Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 2
Discussion
Diderot said:
... it's about buttfking all those problematic producers of oil/gas (OPEC, Malaysia, ex-USSR etc)
Not sure Putin is suffering much yet...kerplunk said:
The need for careful consideration of the potential long term side-effects of this...
...is self-justifying and requires no 'otherness'.
Yes, it was - Well worth considering - ...is self-justifying and requires no 'otherness'.
Unfortunately this has led to some very unforeseen consequences for those who are struggling to find cash to heat their homes
kerplunk said:
mybrainhurts said:
kerplunk said:
they might decide free market capitalism has utterly failed to look after the farm and what you fear now (state control/socialism etc) will come in spades later. Just a thought! 
What..? After its recent spectacular collapse...? And a young generation that rejects control more than any of its forebears..?Hmm.
It is of course quite possible that the parents of most of those future youth you have in mind have yet to arrive on this overcrowding isle.
I am disinclined to think of them or indeed encourage their production. I think that puts me somewhat in line with Sir David Attenborough and a few other 'recognised' leading thinkers, though I am almost ashamed to admit it.
If one is prepared to learn the language and the customs there are still quite a few places in off-shore Europe where investments would allow one's cash to go a long way. They might get a little cold in winter and hot in summer but if you can tolerate that at some point the investment is likely to pay off. The downside might be that the costs of living there, energy prices and green policies for example, might end up outweighing the advantages.
Silver Smudger said:
Diderot said:
... it's about buttfking all those problematic producers of oil/gas (OPEC, Malaysia, ex-USSR etc)
Not sure Putin is suffering much yet...kerplunk said:
The need for careful consideration of the potential long term side-effects of this...
...is self-justifying and requires no 'otherness'.
Yes, it was - Well worth considering - ...is self-justifying and requires no 'otherness'.
Unfortunately this has led to some very unforeseen consequences for those who are struggling to find cash to heat their homes
The 'very unforeseen' part is slightly puzzling. That's generally what happens when stuff gets more expensive - people are less able to afford it.
Something should be done about it.
Silver Smudger said:
Diderot said:
... it's about buttfking all those problematic producers of oil/gas (OPEC, Malaysia, ex-USSR etc)
Not sure Putin is suffering much yet...kerplunk said:
The need for careful consideration of the potential long term side-effects of this...
...is self-justifying and requires no 'otherness'.
Yes, it was - Well worth considering - ...is self-justifying and requires no 'otherness'.
Unfortunately this has led to some very unforeseen consequences for those who are struggling to find cash to heat their homes
turbobloke said:
kerplunk said:
they might decide free market capitalism has utterly failed to look after the farm
You are Jonathon Hangdog Flappy Jowls Porritt AICMTP.
Such notions concerning capitalism are deluded and wide of the mark, of course - the failed ideologies of socialism and environ mentalism are causing far more problems, for the poor and the elderly in particular, and 'the planet'.
Clearly the two most basic problems, if we accept the premise, are excessive births (combined with ever improving survival rates for the young) and excessive elderly, again due to improving survival rates.
Both catergories, of course, tend not to be net contributors to the progress of the world financially and yet are consuming ever greater amounts of rare stuff and energy.
Now, it's a tad difficult to stand in front of a camera and baldly state that China has it right and birth rates should be controlled and reduced or that the elderly should be culled - probably well before any "Pathways" would need to be introduced. However to allude to the same problem via "CO2" matters and justify energy price increases that potentially offer an 'alternative' approach to culling. Far less direct, far less open to direct criticism and relatively safe ground to be walking on from a personal point of view.
I can't recall whether he has 3 or 4 children but either way I assume he is encouraging them not to breed in order to compensate for his personal over enthusiasm.
LongQ said:
turbobloke said:
kerplunk said:
they might decide free market capitalism has utterly failed to look after the farm
You are Jonathon Hangdog Flappy Jowls Porritt AICMTP.
Such notions concerning capitalism are deluded and wide of the mark, of course - the failed ideologies of socialism and environ mentalism are causing far more problems, for the poor and the elderly in particular, and 'the planet'.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-ea...
"Lang Banks, WWF Scotland's director, said: There is no need for the proposed new gas plant to fill the space left by the coal station."
fukin muppets like this perfectly illustrate how the laudable aims in renewable power production, along with with near instantaneous fossil infill, have been distorted by political gerrymandering and absolute arrogance......
PS Nice to see Tallbloke's still going...
"Lang Banks, WWF Scotland's director, said: There is no need for the proposed new gas plant to fill the space left by the coal station."
fukin muppets like this perfectly illustrate how the laudable aims in renewable power production, along with with near instantaneous fossil infill, have been distorted by political gerrymandering and absolute arrogance......
PS Nice to see Tallbloke's still going...
Mojocvh said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-ea...
"Lang Banks, WWF Scotland's director, said: There is no need for the proposed new gas plant to fill the space left by the coal station."
fukin muppets like this perfectly illustrate how the laudable aims in renewable power production, along with with near instantaneous fossil infill, have been distorted by political gerrymandering and absolute arrogance......
PS Nice to see Tallbloke's still going...
"""Renewables now generate more of Scotland's electricity needs than either coal or gas and reduced emissions by over 10 million tonnes last year."Lang Banks, WWF Scotland's director, said: There is no need for the proposed new gas plant to fill the space left by the coal station."
fukin muppets like this perfectly illustrate how the laudable aims in renewable power production, along with with near instantaneous fossil infill, have been distorted by political gerrymandering and absolute arrogance......
PS Nice to see Tallbloke's still going...
"There is no need for the proposed new gas plant to fill the space left by the coal station.
"The government's own energy policy shows Scotland doesn't need any new gas or coal to keep the lights on.
"A new unabated gas plant risks locking Scotland into high carbon electricity generation that threatens our climate targets and makes us even more reliant on volatile global gas markets.""
Lets let them have all of the windymill power then, and nothing else. See how long the lights stay on...
New Report Confirms Global Temperature Standstill Is Real & Difficult To Explain With Current Climate Models
After reviewing the scientific literature the reports concludes that the standstill is an empirical fact and a reality that challenges current climate models. During the time that the Earth’s global temperature has remained static the atmospheric composition of carbon dioxide has increased from 370 to 390 ppm.
“The standstill is a reality and is not the result of cherry-picking start and end points. Its commencement can be seen clearly in the data, and it continues to this day,” said Dr David Whitehouse, the author of the new report.
The report shows that the temperature standstill has been a much discussed topic in peer-reviewed scientific literature for years, but that this scientific debate has neither been followed by most of the media, nor acknowledged by climate campaigners, scientific societies and prominent scientists.
The report also surveys how those few journalists who have looked at the issue have been reporting the standstill, with many far too ready to dismiss it or lacking a sense of journalistic inquiry, preferring to report squabbles rather than the science.
”If the standstill continues for a few more years it will mean that no one who has just reached adulthood, or younger, will have witnessed the Earth get warmer during their lifetime,” said the report’s author, Dr David Whitehouse.
In his foreword, Lord Turnbull, former Cabinet Secretary and Head of the Home Civil Service, commented:
“Dr Whitehouse is a man who deserves to be listened to. He has consistently followed an approach of examining observations rather than projections of large scale computer models, which are too often cited as ‘evidence’. He looks dispassionately at the data, trying to establish what message it tells us, rather than using it to confirm a pre-held view.”
http://www.thegwpf.org/report-global-temperature-s...
- Global temperature constant for 16 years as CO2 increases from 370–390 ppm
- Difficult to explain with current climate models.
- Not due to cherry-picking or El Nino/La Nina events.
- Poorly reported by the media.
After reviewing the scientific literature the reports concludes that the standstill is an empirical fact and a reality that challenges current climate models. During the time that the Earth’s global temperature has remained static the atmospheric composition of carbon dioxide has increased from 370 to 390 ppm.
“The standstill is a reality and is not the result of cherry-picking start and end points. Its commencement can be seen clearly in the data, and it continues to this day,” said Dr David Whitehouse, the author of the new report.
The report shows that the temperature standstill has been a much discussed topic in peer-reviewed scientific literature for years, but that this scientific debate has neither been followed by most of the media, nor acknowledged by climate campaigners, scientific societies and prominent scientists.
The report also surveys how those few journalists who have looked at the issue have been reporting the standstill, with many far too ready to dismiss it or lacking a sense of journalistic inquiry, preferring to report squabbles rather than the science.
”If the standstill continues for a few more years it will mean that no one who has just reached adulthood, or younger, will have witnessed the Earth get warmer during their lifetime,” said the report’s author, Dr David Whitehouse.
In his foreword, Lord Turnbull, former Cabinet Secretary and Head of the Home Civil Service, commented:
“Dr Whitehouse is a man who deserves to be listened to. He has consistently followed an approach of examining observations rather than projections of large scale computer models, which are too often cited as ‘evidence’. He looks dispassionately at the data, trying to establish what message it tells us, rather than using it to confirm a pre-held view.”
http://www.thegwpf.org/report-global-temperature-s...
February 2013 9th warmest on record.
http://www.livescience.com/27916-february-2013-glo...
http://www.livescience.com/27916-february-2013-glo...
Article said:
Last month was among the top 10 warmest Februaries for the planet since record keeping began in 1880, U.S. weather officials announced today (March 14).
February 2013 tied with 2003 as the 9th warmest February of the past 133 years, according to scientists with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association (NOAA). They calculated last month's globally-averaged temperature at 54.93 degrees Fahrenheit (12.67 degrees Celsius), or 1.03 degrees F (0.57 degrees C), above the 20th century average of 53.9 degrees F (12.1 degrees C).
This means February 2013 was the 336th consecutive month with a global temperature above the 20th century average. The last below-average February, in terms of temperature, was in 1985.
"Many areas of the world experienced higher-than-average monthly temperatures, including eastern Europe, western Russia, the Middle East, much of Canada, and southern Greenland," a statement from NOAA said. "Meanwhile, northern and western Alaska, far northwestern Canada, a large swath of the contiguous United States, western Europe, northwestern Africa, Siberia, Mongolia, and most of the eastern Pacific Ocean were notably below average."
February 2013 tied with 2003 as the 9th warmest February of the past 133 years, according to scientists with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association (NOAA). They calculated last month's globally-averaged temperature at 54.93 degrees Fahrenheit (12.67 degrees Celsius), or 1.03 degrees F (0.57 degrees C), above the 20th century average of 53.9 degrees F (12.1 degrees C).
This means February 2013 was the 336th consecutive month with a global temperature above the 20th century average. The last below-average February, in terms of temperature, was in 1985.
"Many areas of the world experienced higher-than-average monthly temperatures, including eastern Europe, western Russia, the Middle East, much of Canada, and southern Greenland," a statement from NOAA said. "Meanwhile, northern and western Alaska, far northwestern Canada, a large swath of the contiguous United States, western Europe, northwestern Africa, Siberia, Mongolia, and most of the eastern Pacific Ocean were notably below average."
turbobloke said:
Only got to page 8 but had to comment on this:Dr Whitehouse said:
It is incontrovertible that the global annual average temperature of the past decade, and in some datasets the past 15 years, has not increased. Year-on-year fluctuations, and any trend over this period, are within errors of measurement. The only justifiable statistical description of the global temperature during this period is a constant.
err no sorry, the only justifiable statistical description is 'it may or may not have warmed during this period', or if you prefer, 'it may or may not have remained constant'. You can't have it both ways and say 'any trend over this period is within the error of measurement' and then say 'therefore it is constant' because that carries exactly the same statistical-unsoundness as saying global temperature has increased during the period.
kerplunk said:
turbobloke said:
Only got to page 8 but had to comment on this:Dr Whitehouse said:
It is incontrovertible that the global annual average temperature of the past decade, and in some datasets the past 15 years, has not increased. Year-on-year fluctuations, and any trend over this period, are within errors of measurement. The only justifiable statistical description of the global temperature during this period is a constant.
err no sorry, the only justifiable statistical description is 'it may or may not have warmed during this period', or if you prefer, 'it may or may not have remained constant'. You can't have it both ways and say 'any trend over this period is within the error of measurement' and then say 'therefore it is constant' because that carries exactly the same statistical-unsoundness as saying global temperature has increased during the period.That was a rhetorical question of course.
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