Drink driver suicide. ALERT: thread contains heartlessness
Discussion
Have look at the Channel 4 piece, above, which takes a rather different line, although that may be the line pursued by the journalist. The blame is placed on the fact that the boy could be held in custody for a few hours without his parents being called, and the conclusion asserted is that if not for this the boy would not have killed himself. That seems to me something of a leap of logic.
I fail to see how having mummy and daddy visit him in custody would have prevented him from committing suicide TWO DAYS after he was released? If it was a straight drink/drive offence then I doubt he'd have been in that long anyway. I also would be shocked if he'd asked to speak to his parents on the phone and been refused, unless he was kicking off.
This has nothing watsoever to do with the drink-driving offence/police custody...etc.
It's more likely the boy had problems, maybe the parents knew about these mental problems, or maybe he was very good at hiding them.People like him are vulnerable and are desperate for professional help, and without it all they need is a trigger/excuse to top themselves.Very sad and tragic.
The parents should have read between the lines a long time ago I reckon.
It's more likely the boy had problems, maybe the parents knew about these mental problems, or maybe he was very good at hiding them.People like him are vulnerable and are desperate for professional help, and without it all they need is a trigger/excuse to top themselves.Very sad and tragic.
The parents should have read between the lines a long time ago I reckon.
He was 17 and a half
He was of an age where teenagers are rightly treated as adults in so many ways. He could have consented to medical procedures and kept his medical history private from his parents. He could have access to free condoms from his local clinic and it would have been his own business. He could leave home and not be forced to return. He could have married with their consent, and gone to court to obtain it if they had refused.
He was considered old enough to drive. Although not legally old enough to purchase alcohol he clearly drank and he drove whilst over the limit.
In six months he would have been 18. He would then have been considered in every way an adult. And treated as so on his arrest, even if they succeeded in changing the rules.
As gutted as I feel for his parents, do they really think that in those six months their son was likely to have grown up so much that he would have dealt with the same circumstances completely differently?
Teenagers are often not good at dealing with ''stuff''. He obviously felt he couldn't tell them. I should imagine that is a terribly difficult thing to come to terms with. But I could also imagine that another 17 year old, arrested for another offence, would much rather deal with it on their own than have their folks dragged into it, and get very distressed if their parents were automatically informed.
Bloody shame.
He was of an age where teenagers are rightly treated as adults in so many ways. He could have consented to medical procedures and kept his medical history private from his parents. He could have access to free condoms from his local clinic and it would have been his own business. He could leave home and not be forced to return. He could have married with their consent, and gone to court to obtain it if they had refused.
He was considered old enough to drive. Although not legally old enough to purchase alcohol he clearly drank and he drove whilst over the limit.
In six months he would have been 18. He would then have been considered in every way an adult. And treated as so on his arrest, even if they succeeded in changing the rules.
As gutted as I feel for his parents, do they really think that in those six months their son was likely to have grown up so much that he would have dealt with the same circumstances completely differently?
Teenagers are often not good at dealing with ''stuff''. He obviously felt he couldn't tell them. I should imagine that is a terribly difficult thing to come to terms with. But I could also imagine that another 17 year old, arrested for another offence, would much rather deal with it on their own than have their folks dragged into it, and get very distressed if their parents were automatically informed.
Bloody shame.
pingu393 said:
The problem is that we have multiple ages of consent. Make them all the same = simples.
What do we need?
1. The age at which one understands the consequences of one's actions.
2. The age at which one should be treated as an adult.
2. This can cover everything from deciding it's OK to get married, to looking after one's own financial affairs, to Mummy doesn't get a call when one has been a naughty boy.
Or voting for independence in Scotland. The SNP reckon you are adult enough at 16 to decide on your Nations future, but not adult enough to buy a pint of Lager!What do we need?
1. The age at which one understands the consequences of one's actions.
2. The age at which one should be treated as an adult.
2. This can cover everything from deciding it's OK to get married, to looking after one's own financial affairs, to Mummy doesn't get a call when one has been a naughty boy.
ILoveMondeo said:
Seems reasonable to me, I wouldn't class a 17 year old as an adult either. Nor most 18 year olds, but you've got to draw the line somewhere and that's a well established watermark.
What has changed, when I was 16, me and hundreds of others were fully trained and serving on ships of the Royal Navy, so we must have been considered as an adult to do that.Last week we read a proposal to give 13 year old girls the morning after pills, as "Kids" these daya are reaching maturity earlier, so what is it, is a 17 year an adult or a child?
I don't for one second think this blokes arrest had anything to do with him taking his life.
Breadvan72 said:
17 year old kid arrested for driving whilst pished up. Kills self two days later. The parents appear to hold the police to blame, but it strikes me that they might also consider how their son came to be so mentally vulnerable that this, one of life's adversities, tipped him over the edge.
It might be said that you're doing to the parents what the parents are doing to the police.How do you know they weren't doing something about his mental state..?
mybrainhurts said:
Breadvan72 said:
17 year old kid arrested for driving whilst pished up. Kills self two days later. The parents appear to hold the police to blame, but it strikes me that they might also consider how their son came to be so mentally vulnerable that this, one of life's adversities, tipped him over the edge.
It might be said that you're doing to the parents what the parents are doing to the police.How do you know they weren't doing something about his mental state..?
What we do know is that he was out on the piss (under age) while driving. That he was allowed to do that does not really say they were overly concerned about his mental health.
davepoth said:
mybrainhurts said:
Breadvan72 said:
17 year old kid arrested for driving whilst pished up. Kills self two days later. The parents appear to hold the police to blame, but it strikes me that they might also consider how their son came to be so mentally vulnerable that this, one of life's adversities, tipped him over the edge.
It might be said that you're doing to the parents what the parents are doing to the police.How do you know they weren't doing something about his mental state..?
What we do know is that he was out on the piss (under age) while driving. That he was allowed to do that does not really say they were overly concerned about his mental health.
Vipers said:
What has changed, when I was 16, me and hundreds of others were fully trained and serving on ships of the Royal Navy, so we must have been considered as an adult to do that.
Last week we read a proposal to give 13 year old girls the morning after pills, as "Kids" these daya are reaching maturity earlier, so what is it, is a 17 year an adult or a child?
I don't for one second think this blokes arrest had anything to do with him taking his life.
100 years ago 12 year old kids worked 12 hour days in cotton mills......Last week we read a proposal to give 13 year old girls the morning after pills, as "Kids" these daya are reaching maturity earlier, so what is it, is a 17 year an adult or a child?
I don't for one second think this blokes arrest had anything to do with him taking his life.
To a certain extent our youth (and if you read the press lately our adults) are more children than those of generations gone by.
In some respects that's a bad thing (especially, if like me you employ a bunch of 18-21 year old and end up doing a load of parenting work with regard to "telling them how it is" in the real world with regard to jobs and work ethic, and nobody owes them a living, but that's another topic!
)In many respects it's also a good thing, let them be kids and grow up a little slower, whilst I dont expect your navy life did you any hard at all, in fact you'd possibly be the first to say it was the making of you as a man, however I'm not sure I'd like my son to be doing that at 16 (he's 13 now, and I just cant comprehend him doing that in only 3 years!), probably lining up for a flaming of mollycoddling, quite happy for him to be a kid a little longer.
Cant comment on the reasons for his suicide, only speculate, so I'll just keep my gob shut on that one.
I just think that perhaps the father deserves a little more sympathy than the OP and others suggest and that his request for a full investigation and the consideration of a change in the rules regarding police custody are not unreasonable.
I still think the driving age should be 18.
GadgeS3C said:
ILoveMondeo said:
I heard the father on the radio today, I didnt get the impression they were blaming the police at all.
I get the impression they want it properly investigated and the law changing so that 17 year olds are treated as children by the police. According to the interview and reporter on Radio4 all aspects of European and international law as well as the legal system in the UK treat a 17 year old as a child, except for their treatment at a police station where they are regarded as as adult. Hence the parents were not told, couldn't speak with him about it to say it wasn't the end of the world etc.
Seems reasonable to me, I wouldn't class a 17 year old as an adult either. Nor most 18 year olds, but you've got to draw the line somewhere and that's a well established watermark.
Not disagreeing with your sentiments but it seems a little disconnected to treat a 17 year old as child but allow them to drive. As you say a line is needed and on balance I agree with it being 18.I get the impression they want it properly investigated and the law changing so that 17 year olds are treated as children by the police. According to the interview and reporter on Radio4 all aspects of European and international law as well as the legal system in the UK treat a 17 year old as a child, except for their treatment at a police station where they are regarded as as adult. Hence the parents were not told, couldn't speak with him about it to say it wasn't the end of the world etc.
Seems reasonable to me, I wouldn't class a 17 year old as an adult either. Nor most 18 year olds, but you've got to draw the line somewhere and that's a well established watermark.
I think bringing the treatment in line with what happens in Northern Ireland and Scotland would not be a bad thing.
mybrainhurts said:
Breadvan72 said:
17 year old kid arrested for driving whilst pished up. Kills self two days later. The parents appear to hold the police to blame, but it strikes me that they might also consider how their son came to be so mentally vulnerable that this, one of life's adversities, tipped him over the edge.
It might be said that you're doing to the parents what the parents are doing to the police.How do you know they weren't doing something about his mental state..?
ILoveMondeo said:
in some countries they can drive at 16 (younger in others maybe?) and are still regarded as a child.
In these countries with lower driving age (USA) I think you'll find their access and acceptability to buying or drinking alcohol is much different. In the UK children are drinking beer from an early age.. 16 & up, most see getting served in a pub, underage as an achievement. (I did)Of course, buying beer with a fake ID happens in America, but you never see youngsters in bars, it is commonplace to have full ID checks when buying beer, even at 40 something.
There is something lacking in this world.. A certain lack of responsibility. As others have said, old enough to drive, old enough to be responsible for their actions. It is a shame our society doesn't shape or support this theory.
My2pworth.
Guam said:
bridgdav said:
In these countries with lower driving age (USA) I think you'll find their access and acceptability to buying or drinking alcohol is much different. In the UK children are drinking beer from an early age.. 16 & up, most see getting served in a pub, underage as an achievement. (I did)
Of course, buying beer with a fake ID happens in America, but you never see youngsters in bars, it is commonplace to have full ID checks when buying beer, even at 40 something.
There is something lacking in this world.. A certain lack of responsibility. As others have said, old enough to drive, old enough to be responsible for their actions. It is a shame our society doesn't shape or support this theory.
My2pworth.
My wife was over the moon to be carded in a Bar in Florida at 32 years old Of course, buying beer with a fake ID happens in America, but you never see youngsters in bars, it is commonplace to have full ID checks when buying beer, even at 40 something.
There is something lacking in this world.. A certain lack of responsibility. As others have said, old enough to drive, old enough to be responsible for their actions. It is a shame our society doesn't shape or support this theory.
My2pworth.
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