Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 2
Discussion
Picking up on something already covered in this thread:
Warming-up theory sinks to the ocean floor
One of the more comical spectacles of recent years has been the sight
of scientific cheerleaders for man made global warming rushing round,
trying to find some explanation for the increasingly embarrassing fact
that, for 17 years now, global temperatures have been failing to rise
as their computer models predicted. The favourite theory they've
settled on, led by Kevin Trenberth, one of the UN's top climate
alarmists, is that the world has continued to warm up since 1997, but
that all that extra heat has somehow been hiding away deep in the
oceans, where we can't see it.
Now magisterial cold water has been poured on this theory by none
other than Prof Carl Wunsch, probably the world's most respected
oceanographer. He has produced a paper suggesting not only that the
warmists have no real evidence to support their claim other than
computer modelling, but that the deeper levels of the oceans have, if
anything, not been warming but cooling recently, thanks to climate
changes dating back centuries.
For once, the warmists can scarcely vilify Wunsch as just another of
those dreadful "deniers". So anxious is the Professor not to be seen
as a "climate sceptic" that, six years ago, when he was interviewed by
Martin Durkin for Channel 4 for its famous documentary 'The Great
Global Warming Swindle', he complained to Ofcom that, although he had
said all those things he was shown as saying, he hadn't been told that
the programme would be dedicated to explaining the scientific case
against global warming. Although Channel 4 produced evidence that its
intentions had been made eminently clear to him, Ofcom pusillanimously
upheld his complaint.
The great man would obviously have preferred it if his views had been
hidden away deep in the oceans.
Christopher Booker, Sunday Telegraph, 27 July 2014
Warming-up theory sinks to the ocean floor
One of the more comical spectacles of recent years has been the sight
of scientific cheerleaders for man made global warming rushing round,
trying to find some explanation for the increasingly embarrassing fact
that, for 17 years now, global temperatures have been failing to rise
as their computer models predicted. The favourite theory they've
settled on, led by Kevin Trenberth, one of the UN's top climate
alarmists, is that the world has continued to warm up since 1997, but
that all that extra heat has somehow been hiding away deep in the
oceans, where we can't see it.
Now magisterial cold water has been poured on this theory by none
other than Prof Carl Wunsch, probably the world's most respected
oceanographer. He has produced a paper suggesting not only that the
warmists have no real evidence to support their claim other than
computer modelling, but that the deeper levels of the oceans have, if
anything, not been warming but cooling recently, thanks to climate
changes dating back centuries.
For once, the warmists can scarcely vilify Wunsch as just another of
those dreadful "deniers". So anxious is the Professor not to be seen
as a "climate sceptic" that, six years ago, when he was interviewed by
Martin Durkin for Channel 4 for its famous documentary 'The Great
Global Warming Swindle', he complained to Ofcom that, although he had
said all those things he was shown as saying, he hadn't been told that
the programme would be dedicated to explaining the scientific case
against global warming. Although Channel 4 produced evidence that its
intentions had been made eminently clear to him, Ofcom pusillanimously
upheld his complaint.
The great man would obviously have preferred it if his views had been
hidden away deep in the oceans.
Christopher Booker, Sunday Telegraph, 27 July 2014
The BBC is fast becoming a constant source of amusement, like a naughty kid who fails to cover his tracks because he's incapable of thinking through the consequences of his actions.
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2014/7/30/c...
Commenter from Bishop Hill said:
The BBC had a very balanced phone-in programme on Radio 4 yesterday on fracking . It included the CEO of Cudrilla who batted away the doomsters with consummate ease. The highlight of the programme was when a paid officer of Friends of the Earth phoned in and was immediately exposed on air. The BBC alarmingly admitted that they knew his identity but had not deemed it necessary to tell the listeners. The real worry was the gap between the plausible and technical explanations as against the pitiful understanding of the public. It even included a GCSE student who stated that she had studied fracking at school, from her question it is more accurate to say, when she was indoctrinated with a load of environmental nonsense.
Jul 30, 2014 at 11:31 AM | Unregistered Commenter Trefor Jones
From here...Jul 30, 2014 at 11:31 AM | Unregistered Commenter Trefor Jones
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2014/7/30/c...
turbobloke said:
Picking up on something already covered in this thread:
Warming-up theory sinks to the ocean floor
One of the more comical spectacles of recent years has been the sight
of scientific cheerleaders for man made global warming rushing round,
trying to find some explanation for the increasingly embarrassing fact
that, for 17 years now, global temperatures have been failing to rise
as their computer models predicted. The favourite theory they've
settled on, led by Kevin Trenberth, one of the UN's top climate
alarmists, is that the world has continued to warm up since 1997, but
that all that extra heat has somehow been hiding away deep in the
oceans, where we can't see it.
Now magisterial cold water has been poured on this theory by none
other than Prof Carl Wunsch, probably the world's most respected
oceanographer. He has produced a paper suggesting not only that the
warmists have no real evidence to support their claim other than
computer modelling, but that the deeper levels of the oceans have, if
anything, not been warming but cooling recently, thanks to climate
changes dating back centuries.
For once, the warmists can scarcely vilify Wunsch as just another of
those dreadful "deniers". So anxious is the Professor not to be seen
as a "climate sceptic" that, six years ago, when he was interviewed by
Martin Durkin for Channel 4 for its famous documentary 'The Great
Global Warming Swindle', he complained to Ofcom that, although he had
said all those things he was shown as saying, he hadn't been told that
the programme would be dedicated to explaining the scientific case
against global warming. Although Channel 4 produced evidence that its
intentions had been made eminently clear to him, Ofcom pusillanimously
upheld his complaint.
The great man would obviously have preferred it if his views had been
hidden away deep in the oceans.
Christopher Booker, Sunday Telegraph, 27 July 2014
Which just leaves the inconvenient question how does water,which has a higher temperature inertia than air,manage to get heated up by the 'greenhouse effect' of atmospheric CO2,without air getting heated up first. Warming-up theory sinks to the ocean floor
One of the more comical spectacles of recent years has been the sight
of scientific cheerleaders for man made global warming rushing round,
trying to find some explanation for the increasingly embarrassing fact
that, for 17 years now, global temperatures have been failing to rise
as their computer models predicted. The favourite theory they've
settled on, led by Kevin Trenberth, one of the UN's top climate
alarmists, is that the world has continued to warm up since 1997, but
that all that extra heat has somehow been hiding away deep in the
oceans, where we can't see it.
Now magisterial cold water has been poured on this theory by none
other than Prof Carl Wunsch, probably the world's most respected
oceanographer. He has produced a paper suggesting not only that the
warmists have no real evidence to support their claim other than
computer modelling, but that the deeper levels of the oceans have, if
anything, not been warming but cooling recently, thanks to climate
changes dating back centuries.
For once, the warmists can scarcely vilify Wunsch as just another of
those dreadful "deniers". So anxious is the Professor not to be seen
as a "climate sceptic" that, six years ago, when he was interviewed by
Martin Durkin for Channel 4 for its famous documentary 'The Great
Global Warming Swindle', he complained to Ofcom that, although he had
said all those things he was shown as saying, he hadn't been told that
the programme would be dedicated to explaining the scientific case
against global warming. Although Channel 4 produced evidence that its
intentions had been made eminently clear to him, Ofcom pusillanimously
upheld his complaint.
The great man would obviously have preferred it if his views had been
hidden away deep in the oceans.
Christopher Booker, Sunday Telegraph, 27 July 2014
XJ Flyer said:
turbobloke said:
Picking up on something already covered in this thread:
Warming-up theory sinks to the ocean floor
One of the more comical spectacles of recent years has been the sight
of scientific cheerleaders for man made global warming rushing round,
trying to find some explanation for the increasingly embarrassing fact
that, for 17 years now, global temperatures have been failing to rise
as their computer models predicted. The favourite theory they've
settled on, led by Kevin Trenberth, one of the UN's top climate
alarmists, is that the world has continued to warm up since 1997, but
that all that extra heat has somehow been hiding away deep in the
oceans, where we can't see it.
Now magisterial cold water has been poured on this theory by none
other than Prof Carl Wunsch, probably the world's most respected
oceanographer. He has produced a paper suggesting not only that the
warmists have no real evidence to support their claim other than
computer modelling, but that the deeper levels of the oceans have, if
anything, not been warming but cooling recently, thanks to climate
changes dating back centuries.
For once, the warmists can scarcely vilify Wunsch as just another of
those dreadful "deniers". So anxious is the Professor not to be seen
as a "climate sceptic" that, six years ago, when he was interviewed by
Martin Durkin for Channel 4 for its famous documentary 'The Great
Global Warming Swindle', he complained to Ofcom that, although he had
said all those things he was shown as saying, he hadn't been told that
the programme would be dedicated to explaining the scientific case
against global warming. Although Channel 4 produced evidence that its
intentions had been made eminently clear to him, Ofcom pusillanimously
upheld his complaint.
The great man would obviously have preferred it if his views had been
hidden away deep in the oceans.
Christopher Booker, Sunday Telegraph, 27 July 2014
Which just leaves the inconvenient question how does water,which has a higher temperature inertia than air,manage to get heated up by the 'greenhouse effect' of atmospheric CO2,without air getting heated up first. Warming-up theory sinks to the ocean floor
One of the more comical spectacles of recent years has been the sight
of scientific cheerleaders for man made global warming rushing round,
trying to find some explanation for the increasingly embarrassing fact
that, for 17 years now, global temperatures have been failing to rise
as their computer models predicted. The favourite theory they've
settled on, led by Kevin Trenberth, one of the UN's top climate
alarmists, is that the world has continued to warm up since 1997, but
that all that extra heat has somehow been hiding away deep in the
oceans, where we can't see it.
Now magisterial cold water has been poured on this theory by none
other than Prof Carl Wunsch, probably the world's most respected
oceanographer. He has produced a paper suggesting not only that the
warmists have no real evidence to support their claim other than
computer modelling, but that the deeper levels of the oceans have, if
anything, not been warming but cooling recently, thanks to climate
changes dating back centuries.
For once, the warmists can scarcely vilify Wunsch as just another of
those dreadful "deniers". So anxious is the Professor not to be seen
as a "climate sceptic" that, six years ago, when he was interviewed by
Martin Durkin for Channel 4 for its famous documentary 'The Great
Global Warming Swindle', he complained to Ofcom that, although he had
said all those things he was shown as saying, he hadn't been told that
the programme would be dedicated to explaining the scientific case
against global warming. Although Channel 4 produced evidence that its
intentions had been made eminently clear to him, Ofcom pusillanimously
upheld his complaint.
The great man would obviously have preferred it if his views had been
hidden away deep in the oceans.
Christopher Booker, Sunday Telegraph, 27 July 2014
turbobloke said:
XJ Flyer said:
turbobloke said:
Picking up on something already covered in this thread:
Warming-up theory sinks to the ocean floor
One of the more comical spectacles of recent years has been the sight
of scientific cheerleaders for man made global warming rushing round,
trying to find some explanation for the increasingly embarrassing fact
that, for 17 years now, global temperatures have been failing to rise
as their computer models predicted. The favourite theory they've
settled on, led by Kevin Trenberth, one of the UN's top climate
alarmists, is that the world has continued to warm up since 1997, but
that all that extra heat has somehow been hiding away deep in the
oceans, where we can't see it.
Now magisterial cold water has been poured on this theory by none
other than Prof Carl Wunsch, probably the world's most respected
oceanographer. He has produced a paper suggesting not only that the
warmists have no real evidence to support their claim other than
computer modelling, but that the deeper levels of the oceans have, if
anything, not been warming but cooling recently, thanks to climate
changes dating back centuries.
For once, the warmists can scarcely vilify Wunsch as just another of
those dreadful "deniers". So anxious is the Professor not to be seen
as a "climate sceptic" that, six years ago, when he was interviewed by
Martin Durkin for Channel 4 for its famous documentary 'The Great
Global Warming Swindle', he complained to Ofcom that, although he had
said all those things he was shown as saying, he hadn't been told that
the programme would be dedicated to explaining the scientific case
against global warming. Although Channel 4 produced evidence that its
intentions had been made eminently clear to him, Ofcom pusillanimously
upheld his complaint.
The great man would obviously have preferred it if his views had been
hidden away deep in the oceans.
Christopher Booker, Sunday Telegraph, 27 July 2014
Which just leaves the inconvenient question how does water,which has a higher temperature inertia than air,manage to get heated up by the 'greenhouse effect' of atmospheric CO2,without air getting heated up first. Warming-up theory sinks to the ocean floor
One of the more comical spectacles of recent years has been the sight
of scientific cheerleaders for man made global warming rushing round,
trying to find some explanation for the increasingly embarrassing fact
that, for 17 years now, global temperatures have been failing to rise
as their computer models predicted. The favourite theory they've
settled on, led by Kevin Trenberth, one of the UN's top climate
alarmists, is that the world has continued to warm up since 1997, but
that all that extra heat has somehow been hiding away deep in the
oceans, where we can't see it.
Now magisterial cold water has been poured on this theory by none
other than Prof Carl Wunsch, probably the world's most respected
oceanographer. He has produced a paper suggesting not only that the
warmists have no real evidence to support their claim other than
computer modelling, but that the deeper levels of the oceans have, if
anything, not been warming but cooling recently, thanks to climate
changes dating back centuries.
For once, the warmists can scarcely vilify Wunsch as just another of
those dreadful "deniers". So anxious is the Professor not to be seen
as a "climate sceptic" that, six years ago, when he was interviewed by
Martin Durkin for Channel 4 for its famous documentary 'The Great
Global Warming Swindle', he complained to Ofcom that, although he had
said all those things he was shown as saying, he hadn't been told that
the programme would be dedicated to explaining the scientific case
against global warming. Although Channel 4 produced evidence that its
intentions had been made eminently clear to him, Ofcom pusillanimously
upheld his complaint.
The great man would obviously have preferred it if his views had been
hidden away deep in the oceans.
Christopher Booker, Sunday Telegraph, 27 July 2014
mybrainhurts said:
The BBC is fast becoming a constant source of amusement, like a naughty kid who fails to cover his tracks because he's incapable of thinking through the consequences of his actions.
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2014/7/30/c...
BBC link here...Commenter from Bishop Hill said:
The BBC had a very balanced phone-in programme on Radio 4 yesterday on fracking . It included the CEO of Cudrilla who batted away the doomsters with consummate ease. The highlight of the programme was when a paid officer of Friends of the Earth phoned in and was immediately exposed on air. The BBC alarmingly admitted that they knew his identity but had not deemed it necessary to tell the listeners. The real worry was the gap between the plausible and technical explanations as against the pitiful understanding of the public. It even included a GCSE student who stated that she had studied fracking at school, from her question it is more accurate to say, when she was indoctrinated with a load of environmental nonsense.
Jul 30, 2014 at 11:31 AM | Unregistered Commenter Trefor Jones
From here...Jul 30, 2014 at 11:31 AM | Unregistered Commenter Trefor Jones
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2014/7/30/c...
Guam said:
Hope they get this fixed before the winter, it might get a bit tight on reserves if not 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2712083/Bl...
Contractors dropping spanners while carrying out outage maintenance, although the smoke density suggests they might have managed to set the tranny oil alight which would be good going.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2712083/Bl...
So ye are saying Global warming and climate change aren't actually occurring at all? But why make it up? What do companies, individuals and governments gain for supporting this theory if incorrect? Not trolling just wondering as I've only been done secondary school 3 years and all we were told is that Global warming is gospel and no alternative viewpoints were put forward!
confucuis said:
So ye are saying Global warming and climate change aren't actually occurring at all?
No, climate has always changed, but here has been no warming for 17 years.confucuis said:
But why make it up? What do companies, individuals and governments gain for supporting this theory if incorrect?
Profit, research grants and tax.confucuis said:
I've only been done secondary school 3 years and all we were told is that Global warming is gospel and no alternative viewpoints were put forward!
Sounds about right. PS...didn't they tell you how to spell Confucius?
confucuis said:
So ye are saying Global warming and climate change aren't actually occurring at all?
Who said that?!In terms of climate change, global warming and cooling, we have a history measured in billions of years, it's nothing new and it's natural. Attributing it to humans has no credible basis and that's what is disputed.
confucuis said:
But why make it up? What do companies, individuals and governments gain for supporting this theory if incorrect?
Govenrments get lots of tax on the back of the myth, they also get to control energy (badly), preach about lifestyle choices and even control them, and on a wider note they think they've got a licence to redistribute wealth also via a myth. Companies setting up in the renewables arena get massive taxpayer funded subsidies without which many would never set up and those that have already done so would go bust without them.
confucuis said:
Not trolling just wondering as I've only been done secondary school 3 years and all we were told is that Global warming is gospel and no alternative viewpoints were put forward!
That's normal.Here are two statements that may be of interest, from official sources as they say. The first admits that there is no manmade warming visible in global climate data, the other illustrates one of the above points.
"Finally we come to the most difficult question of all: 'when will the detection and unambiguous attribution of human-induced climate change occur?' In the light of the very large signal and noise uncertainties discussed in this Chapter it is not surprising that the best answer to this question is 'We do not know'."
(IPCC SAR WG1 draft Ch 8 Section 8.6 and given the last ~18 years has seen no warming, it's still current)
"One must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy."
(Ottmar Edenhofer Co-Chair IPCC WG3)
That last one explains neatly why LongQ's political climate thread is the most apt. The science is junk and the politics is positively lethal.
If you have time, read more of this thread and others like it on PH.
Guam said:
Hope they get this fixed before the winter, it might get a bit tight on reserves if not
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2712083/Bl...
This could be a very interesting situation.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2712083/Bl...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrybridge_power_sta...
It's not yet clear how much of the overall generating capacity is likely to be affected but it is just possible that the entire plant might be uneconomic to repair.
From Wikipedia article..
"The units without FGD (1 and 2) were scheduled to close by 2015 under the LCPD.[22] In December 2013 SSE announced that Ferrybridge would opt-out from (not comply with) the EU Industrial Emissions Directive (2010/75/EU); requiring the plant to close by the end of 2023, or after 17,500 hrs of operation after 1 January 2016.[31][32]"
Ignoring questions about any role it may have in balancing the grid the rated output of around 2GW, if still current would be significant in any high demand period.
The bmreports web page suggests that demand forecasts show a capacity surplus of circa 10GW in the 2 most demanding weeks of the year - basically the weeks before and after the Xmas break. However as far as I understand how that figure is arrived at the assumption is made that all "renewable" assets will be in production at full rated capacity.
The rated capacity of metered disturbines is currently about 8.4 GW although we know that any likely output will be considerably less. Around the 2 peak weeks it can often be zero for extended periods.
Using rounded values, 10GW minus 8 GW means the margin might b e as low as 2GW at any specific point. Which is the rated output value of Ferrybridge.
I wonder how quickly they could build another couple of Interconnects to France?
My numbers are all speculative of course and we have no information about how damaging the fire may or may not be. It will, however, be interesting to see how the situation develops in the coming days and weeks.
confucuis said:
So ye are saying Global warming and climate change aren't actually occurring at all? But why make it up? What do companies, individuals and governments gain for supporting this theory if incorrect? Not trolling just wondering as I've only been done secondary school 3 years and all we were told is that Global warming is gospel and no alternative viewpoints were put forward!
The ludicrous situation is that children are being brainwashed with the doomsday AGW scenario, and yet even by the official records, despite every effort to swing the temperature record in the 'right' direction, warming stopped before these kids were even born.
Mr GrimNasty said:
True.
Seems like an excuse for my regular grid check - oh look, wind 0.88GW.
Funny how it's naff all nearly every time I check as a result of turbines being mentioned on this thread!
Amazing isn't it. Yet the place I work at is half shut down for outage yet it's knocking out nearly that! Seems like an excuse for my regular grid check - oh look, wind 0.88GW.
Funny how it's naff all nearly every time I check as a result of turbines being mentioned on this thread!
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