Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 2

[LongQ]

TransverseTight said:

I just read that PDF, sounds like a right old whinge. executive sumarry: scientists have proposed a hypothesis and collected some data in a not very vigourous approach, but maybe one capable of being understood by Daily Mail readers, er, well.... Ahem.

Have you ever noticed the GWPF have NEVER as far as I am aware commented on how good a piece of cliamte research is and how it is a good indicator of how the study has added to the number of credible papers on the subject. I can't claim I have read all their publications... only those that get posted as evidence on internet forums that claim climate change isn't happening or that such and such as report is dodgy or such and such an organisation isn't credible with some ad homs thrown in for good measure. Doesn't really sound like a Government policy formation group to me. More like a funded front for the fossil industry to mix it up a bit, create a source for quoations in the press. I have no issues with fossil companies wanting to put alternative viewpoints forward - but do it out in the open where the bias is more obvious.

Perosnally I'd like to see a law that states before a lobby company (charity my ass) can be quoted in the press they need to have a set of public accounts whoing the source of their funding. That applies to university professors and eco groups too.

Predictable stuff TT.

I very much doubt the "fossil fuel industry" would mind their level of funding being made clearly visible - although some "green" organisations might be less pleased with the associations that would be revealed to the "Daily Mail" readers and others. Heaven forfend that the Huffington Post congregation ever get wind of it.

On second thoughts I doubt many of those readerships would really care so long as there were enough naked celebrity stories to keep them busy trying to understand the sub-captions to the photos.

[turbobloke]

GWPF points out shoddy 'climate science' with political or 'p.r. for the cause' motivations, weak methodology and unsupported conclusions, then does so again - which is no surprise as there's so much of it about. As to sound science that the GWPF might be tempted to support with positive reviews, there's a perfectly straightforward explanation which is mirrored actoss the warmist western nations.

Hansard said:

Steve Baker: We have agreed here that science proceeds by conjecture and refutation, so in an attempt not to have a cloying consensus, will the Minister fund some climate scientists who wish to refute the current thesis?

Gregory Barker (Conservative DECC Minister): “I am afraid that I do not have a budget for that sort of research.”

The climate realist alliance between Australia and Canada may offer something at some point, we must wait and see. The UK is a dead duck.

Article dated June 2014 said:

UK climate and energy minister Greg Barker has laughed off suggestions the country could enter into an alliance against climate regulation with Australia and Canada.

A laugh a minute

[Blib]

I like the reference to "Fossil industry", TT. Rather akin to "Denier" .

Well done!

[LongQ]

Just for reference and the observation that the "fossil Fuel" industry is slightly important in the general concept of Energy production.

This from the bmreports information page. It has looked rather similar for the past few days whenever I have checked.





Peak Wind Generation Forecast

Tuesday 2014-09-09
Forecast Today
Time of Maximum Wind Generation
20:00

Peak (Max) MW
372

Forecast Tomorrow
Time of Maximum Wind Generation
21:00

Peak (Max) MW
635


Total Metered Capacity (MW)
8403

Data Last Updated : 2014-09-09 10:30 (GMT)


For this we pay how much in subsidies and payments to companies in a position to provide balancing and emergency cover for energy supplies when needed?

And still they want to build more ...

[Mr GrimNasty]

Ah welcome back TransexualTights, as open minded and logical as ever I see.

[mackie1]

This might be of interest:

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2ftwt1/iama_...

[AreOut]

interesting article (not mine nor do I agree with it entirely)

http://funestis.blogspot.com/2014/09/globalno-zagr...

[Silver Smudger]

AreOut said:

Let's go back to square one ....

[LongQ]

Silver Smudger said:

AreOut said:

Let's go back to square one ....

One of the more interesting aspects of the simplified view point is that the solutions are likely to be just as bid, over all, as the predicted problems.

The only real difference between them is that you can be fairly certain that that applications of the human instigated "solutions" solutions, whatever they turn out to be, will be bad because humanity will make it so given an excuse to do so.

[TheExcession]

LongQ said:

Just for reference and the observation that the "fossil Fuel" industry is slightly important in the general concept of Energy production.
[8< snip]

For this we pay how much in subsidies and payments to companies in a position to provide balancing and emergency cover for energy supplies when needed?

And still they want to build more ...

But yeah, but no, but, surely there is a t(r)ipping point where we will have so many windymills that they can't possibly not supply all the energy for all the EU banned appliances (no more greedy hoovers, hair dryers, plasma televisions, dishwashers, tumble dryers).

It's bloody obvious init, ban anything that needs electricity whilst subsidising st that can't reliably produce it.

Makes perfect sense to me!

[Mr GrimNasty]

Wow, wind doesn't seem to have done anything for the last 10 days now, currently 0.18GW.

This is lunacy as an energy policy.

[LongQ]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Wow, wind doesn't seem to have done anything for the last 10 days now, currently 0.18GW.

This is lunacy as an energy policy.

Earlier this year on the outskirts of Derby next to the A52 2 disturbines were erected. They got some kids a a local primary school to name them. Sort of Eco-grooming I suppose.

Anyway, I don't pass by very often but they are quite visible from several directions and in the few trips I have made in the past few months during which I can see them not once have I seen the blades going round. Until Sunday last.

Not an obviously windy day but the blades were turning. Just about.

I assume they were using grid supply to turn the things to stop them seizing up. If not it seems like a bizarre time to let them loose to do nothing much. Maybe they are not yet on the grid ... but really, what is the point of incurring the cost and then not being in a position to make any use of the 'facility' at all?


ETA:

AH! I have just found out why they are usually so static.

It's a larf ....


http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Spondon-wind-turbi...


The brief story tells it all when read carefully.

Edited by LongQ on Tuesday 9th September 23:33

Edited by LongQ on Wednesday 10th September 03:50

[wc98]

AreOut said:

interesting article (not mine nor do I agree with it entirely)

http://funestis.blogspot.com/2014/09/globalno-zagr...

which part do you agree with ?

[AreOut]

wc98 said:

which part do you agree with ?

this one :

Stability of our climate is affected by the chemical composition of our air (atmosphere).

[turbobloke]

Link said:

Stability of our climate is affected by the chemical composition of our air (atmosphere).

The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system.

Bearing that in mind you have to wonder what's meant by stability.

If it's the usual houghmagandy that the climate was stable i.e unchanging until we started adding more carbon dioxide to it, that's complete nonsense.

Climate change has been happening for billions of years, to greater extents and at faster rates than any time post-industrialisation.

We're at 400 ppmv now but the atmosphere has held more than ten times as much carbon dioxide in the past.

[rovermorris999]

Climate chaos again. We're going to freeze apparently. Perhaps. Or not. Depending.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/09/britain...

[The Don of Croy]

LongQ said:

ETA:

AH! I have just found out why they are usually so static.

It's a larf ....


http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Spondon-wind-turbi...

Thank you for that - the comments are good, including this which I fear is pretty representative of UK public in 2014;

NINECAR | Saturday, August 16 2014, 6:32PM
I am not an expert, and have not said I was. I can still remember the problems in America over Three Mile Island, which is a completely different process from what goes on down at Rolls Royce on Raynesway. I am not anti nuclear, and think Nuclear is a good way forward with more research in dealing with the waste.
Yes I have heard of grants but they are given to save money and the enviroment. If wind turbines in your opinion are so poor, why are so many still being built around the Country?

[Blib]

The Don of Croy said:

Thank you for that - the comments are good, including this which I fear is pretty representative of UK public in 2014;

NINECAR | Saturday, August 16 2014, 6:32PM
I am not an expert, and have not said I was. I can still remember the problems in America over Three Mile Island, which is a completely different process from what goes on down at Rolls Royce on Raynesway. I am not anti nuclear, and think Nuclear is a good way forward with more research in dealing with the waste.
Yes I have heard of grants but they are given to save money and the enviroment. If wind turbines in your opinion are so poor, why are so many still being built around the Country?

Wow. That's a grown up typing, that is. Incredible.

[Blib]

Guam said:

Beyond parody.

[Mr GrimNasty]

rovermorris999 said:

Climate chaos again. We're going to freeze apparently. Perhaps. Or not. Depending.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/09/britain...

UK weather in the 20th century was interspersed with short periods where severe winters were much more common, and longer periods where milder winters were predominant. Nothing will change there, so you can make any prediction you want about our winters, and within a few years, it will appear true for a while!

LongQ said:

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Spondon-wind-turbi...

Perhaps they need to make the Spondon turbine blades out of the stuff they use for stealth aircraft!

Un-smart meters! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29125809

Edited by Mr GrimNasty on Wednesday 10th September 10:40