, I think his critics may have a point here.
There’s nothing wrong with criticising or disliking Israel however those who constantly make a song and dance about Israel’s crimes yet say nothing about similar crimes taking place elsewhere in the region or world probably do have a bit of anti Jewish hatred and bigotry within them. Otherwise why single out one particular nation over others?
...or one particular football club...However, given Galloway’s history and in particular his closeness to groups like Hamas, I think his critics may have a point here.
There’s nothing wrong with criticising or disliking Israel however those who constantly make a song and dance about Israel’s crimes yet say nothing about similar crimes taking place elsewhere in the region or world probably do have a bit of anti Jewish hatred and bigotry within them. Otherwise why single out one particular nation over others?
NoNeed said:
So what right is there for palestine to exist?
It never has existed, as an independent nation state. It's always been under someone's thumb. Prior to Israel it was a British protectorate, before that part of the Ottoman empire, and going back to biblical times, under the Romans, probably part of wider Judea.There has never been an independent self governing country called Palestine.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
NoNeed said:
So what right is there for palestine to exist?
It never has existed, as an independent nation state. It's always been under someone's thumb. Prior to Israel it was a British protectorate, before that part of the Ottoman empire, and going back to biblical times, under the Romans, probably part of wider Judea.There has never been an independent self governing country called Palestine.
I have read the lengths israel have gone to in the past to secure peace, and every time it gets rejected and they have to suffer daily rocket attacks.
People that say Israel are in the wrong have just not read the history.
BlackLabel said:
In isolation I don’t think there’s anything racist or bigoted about his comments - it may be a silly or inaccurate thing to say but that doesn’t make it antisemitic.
However, given Galloway’s history and in particular his closeness to groups like Hamas, I think his critics may have a point here.
There’s nothing wrong with criticising or disliking Israel however those who constantly make a song and dance about Israel’s crimes yet say nothing about similar crimes taking place elsewhere in the region or world probably do have a bit of anti Jewish hatred and bigotry within them. Otherwise why single out one particular nation over others?
I think the reason why people sometimes don't protest about other regimes carrying out atrocities is because you rarely have people defending those regimes.However, given Galloway’s history and in particular his closeness to groups like Hamas, I think his critics may have a point here.
There’s nothing wrong with criticising or disliking Israel however those who constantly make a song and dance about Israel’s crimes yet say nothing about similar crimes taking place elsewhere in the region or world probably do have a bit of anti Jewish hatred and bigotry within them. Otherwise why single out one particular nation over others?
For example i think most people would say that Saudi Arabia/China/Russia are fairly barbaric and corrupt in terms of human rights abuses. Would anybody on here suggest that somehow they were entitled/justified in doing what they do?
Countdown said:
I think the reason why people sometimes don't protest about other regimes carrying out atrocities is because you rarely have people defending those regimes.
For example i think most people would say that Saudi Arabia/China/Russia are fairly barbaric and corrupt in terms of human rights abuses. Would anybody on here suggest that somehow they were entitled/justified in doing what they do?
You don't see pro-Israel marches, conferences, rallies or any other activity taking place anywhere in the UK though yet plenty of oppositionFor example i think most people would say that Saudi Arabia/China/Russia are fairly barbaric and corrupt in terms of human rights abuses. Would anybody on here suggest that somehow they were entitled/justified in doing what they do?
jakesmith said:
dasigty said:
Its easy to make peace, get the f*ck out of the land you stole
Love your nice easy solution, you are wasted working cleaning car windscreens at the lights, you should be a diplomat or something, in fact, all millenia-old conflicts can be solved in one stroke, by 'giving the land back'. Absolute piece of piss with no issues implementing it at all. How far back would you go and would you give your house back if, on inspecting your linage, it turned out it was at some point subject to some sort of unjust conquest? Could be tricky!dasigty said:
that was the choice given to Saddam when he went into Kuwait
You're drawing equivalence between the creation of the land of Israel, and Saddam's invasion of Kuwait! Brilliant. dasigty said:
George Galloway... should be commended.
I wouldn't hold your breath I'm afraid. dasigty said:
Not my nice easy solution, it was the one given to Saddam by the UN, as for the rest of your drivel, all it does is get you into a box marked arseh*le (As I am sure you have been told many times).
You do know nobody stole any land, don't you? it is still there as are the people that have inhabited it for centuries.There is no point being abusive to posters that seemingly have more knowledge on this subject than you, you would be better off asking questions.
NoNeed said:
You do know nobody stole any land, don't you? it is still there as are the people that have inhabited it for centuries.
There is no point being abusive to posters that seemingly have more knowledge on this subject than you, you would be better off asking questions.
No they are not, they were killed or forced off at gun point, perhaps you need to look up a few facts as its your knowledge that is sadly lacking.There is no point being abusive to posters that seemingly have more knowledge on this subject than you, you would be better off asking questions.
dasigty said:
Not my nice easy solution, it was the one given to Saddam by the UN, as for the rest of your drivel, all it does is get you into a box marked arseh*le (As I am sure you have been told many times).
Can you not express yourself or disagree without swearing and insults? Are you alright? It’s not bolstering your weak arguments I’m afraid. Just marks you out an a loon, interesting that you’re supporting Galloway here, widely also thought of as a lunatic by most normal thinking people.
I notice you don’t seem up to responding to any of my actual critiques of your deluded and rambling post. Just swearing and insults. It’s a sad case.
NoNeed said:
You do know nobody stole any land, don't you? it is still there as are the people that have inhabited it for centuries.
How many links could I post countering this falsehood?We (who have empathy) have no horse in this race but sympathise against the manipulative bully in a typically British way and because we would react in the same way if someone did the same to us - sniper killed our pebble throwing kids and bulldozed our homes to make way for theirs.
HOW many links could I pose showing this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDW4cWQHYms prep for building 550 zionist homes - flatten the Palestinians' ones first...
Seriously.
I'll just post one more - its the killing of an unarmed civilian that could pose no threat from afar and the sheer joy this creates in the IDF murderer and his mates. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb4tnP05jfg And if I was his father I too would rage and want revenge and justice rather than 'love my children more than I hate Israelis'.
This is objective condemnation as I believe the Jews SHOULD have a safe peaceful homeland and could have made Israel work given the Balfour setup - but they went way too far and dug themselves in with an arrogant indifference that only a superpower could backup... Devastating.
Ken Figenus said:
sniper killed our pebble throwing kids
You mean the kids that rush in numbers at border guards, kids who have been deliberately taken there by their parents as ‘the earth needs blood’, or maybe those who make networks of tunnels into Israel, who fire rockets indiscriminately, who attack farms and kill as many families as they sleep as possible, those ones? You’re grotesquely misrepresenting the situation
Ken Figenus said:
NoNeed said:
You do know nobody stole any land, don't you? it is still there as are the people that have inhabited it for centuries.
How many links could I post countering this falsehood?We (who have empathy) have no horse in this race but sympathise against the manipulative bully in a typically British way and because we would react in the same way if someone did the same to us - sniper killed our pebble throwing kids and bulldozed our homes to make way for theirs.
HOW many links could I pose showing this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDW4cWQHYms prep for building 550 zionist homes - flatten the Palestinians' ones first...
Seriously.
I'll just post one more - its the killing of an unarmed civilian that could pose no threat from afar and the sheer joy this creates in the IDF murderer and his mates. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb4tnP05jfg And if I was his father I too would rage and want revenge and justice rather than 'love my children more than I hate Israelis'.
This is objective condemnation as I believe the Jews SHOULD have a safe peaceful homeland and could have made Israel work given the Balfour setup - but they went way too far and dug themselves in with an arrogant indifference that only a superpower could backup... Devastating.
dasigty said:
NoNeed said:
You do know nobody stole any land, don't you? it is still there as are the people that have inhabited it for centuries.
There is no point being abusive to posters that seemingly have more knowledge on this subject than you, you would be better off asking questions.
No they are not, they were killed or forced off at gun point, perhaps you need to look up a few facts as its your knowledge that is sadly lacking.There is no point being abusive to posters that seemingly have more knowledge on this subject than you, you would be better off asking questions.
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