Drink driver suicide. ALERT: thread contains heartlessness
Discussion
Terzo123 said:
Eric Mc said:
And the situation in England and Wales?
No idea. Why don't you google itYou stated in relation to police detention rules that "In Northern Ireland and Scotland, a 17 year old WOULD be treated differently to a full adult."
Your statement was incorrect. I'm sorry of i have upset you by pointing it that it was wrong. But it would be troublesome if anyone was to take your statement as fact.
I am more concerned that a 17 year old is treated differently in different parts of the UK, with better treatment in Scotland and Northern Ireland compared to England and Wales.
Which is the point I was making.
Has anyone actually watched the ch4 piece ?
They are only saying that when a 17 yo is charged with something, his parents are informed.
Seems rational to me seeing as the ECHR states that everyone under 18 is clqassed as a child.
Perhaps the thread should be re-titled:
"Drink driver suicide. ALERT: thread contains guesswork and ignorance of the actual story"
They are only saying that when a 17 yo is charged with something, his parents are informed.
Seems rational to me seeing as the ECHR states that everyone under 18 is clqassed as a child.
Perhaps the thread should be re-titled:
"Drink driver suicide. ALERT: thread contains guesswork and ignorance of the actual story"
Eric Mc said:
Blame Channel 4 then.
I am more concerned that a 17 year old is treated differently in different parts of the UK, with better treatment in Scotland and Northern Ireland compared to England and Wales.
Which is the point I was making.
In which case your point is flawed, as had that 17 year old been arrested in Scotland, his parents wouldn't have been informed either. I am more concerned that a 17 year old is treated differently in different parts of the UK, with better treatment in Scotland and Northern Ireland compared to England and Wales.
Which is the point I was making.
This is because he didn't want them contacted and the police is Scotland wouldn't be obliged to contact them if that was the case.
I think that a 17 year old should either be classed as a child or classed as an adult, and the UK should make up its mind and apply rules consistently. Maybe the age for everything should be 18, including driving and shagging.
What I took from the Channel 4 piece was that too much emphasis was being placed on the impact of the arrest and the period in custody. The boy was then released and had two days in which to obtain reassurance from his parents that his life was not now in ruins. I am not condemning the boy for making the foolish mistake of drink driving. It is a serious matter, but he was young and immature. He must have had embedded mental health issues, and the suggestion that he would still have been alive if not for being held in custody on adult terms for 6.5 hours seems to me an over simplistic suggestion, although I take the point of the arrest operating as a last straw on what must have been a fragile mind.
What I took from the Channel 4 piece was that too much emphasis was being placed on the impact of the arrest and the period in custody. The boy was then released and had two days in which to obtain reassurance from his parents that his life was not now in ruins. I am not condemning the boy for making the foolish mistake of drink driving. It is a serious matter, but he was young and immature. He must have had embedded mental health issues, and the suggestion that he would still have been alive if not for being held in custody on adult terms for 6.5 hours seems to me an over simplistic suggestion, although I take the point of the arrest operating as a last straw on what must have been a fragile mind.
Terzo123 said:
Eric Mc said:
Blame Channel 4 then.
I am more concerned that a 17 year old is treated differently in different parts of the UK, with better treatment in Scotland and Northern Ireland compared to England and Wales.
Which is the point I was making.
In which case your point is flawed, as had that 17 year old been arrested in Scotland, his parents wouldn't have been informed either. I am more concerned that a 17 year old is treated differently in different parts of the UK, with better treatment in Scotland and Northern Ireland compared to England and Wales.
Which is the point I was making.
This is because he didn't want them contacted and the police is Scotland wouldn't be obliged to contact them if that was the case.
Ok ericMajorProblem said:
I'd rather see the driving age raised to 18 than have people getting off lightly with such offences.
No difference if someone runs over your family whether they are 17 or 18.
This has nothing to do with sentencing or guilt. It is all to do with treatment at a police station.No difference if someone runs over your family whether they are 17 or 18.
17yo, 6 point licence, perhaps a 2 years ban, that is a lifetime to someone that young, horizons clipped, aspirations diminished, god knows how his insurance might be at the end of that time, proud parents ashamed, possible deep shame in himself, his own fault granted but add it all up and for some 17yo that will need no 'embedded mental state' to think of a quick out.
Pointless death, a whole lifetime of wonder dashed.
Life is too fabulous for any of my words to express adequately but it can also appear as dark as the pitch black night if the light goes out of it.
Depressing in the extreme for his parents.
Pointless death, a whole lifetime of wonder dashed.
Life is too fabulous for any of my words to express adequately but it can also appear as dark as the pitch black night if the light goes out of it.
Depressing in the extreme for his parents.
Gene Vincent said:
17yo, 6 point licence, perhaps a 2 years ban, that is a lifetime to someone that young, horizons clipped, aspirations diminished, god knows how his insurance might be at the end of that time, proud parents ashamed, possible deep shame in himself, his own fault granted but add it all up and for some 17yo that will need no 'embedded mental state' to think of a quick out.
Pointless death, a whole lifetime of wonder dashed.
Life is too fabulous for any of my words to express adequately but it can also appear as dark as the pitch black night if the light goes out of it.
Depressing in the extreme for his parents.
I think as in my post, we totally agree.Pointless death, a whole lifetime of wonder dashed.
Life is too fabulous for any of my words to express adequately but it can also appear as dark as the pitch black night if the light goes out of it.
Depressing in the extreme for his parents.
I had an open mind, but the lad didn't seem a 'scrote' whose parents wouldn't care. Ironically, that's probably as much of the issue. He had a nice family and a Dad who probably just like mine would have been incredibly disappointed in me, and I would have ashamed my family.
I say this from some experience as someone close to me at 17 was arrested for drink driving, and subsequently banned. The realisation a year later that he has to drive to a job, but can't, so therefore has little employment prospects where he is is enough to start a downward spiral to the point where he did indeed try to commit suicide himself. Luckily for him, he had no access to a shotgun, otherwise he would have been successful.
JustinP1 said:
Gene Vincent said:
17yo, 6 point licence, perhaps a 2 years ban, that is a lifetime to someone that young, horizons clipped, aspirations diminished, god knows how his insurance might be at the end of that time, proud parents ashamed, possible deep shame in himself, his own fault granted but add it all up and for some 17yo that will need no 'embedded mental state' to think of a quick out.
Pointless death, a whole lifetime of wonder dashed.
Life is too fabulous for any of my words to express adequately but it can also appear as dark as the pitch black night if the light goes out of it.
Depressing in the extreme for his parents.
I think as in my post, we totally agree.Pointless death, a whole lifetime of wonder dashed.
Life is too fabulous for any of my words to express adequately but it can also appear as dark as the pitch black night if the light goes out of it.
Depressing in the extreme for his parents.
I had an open mind, but the lad didn't seem a 'scrote' whose parents wouldn't care. Ironically, that's probably as much of the issue. He had a nice family and a Dad who probably just like mine would have been incredibly disappointed in me, and I would have ashamed my family.
I say this from some experience as someone close to me at 17 was arrested for drink driving, and subsequently banned. The realisation a year later that he has to drive to a job, but can't, so therefore has little employment prospects where he is is enough to start a downward spiral to the point where he did indeed try to commit suicide himself. Luckily for him, he had no access to a shotgun, otherwise he would have been successful.
ked, the strictures are fierce and there is no lee-way, just homogeneity and ste...Gene Vincent said:
17yo, 6 point licence, perhaps a 2 years ban, that is a lifetime to someone that young, horizons clipped, aspirations diminished, god knows how his insurance might be at the end of that time, proud parents ashamed, possible deep shame in himself, his own fault granted but add it all up and for some 17yo that will need no 'embedded mental state' to think of a quick out.
Pointless death, a whole lifetime of wonder dashed.
Life is too fabulous for any of my words to express adequately but it can also appear as dark as the pitch black night if the light goes out of it.
Depressing in the extreme for his parents.
Were he some scrote with no driving license anyway, there would have been nothing that the law could have done to stop him driving. They would have kept stopping him, kept banning him and kept fining him (which he wouldn't probably pay). Pointless death, a whole lifetime of wonder dashed.
Life is too fabulous for any of my words to express adequately but it can also appear as dark as the pitch black night if the light goes out of it.
Depressing in the extreme for his parents.
This lad makes a stupid mistake and like you say everything would have turned to s
t for him with no driving license due to a drink drive ban. How much over the limit was he?
deeps said:
I guess the parents could have explained to him (but didn't) that humans aren't born with moral fibre, they make many mistakes, but only then by feeling shame realise that they will never let that happen again, and grow into a stronger person.
Hindsight's a wonderful thing as always.
I heard this piece on R4 on Tuesday too. The thing you may be misunderstanding is that the story was presented as lad killed himself in custody. Thats how the headline went on the Radio show, however, when the lads Dad came on he explained later on that in fact he killed himself at home 2 days later. It is very, very sad but the way the Journalist tried to spin this was all the fault of the big bad Policeperson was extremely disingenous. I think the "where did this story come from" and "who is pushing this agenda" are more interesting questions than should we treat a 17 year old as an adult or not.Hindsight's a wonderful thing as always.
Eric Mc said:
Terzo123 said:
Easy tiger
No smoke signals required. The duty officer/bar staff contact the person for you via this new modern invention called the telephone. They are not allowed to discuss why the person is in custody, but can inform them if they will be detained in custody pending court appearance or if they will be getting released.
Right - so in Scotland, parents CAN be informed that their child has been taken into custody - as Channel 4 asserted?No smoke signals required. The duty officer/bar staff contact the person for you via this new modern invention called the telephone. They are not allowed to discuss why the person is in custody, but can inform them if they will be detained in custody pending court appearance or if they will be getting released.
In England and Wales that is NOT the case.
in the case of a DP being a 16 or 17 year old how much is gained (assuming adequate competence) by the presence of an appropriate adult as well as the brief at interview.
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