Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 2

[zygalski]

I'd be amazed if there was a hosepipe ban this year simply because we've just been through one of the wettest Winters on record. It has little to do with how hot/dry the Summer is, the water table is just so high & reservoirs so full.
Short termism when it suits, long term when it doesn't...

[The Don of Croy]

Jinx said:

31.9 C - that's not even in the nineties in old money. Remember all the 100 degree days that made headlines in the seventies?

There's a headline from the early 1980's referring to 100 deg F at Liphook on consecutive days iirc. I also think it was disproved/optimistic meter reading, but still well into the 90's. It was a front page story back then.

[stevejh]

As long as there are people out there who think like this and claim to be scientists this farce will carry on.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/07/0...

I was going to comment but you just know that he is beyond reasoning and any contrary comments will probably be deleted.

[LongQ]

stevejh said:

As long as there are people out there who think like this and claim to be scientists this farce will carry on.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/07/0...

I was going to comment but you just know that he is beyond reasoning and any contrary comments will probably be deleted.

Slate is a serious health risk for anyone who may possibly at some point in their lives be susceptible to high blood pressure.

[Jasandjules]

stevejh said:

I was going to comment but you just know that he is beyond reasoning and any contrary comments will probably be deleted.

Indeed. Plus no actual evidence put forth, simply attacking the individuals and far worse, looking to censor alternative views. That is highly unscientific to me.

[mybrainhurts]

zygalski said:

chris watton said:

And what are the Winter death stats?

Hot Winter-related deaths?
That's pushing it a bit far.

Not really a joking matter when 30,000 people died because they couldn't keep warm, partly due to climate policy energy idiocy, of which you seem to approve.

[kingofdbrits]

zygalski said:

I'd be amazed if there was a hosepipe ban this year simply because we've just been through one of the wettest Winters on record. It has little to do with how hot/dry the Summer is, the water table is just so high & reservoirs so full.
Short termism when it suits, long term when it doesn't...

Something posted here a few pages back.

They have already predicted a drought this summer, though this is a short term prediction from June looking forward just 2 weeks, which turned out to be wrong. We're still building the foundation on my site, and the site turned into a bog with all the rain, we lost 4 days on the programme due to mud.

The EA are saying ground water levels are normal, though we should all 'use water wisely'.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/weather/10902819...

[zygalski]

mybrainhurts said:

Not really a joking matter when 30,000 people died because they couldn't keep warm, partly due to climate policy energy idiocy, of which you seem to approve.

You're right.
Maybe the government should also pay a subsidy for Summer A/C?

[zygalski]

kingofdbrits said:

zygalski said:

I'd be amazed if there was a hosepipe ban this year simply because we've just been through one of the wettest Winters on record. It has little to do with how hot/dry the Summer is, the water table is just so high & reservoirs so full.
Short termism when it suits, long term when it doesn't...

Something posted here a few pages back.

They have already predicted a drought this summer, though this is a short term prediction from June looking forward just 2 weeks, which turned out to be wrong. We're still building the foundation on my site, and the site turned into a bog with all the rain, we lost 4 days on the programme due to mud.

The EA are saying ground water levels are normal, though we should all 'use water wisely'.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/weather/10902819...

Reservoirs are full to overflowing, eg:
http://www.southernwater.co.uk/at-home/your-water/...
Click on any link & you can view the actual level vs average & minimum & that's in the sunny Sarf...

[mybrainhurts]

zygalski said:

mybrainhurts said:

Not really a joking matter when 30,000 people died because they couldn't keep warm, partly due to climate policy energy idiocy, of which you seem to approve.

You're right.
Maybe the government should also pay a subsidy for Summer A/C?

You're full of wise thoughts, aren't you?

[zygalski]

mybrainhurts said:

You're full of wise thoughts, aren't you?

Just trying to save those heatwave victims. Not trying to score points - and I would of course never accuse you of being a pious drama queen. I assure you I care just as sincerely & deeply for them as you do for those poor folk who freeze to death.

[mybrainhurts]

zygalski said:

mybrainhurts said:

You're full of wise thoughts, aren't you?

Just trying to save those heatwave victims. Not trying to score points

Of course you're not, perish the thought. Best of luck with your campaign to save the heat wave victims.

zygalski said:

- and I would of course never accuse you of being a pious drama queen.

I think you just did, dear boy.

[kingofdbrits]

zygalski said:

Reservoirs are full to overflowing, eg:
http://www.southernwater.co.uk/at-home/your-water/...
Click on any link & you can view the actual level vs average & minimum & that's in the sunny Sarf...

First one i clicked on, Darwell, said it's 76% full. I agree with you that they're full, i walk the dog round Sywell and that's as full as it's always been. The point I was making was that even after the record rainfall and as you point out, full reservoirs, the Met Office & EA are making noises about droughts & careful use of water when the country couldn't hold any more water.

[zygalski]

Hmmm okay. Bewl is 6.5x the capacity of Darwell though & 99% full.
I also think the EA are being way over cautious.

[LongQ]

zygalski said:

760 people died due to heat-related illnesses last Summer.
People have short memories....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hea...

"The heatwave has been responsible for as many as 760 deaths, according to official calculations, as the UK enters the sixth day of plus-30C temperatures.

The temperature on Thursday hit 31.0C, following Wednesday’s year-high of 31.9C at Heathrow, marking the longest heatwave for seven years."

Any updates on the calculated estimates? I have tried a brief search with no success - but plenty of references to the original attention grabbing headline "report". I note also that the statistical estimate was actually something like "may be 540 to 760" extra deaths in the period. Hmm. Or maybe not?

I would like to see a breakdown that separated people drowning in quarries, lakes and rivers (when assumedly trying to keep cool is their prime reason for being there) versus those who are not more than a few hours, days or maybe a month or two from passing on anyway.

Maybe we have to wait a few more months for the official statistics to be released.

I always thought a "Heatwave" implied consistently notably high temperatures for a number of weeks but is seems that these days anything over 5 days counts.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/learning/learn-about-t...

Of course one has to wonder whether we will soon be in a permanent state of "Heatwave" due to the average temperatures rising so quickly via the influence of "Climate Change" when compared to the 1961-1990 average. This would be even more true in urban areas, especially places like London, with a huge expansion and high rise developments since the comparison period. One would not even have to factor in the ability of architects to create plastic-melting buildings to wonder if there might be a problem.

[Moonhawk]

zygalski said:

It got to over 34 degrees in August last year.
Earlier in the thread we were informed that it's been years since we had weeks of continuous hot, sunny days during a Summer. Last year we had a 19 day heatwave in July, so the previous poster is incorrect, unless he is referring to micro-climates.

OK - there was a bit of a heatwave for a couple of weeks last year - I still don't think the summer as a whole was particularly warm or sunny overall. It certainly didn't feel particularly warm up north for most of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_heatwave_in_Irel...

I do remember the 2003 heatwave as I was living down south at the time - temperatures got to over 38oC in some places. I think we bought an air conditioner that year (have only used it a couple of times since)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_heatwave#United_...

Edited by Moonhawk on Wednesday 9th July 15:22

[turbobloke]

See '1911' and '1976'.

Clearly all this carbon dioxide malarkey is killing off heatwaves.

Politicians ought to do something before we reach a tipping point and all the windymills freeze over.

Then again if it's a tipping point maybe they'll tip over.

[wc98]

wtf http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/07/...
if anyone ever needed just one reason to vote ukip,there it is.

article says :Figures are just out disclosing the millions of taxpayers' money the European Union paid in 2013 to unelected, unaccountable non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and other special interest groups, especially to the "global warming" lobby.
One of the most disturbing figures is the amount the EU paid the BBC -- €6,100,987 (£4,854,039) a sum in addition to the €24.4m (£19.4) in grants the EU paid the BBC between 2007-2012.
Grants to the green anti-industrial lobby included multi-millions to Friends of the Earth €4,188,230 (£3,332,220), WWF €5,344,641 (£4,252,279) and the RSPB €3,802,544 (£3,024,327).

[Mr GrimNasty]

zygalski said:

760 people died due to heat-related illnesses last Summer.
People have short memories....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hea...

"The heatwave has been responsible for as many as 760 deaths, according to official calculations, as the UK enters the sixth day of plus-30C temperatures.

The temperature on Thursday hit 31.0C, following Wednesday’s year-high of 31.9C at Heathrow, marking the longest heatwave for seven years."

I worked at Heathrow, you could cook an egg on mid-winters day if the sun came out. It's all the concrete. Everything is concrete.

For the record, at my location in Sussex, July 2013 started very cool 15-19C, had several weeks of warm weather 22-27C, then finished cool to average 19-21C.

Certainly nothing special.

I think the definition of heatwave has become somewhat abused and headlines distorted with urban temperatures, like the ridiculous transient temperatures reported in Australia last year caused by all the superheated air from the cities. It's nothing to do with CO2 induced global warming. It's everything to do with urbanization which produces dramatic 'heatwaves' that simply would not exist in a green field/forest on the same site.

[LongQ]

Why do we still have a parliament? It is becoming quite clear that the NGOs make all the important decisions and will accept no 'disrespect'.

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=8...

"Without even beginning to understand why it should be so wrong, the Independent is waxing indignant about Owen Paterson turning down "the offer" of a briefing on climate change from Julia Slingo, the Met Office's chief scientist."


Later .....

"But the fact that he did not, and that his insubordination has been reported by the Independent, is another part of the story. With the story being revealed by way of a Freedom of Information (FoI) request, this itself reveals a deadly battle being played out at the heart of government.

Highly placed entryists, within the various ministries, are charged with observing the behaviour of disobedient and free-thinking ministers, and reporting their deviations to a tightly-knit group of full-time activists employed by big-name NGOs, mostly in the animal welfare and environmental camps, where there is seamless planning and coordination.

The insiders, thus tip their handlers as to what FoI questions should be asked, which are then farmed out to anonymous proxies – who launch a volley of Exocets at the heart of government, the intention being to destabilise and weaken dissident ministers, and keep them in check."



So much for democracy - if we ever had such a thing.