George Galloway being a cocksocket again

[jakesmith]

A Winner Is You said:

Imagine my shock

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/06/g...

Oh snap... another setback for Galloway's long due commendation!

[Ken Figenus]

jakesmith said:

You mean the kids that rush in numbers at border guards, kids who have been deliberately taken there by their parents as ‘the earth needs blood’, or maybe those who make networks of tunnels into Israel, who fire rockets indiscriminately, who attack farms and kill as many families as they sleep as possible, those ones?

You’re grotesquely misrepresenting the situation

I have no issue with genuine self defence and taking out combatants. NONE. That is any country's right. I have issues with justifying emptying a rifle magazine into a 13 yr old unarmed schoochirl and getting away with it scott free. Watchtower "A girl, about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death." Bang. And then the commander empties his mag into her already dead body... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/isra...

This site is a significant counterpoint as its run by veteran IDF soldiers sick of the cycle of death: https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/ They arent Anti Semitic either...

[jakesmith]

Ken Figenus said:

I have no issue with genuine self defence and taking out combatants. NONE. That is any country's right. I have issues with justifying emptying a rifle magazine into a 13 yr old unarmed schoochirl and getting away with it scott free. Watchtower "A girl, about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death." Bang. And then the commander empties his mag into her already dead body... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/isra...

This site is a significant counterpoint as its run by veteran IDF soldiers sick of the cycle of death: https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/ They arent Anti Semitic either...

And that is not how the entire conflict is characterised. It is not the Israelis firing thousands of rockets over. It is inevitable that this sort of thing happens in any armed conflict sadly look at Ireland. I don't see it as any more abhorrent than using a school or hospital to store weapons in the knowledge it will be targeted and vulnerable lives lost, to stoke further international outrage.

Let's see Galloway protest those as well for a bit. Oh no, Israel are literally the only baddie worth protesting.

[Ken Figenus]

Some fair points Jake, although it is impossible to find a spare bit of neutral ground in Gaza to store those 'protest' tin pot rockets that never get through - most densely populated bit of land on earth due to the way they have been purposefully pushed back by Israel, hoping they fall in the sea.

The answer is not this squabbling and pointing to Bloody Sunday etc as some sort of justification - we should learn from such regrets and not perpetuate them.

I'll live in hope as I have no horse in this race but cant just shut up and shrug about injustice - just like those good-hearted Israeli veterans.

[jakesmith]

I'm not seeking to justify it in any way, I am simply pointing out that war crimes take place in every conflict and yet it seems only this one sees one side singled out for mass scale vilification as it suits certain agendas.

There is no answer to this conflict. Israel will never give up. Their aggression is a by-product of their environment and the way they have been treated literally since day 1 of moving in. And a reaction to the acquiescence the Jews showed during the holocaust as they boarded trains like cattle believing they were to be resettled but actually taken off to be murdered.

Whether you agree or not, they believe they have a legitimate claim to the land and the Palestinians have shown they will not accept any compromise until they are all dead, which , seeing as they are backed by the largest economic & military power on the planet, is unlikely to happen any time soon.

It really does take two to tango and the Palestinians could improve their lot significantly if the political will was there. Many Palestinians are utterly appalled at what Hammas does in their name and they don't share the mission statement of their terrorist government but are too scared to speak up as Hammas is a brutal regime.

[Ken Figenus]

Good summary mate. A ever a conflict will be resolved with the pen and not the sword, and by Israel not stirring up a hornets nest of resentment in the Middle East all the b time.

[franki68]

Ken Figenus said:

I have no issue with genuine self defence and taking out combatants. NONE. That is any country's right. I have issues with justifying emptying a rifle magazine into a 13 yr old unarmed schoochirl and getting away with it scott free. Watchtower "A girl, about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death." Bang. And then the commander empties his mag into her already dead body... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/isra...

This site is a significant counterpoint as its run by veteran IDF soldiers sick of the cycle of death: https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/ They arent Anti Semitic either...

Google breaking the silence lies .

And if you wonder why maybe look not how lucrative it is.

[dasigty]

jakesmith said:

I'm not seeking to justify it in any way, I am simply pointing out that war crimes take place in every conflict and yet it seems only this one sees one side singled out for mass scale vilification as it suits certain agendas.

There is no answer to this conflict. Israel will never give up. Their aggression is a by-product of their environment and the way they have been treated literally since day 1 of moving in. And a reaction to the acquiescence the Jews showed during the holocaust as they boarded trains like cattle believing they were to be resettled but actually taken off to be murdered.

Whether you agree or not, they believe they have a legitimate claim to the land and the Palestinians have shown they will not accept any compromise until they are all dead, which , seeing as they are backed by the largest economic & military power on the planet, is unlikely to happen any time soon.

It really does take two to tango and the Palestinians could improve their lot significantly if the political will was there. Many Palestinians are utterly appalled at what Hammas does in their name and they don't share the mission statement of their terrorist government but are too scared to speak up as Hammas is a brutal regime.

You conveniently forget that "Moving in" was in fact forcing the locals off their land at the point of a gun and killing those who objected, they were Hungarians, Poles, Russians and every other nationality who happened to shared a religion. Thats it, they had little or no connection to the land.
Nor does constantly bringing up the camps have anything to do with a gang of religious based mercenaries invading and killing the locals to steal their land, or continuing to occupy and steal yet more. There is no legitimacy and never has been.

There is nothing to discuss, you can not compromise on theft and murder while it continues, The only thing you got right was that many Palestinians are appalled with Hammas, but they are the only game in town besides capitulation. There are also many Jews who oppose Israel and the actions that continue to this day.

If you want to use religious belief to justify murder and theft then apply it consistently, I look forward to your argument that ISIS has just as much right to exist.

[NoNeed]

dasigty said:

jakesmith said:

I'm not seeking to justify it in any way, I am simply pointing out that war crimes take place in every conflict and yet it seems only this one sees one side singled out for mass scale vilification as it suits certain agendas.

There is no answer to this conflict. Israel will never give up. Their aggression is a by-product of their environment and the way they have been treated literally since day 1 of moving in. And a reaction to the acquiescence the Jews showed during the holocaust as they boarded trains like cattle believing they were to be resettled but actually taken off to be murdered.

Whether you agree or not, they believe they have a legitimate claim to the land and the Palestinians have shown they will not accept any compromise until they are all dead, which , seeing as they are backed by the largest economic & military power on the planet, is unlikely to happen any time soon.

It really does take two to tango and the Palestinians could improve their lot significantly if the political will was there. Many Palestinians are utterly appalled at what Hammas does in their name and they don't share the mission statement of their terrorist government but are too scared to speak up as Hammas is a brutal regime.

You conveniently forget that "Moving in" was in fact forcing the locals off their land at the point of a gun and killing those who objected, they were Hungarians, Poles, Russians and every other nationality who happened to shared a religion. Thats it, they had little or no connection to the land.
Nor does constantly bringing up the camps have anything to do with a gang of religious based mercenaries invading and killing the locals to steal their land, or continuing to occupy and steal yet more. There is no legitimacy and never has been.

There is nothing to discuss, you can not compromise on theft and murder while it continues, The only thing you got right was that many Palestinians are appalled with Hammas, but they are the only game in town besides capitulation. There are also many Jews who oppose Israel and the actions that continue to this day.

If you want to use religious belief to justify murder and theft then apply it consistently, I look forward to your argument that ISIS has just as much right to exist.

you seem to forget that the palestinians were offered the land for their own state and turned it down on many occasions., they have never wanted peace.

[Countdown]

franki68 said:

Ken Figenus said:

I have no issue with genuine self defence and taking out combatants. NONE. That is any country's right. I have issues with justifying emptying a rifle magazine into a 13 yr old unarmed schoochirl and getting away with it scott free. Watchtower "A girl, about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death." Bang. And then the commander empties his mag into her already dead body... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/isra...

This site is a significant counterpoint as its run by veteran IDF soldiers sick of the cycle of death: https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/ They arent Anti Semitic either...

Google breaking the silence lies .

And if you wonder why maybe look not how lucrative it is.

Are these guys lying as well?

https://www.btselem.org/

[franki68]

Countdown said:

Are these guys lying as well?

https://www.btselem.org/

I don't know,but I do know breaking the silence are. If they use breaking the silence as a source then yes they will be lying about certain things.

[dasigty]

NoNeed said:

ou seem to forget that the palestinians were offered the land for their own state and turned it down on many occasions., they have never wanted peace.

So its "We will keep the land we stole, but decide some bit you can have back" ?. Is the farmer forced off his land, out of his house (That they or there family built) in the wrong for wanting their own property back ?.
This was not one state invading another, where people suddenly became citizens of say Germany instead of Poland, nor was it a bunch of locals with a shared agenda, this was thousands of individuals forced off their land at the point of a gun or murdered, by foreigners to Palestine recruited from a war ravaged Europe by a bunch of religious fanatics and shipped in illegally.

[NoNeed]

dasigty said:

NoNeed said:

ou seem to forget that the palestinians were offered the land for their own state and turned it down on many occasions., they have never wanted peace.

So its "We will keep the land we stole, but decide some bit you can have back" ?. Is the farmer forced off his land, out of his house (That they or there family built) in the wrong for wanting their own property back ?.
This was not one state invading another, where people suddenly became citizens of say Germany instead of Poland, nor was it a bunch of locals with a shared agenda, this was thousands of individuals forced off their land at the point of a gun or murdered, by foreigners to Palestine recruited from a war ravaged Europe by a bunch of religious fanatics and shipped in illegally.

Nobody was moved with the creation of Israel, nobody. The only people blockin a palastinian state are palastinians, this would be a state just like Israel, created the same way both did not exist 100 years ago, anybody saying palastine has a legal right to exist must recognise Israels right to exist it is that simple. Even if the Ottoman empire was re-assembled tbe area of Irael would still be populated by jews as it has been for thousands of years.

[franki68]

dasigty said:

So its "We will keep the land we stole, but decide some bit you can have back" ?. Is the farmer forced off his land, out of his house (That they or there family built) in the wrong for wanting their own property back ?.
This was not one state invading another, where people suddenly became citizens of say Germany instead of Poland, nor was it a bunch of locals with a shared agenda, this was thousands of individuals forced off their land at the point of a gun or murdered, by foreigners to Palestine recruited from a war ravaged Europe by a bunch of religious fanatics and shipped in illegally.

Except it wasn't .You are repeating revisionist history large elements of which have been pretty comprehensively destroyed,never mind the authors admitting they lied,doctored documents and took a lot of important information out of context.
Been discussed many times before on here ,and is frankly tedious ,but nearly 60% of those Europeans you refer came from arab countries from which they had been expelled,and those religious fanatics you refer to were people fleeing the holocaust.
Nor was the land owned by the arabs,most of it was owned by the british government,and why if they were all removed by gunpoint are there so many british sources and arab sources which contradict this, as well as the simple fact that 1/4 million arabs didn't budge ?

There is so much more but you have a belief based on a myth ,a myth which has a only small element of truth .

Countdown argue it with someone else,we've done it to death.

[dasigty]

NoNeed said:

Nobody was moved with the creation of Israel, nobody. The only people blockin a palastinian state are palastinians, this would be a state just like Israel, created the same way both did not exist 100 years ago, anybody saying palastine has a legal right to exist must recognise Israels right to exist it is that simple. Even if the Ottoman empire was re-assembled tbe area of Irael would still be populated by jews as it has been for thousands of years.

720,000 is the official figure of peoples expelled from the land, though by many to be on the low side and not including those who dared to object and were murdered. you can also count the 126 British servicemen killed by the terrorist campaign waged by the Irgun/Sten gang to that death toll.

Those doing the land grab were imported from Europe illegally, its a fact of history that can not be changed and should not be glossed over.

[NoNeed]

dasigty said:

NoNeed said:

Nobody was moved with the creation of Israel, nobody. The only people blockin a palastinian state are palastinians, this would be a state just like Israel, created the same way both did not exist 100 years ago, anybody saying palastine has a legal right to exist must recognise Israels right to exist it is that simple. Even if the Ottoman empire was re-assembled tbe area of Irael would still be populated by jews as it has been for thousands of years.

720,000 is the official figure of peoples expelled from the land, though by many to be on the low side and not including those who dared to object and were murdered. you can also count the 126 British servicemen killed by the terrorist campaign waged by the Irgun/Sten gang to that death toll.

Those doing the land grab were imported from Europe illegally, its a fact of history that can not be changed and should not be glossed over.

expelled from whosland?

[Biker 1]

dasigty said:

Those doing the land grab were imported from Europe illegally, its a fact of history that can not be changed and should not be glossed over.

Errrmmmmmmm........... Do the Jews expelled from Morocco, Yemen, Libya, Iraq, etc etc not count? Israeli Jewish population is roughly 50:50 Sephardic/Askanazi....

Whatever: our man Mr Galloway is a hypocritical tt of the highest order. If he had declared Bradford a 'Muslim free zone', I can only imagine the outrage: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/19/g...

[BlackLabel]

Just when you think you’ve seen all there is to see on social media and then George Galloway pops up and grasses up Lord Sugar to the Pope.