Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 2
Discussion
Bit old now I know but the Time team special on this is still a good watch.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12244964
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12244964
The Don of Croy said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
...
This article is so bad, I'm surprised the BBC even ran it, but I guess the propaganda conveyor belt needs feeding.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-2947...
Now I'm confused - the article states that deep ocean is not heating, but contradicts this by saying they only monitor down to 2km. So if >2km down it's boiling they're not picking it up...?This article is so bad, I'm surprised the BBC even ran it, but I guess the propaganda conveyor belt needs feeding.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-2947...
Also, they are comparing data from Argo floats for one area with satellite readings - which sounds like conflating tree ring data with observed temp data to come up with a result.
Lastly, how does the satellite data - bouncing a signal off the surface and recording the distance? - allow for tides, swell, and the enormous thermal expansion below that might (or might not) be blending with other layers through processes and methods as yet undiscovered?
It's just ludicrous, even if we had massive global coverage of ocean temperature, it would take many decades, if not hundreds of years of that data to draw any conclusion. With anything they have at the moment, or are ever likely to have in their lifetimes, it's just bad speculation.
LongQ said:
A pre-assessment of Ed Davey's likely lecture at the Lib Dims conference today.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2783061/...
It's quite a good read and good to see the issues becoming part of the public debate. Probably no great surprises to most people here though.
That said I had understood that the Drax fuel was meant to be coming from Canada. It seems not.
Just so depressing ,having a moron in charge of important issues like energy something that affects our prosperity and standard of living greatly..http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2783061/...
It's quite a good read and good to see the issues becoming part of the public debate. Probably no great surprises to most people here though.
That said I had understood that the Drax fuel was meant to be coming from Canada. It seems not.
powerstroke said:
LongQ said:
A pre-assessment of Ed Davey's likely lecture at the Lib Dims conference today.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2783061/...
It's quite a good read and good to see the issues becoming part of the public debate. Probably no great surprises to most people here though.
That said I had understood that the Drax fuel was meant to be coming from Canada. It seems not.
Just so depressing ,having a moron in charge of important issues like energy something that affects our prosperity and standard of living greatly..http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2783061/...
It's quite a good read and good to see the issues becoming part of the public debate. Probably no great surprises to most people here though.
That said I had understood that the Drax fuel was meant to be coming from Canada. It seems not.
The big problem right now is that all of them, including Cameron's mob for the most part, are sharing much the same ideals. It may yet be a while until there are other ways to turn and we should not forget that the European collective dream has at least a hand on the tiller.
On the other hand the shale gas miracle may not happen either and even if it does could be short lived unless costs to the consumer continue to rise in order to make operations viable.
There are good reasons why the industrial revolution settled on coal as the source of prosperity in the first phase with oil and then gas driving the second phase. Nuclear was promoted as the third phase - "too cheap to make it worth metering" - but that evidently became a promise too far for many including, one imagines, those threatened by its presence in the mix.
The Lib-Dems aren't not stopping there...
Expansion of airports/runways to improve trade and keep up with the rest of the World?
Hell no!
Expansion of airports/runways to improve trade and keep up with the rest of the World?
Hell no!
Beeb said:
Mr Davey said that zero carbon flight is imaginable. Indeed there is already a solar plane - but it has wings the size of a jumbo and carries just the pilot.
Conventional engines are becoming more efficient - but future improvements are projected to save at most 35% of emissions per flight.
Other "green" options like biofuel are controversial because they involve cutting down tropical forests.
But Peter Chivall, of the Green Liberal Democrats group, urged the party leadership to "see sense".
He said: "We know that the only way you can restrict aviation and restrict the amount of greenhouse gases emitted by planes is to restrict the number of runways. And that's the way we have to go."
Speaking before the vote, health minister Norman Lamb said he was "really torn" on the issue.
Mr Lamb said it was important to weight "the imperative of tackling climate change" against the need to maintain trade links with the developing world.
Conventional engines are becoming more efficient - but future improvements are projected to save at most 35% of emissions per flight.
Other "green" options like biofuel are controversial because they involve cutting down tropical forests.
But Peter Chivall, of the Green Liberal Democrats group, urged the party leadership to "see sense".
He said: "We know that the only way you can restrict aviation and restrict the amount of greenhouse gases emitted by planes is to restrict the number of runways. And that's the way we have to go."
Speaking before the vote, health minister Norman Lamb said he was "really torn" on the issue.
Mr Lamb said it was important to weight "the imperative of tackling climate change" against the need to maintain trade links with the developing world.
nelly1 said:
The Lib-Dems aren't not stopping there...
Expansion of airports/runways to improve trade and keep up with the rest of the World?
Hell no!
The only realistic prospects for zero carbon flight are synthesised fuels like dimethyl ether, alternatives like hydrogen, ammonia, or even reforming carbon into whatever is needed; all of these choices will need plentiful and cheap energy and the greens have exactly no answers to the question of where this will come from. Nuclear fission may be able to provide what we need with some development, alternatively we need to wait out until fusion comes along.Expansion of airports/runways to improve trade and keep up with the rest of the World?
Hell no!
Beeb said:
Mr Davey said that zero carbon flight is imaginable. Indeed there is already a solar plane - but it has wings the size of a jumbo and carries just the pilot.
Conventional engines are becoming more efficient - but future improvements are projected to save at most 35% of emissions per flight.
Other "green" options like biofuel are controversial because they involve cutting down tropical forests.
But Peter Chivall, of the Green Liberal Democrats group, urged the party leadership to "see sense".
He said: "We know that the only way you can restrict aviation and restrict the amount of greenhouse gases emitted by planes is to restrict the number of runways. And that's the way we have to go."
Speaking before the vote, health minister Norman Lamb said he was "really torn" on the issue.
Mr Lamb said it was important to weight "the imperative of tackling climate change" against the need to maintain trade links with the developing world.
Conventional engines are becoming more efficient - but future improvements are projected to save at most 35% of emissions per flight.
Other "green" options like biofuel are controversial because they involve cutting down tropical forests.
But Peter Chivall, of the Green Liberal Democrats group, urged the party leadership to "see sense".
He said: "We know that the only way you can restrict aviation and restrict the amount of greenhouse gases emitted by planes is to restrict the number of runways. And that's the way we have to go."
Speaking before the vote, health minister Norman Lamb said he was "really torn" on the issue.
Mr Lamb said it was important to weight "the imperative of tackling climate change" against the need to maintain trade links with the developing world.
Examining fuel viability in detail is an interesting line to pursue as it reflects political reality, but that's unreal. The key point here is that politicians are still fast asleep in their dreamworld where climate change is a human problem that humans can 'tackle'. This idea is ludicrous at the most basic level, and unworkable even within the make-believe of (non-existent) manmade global warming, as pointed out very clearly by one of the IPCC's most faithful high priests, Trenberth. Examining political discourse on cc, particularly from the LibDims, is surreal.
Walford said:
So let the rest of Europe expand, sit back, and t*ss about saving the planet
Well, yes but obviously they are wasting their time and energy since we all know that sea level will be rising by a considerable amount in the next few years so The Netherlands will be under water. Right?Maybe the designs rely on flooding and the re-introduction of flying boats. (Solar Powered of course. Or maybe concentrated seaweed derived fuels?)
The cold waters of Earth's deep ocean have not warmed measurably since 2005 according to a new NASA study, leaving unsolved the mystery of why global warming appears to have slowed in recent years...it says somewhere.
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-na...
Did the models not get this right from 2005?!
Also, WTF? Slowed indeed. It's 'paused' - now we've got spin over the word paused, which means stopped but with the hint of a temporary nature. In the face of data and evidence these belugas just can't bring themselves to commit heresy against doctrine, preferring hearsay in favour of their gospel.
Flashback - in the infamous BBC R4 debate between Hoskins and Lord Lawson, when LL correctly described heat hiding in the oceans as 'speculation' this resulted in a green frenzy to get him banned by the BBC. Turns out from at least two credible papers that LL was spot on. Time to stop the oceans eating warming rowlocks.
Even if the oceans had eaten all the missing heat (it's out in space already) the Second Law should result in us getting some green taxes refunded.
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-na...
Did the models not get this right from 2005?!
Also, WTF? Slowed indeed. It's 'paused' - now we've got spin over the word paused, which means stopped but with the hint of a temporary nature. In the face of data and evidence these belugas just can't bring themselves to commit heresy against doctrine, preferring hearsay in favour of their gospel.
Flashback - in the infamous BBC R4 debate between Hoskins and Lord Lawson, when LL correctly described heat hiding in the oceans as 'speculation' this resulted in a green frenzy to get him banned by the BBC. Turns out from at least two credible papers that LL was spot on. Time to stop the oceans eating warming rowlocks.
Even if the oceans had eaten all the missing heat (it's out in space already) the Second Law should result in us getting some green taxes refunded.
Central & Eastern European Nations Oppose EU Climate Goals
With only three weeks to go before the European Council is to make a final decision on new climate goals for 2030, six Central and Eastern European countries have declared their opposition to the proposed targets. In March and June, the European Council failed to agree on the commission's proposal. When the EU government leaders meet again on 23 and 24 October in Brussels, they hope to reach a “final decision on the new climate and energy policy framework”. However, the ministers and deputy ministers for environment of six Central and Eastern European countries, declared on Tuesday (September 30) their opposition to binding targets for renewable energy and energy efficiency.
Peter Teffer, EUobserver, 02 October 2014
Polish Prime Minister Ewa Kopacz says she has told the European Council president in Brussels that Poland would not accept new EU climate change policies if they cause a rise in energy prices. Speaking after a meeting with Herman van Rompuy during her first trip abroad as prime minister of Poland, Ewa Kopacz told journalists that during the talks on Monday she laid out the “expectations of the Polish government at the European Council meeting [on 23 October]”. Last week PM Kopacz said that Poland could use a veto on any proposal that would cause electricity prices to rise for consumers.
Polish Radio, 07 October 2014
A European Union plan to label tar sands oil as highly polluting in its fight against climate change has been abandoned after years of opposition led by major producer Canada. A proposal published by the European Commission on Tuesday removes an obstacle to Canada exporting tar sands crude to Europe and comes at a time when tensions between the EU and top oil supplier Russia are running high. Environmental campaigners and Green politicians criticized what they saw as a step backwards. Greenpeace accused the European Commission under outgoing President Jose Manuel Barroso of putting trade ahead of the environment.
Barbara Lewis, Reuters, 7 October 2014
greenpeas are welcome to attempt supralunar-targeted flying fornication
Experts Warn Green Energy Policy May Trigger Mass Exodus Of EU Industry
Brussels must consider fundamental energy policy changes to prevent a mass exodus of industrial players, according to speakers at a conference held at London’s Chatham House on Monday. European industry has suffered recently in comparison with the United States, where energy-intensive players have benefited from rock-bottom gas prices as a result of the North American shale gas revolution...Some companies are suffering as a result of EU policy. German chemicals company BASF – which traditionally invests two thirds of its expenditure in its home country – recently said it would be investing more outside Germany than domestically over the next five years. “Europe should be asking itself serious questions about the viability of its manufacturing base as the foundation of that base continues to erode,” another speaker said under the Chatham House rule.
Tom Hoskyns, Interfax Natural Gas Daily, 06 October 2014
With only three weeks to go before the European Council is to make a final decision on new climate goals for 2030, six Central and Eastern European countries have declared their opposition to the proposed targets. In March and June, the European Council failed to agree on the commission's proposal. When the EU government leaders meet again on 23 and 24 October in Brussels, they hope to reach a “final decision on the new climate and energy policy framework”. However, the ministers and deputy ministers for environment of six Central and Eastern European countries, declared on Tuesday (September 30) their opposition to binding targets for renewable energy and energy efficiency.
Peter Teffer, EUobserver, 02 October 2014
Polish Prime Minister Ewa Kopacz says she has told the European Council president in Brussels that Poland would not accept new EU climate change policies if they cause a rise in energy prices. Speaking after a meeting with Herman van Rompuy during her first trip abroad as prime minister of Poland, Ewa Kopacz told journalists that during the talks on Monday she laid out the “expectations of the Polish government at the European Council meeting [on 23 October]”. Last week PM Kopacz said that Poland could use a veto on any proposal that would cause electricity prices to rise for consumers.
Polish Radio, 07 October 2014
A European Union plan to label tar sands oil as highly polluting in its fight against climate change has been abandoned after years of opposition led by major producer Canada. A proposal published by the European Commission on Tuesday removes an obstacle to Canada exporting tar sands crude to Europe and comes at a time when tensions between the EU and top oil supplier Russia are running high. Environmental campaigners and Green politicians criticized what they saw as a step backwards. Greenpeace accused the European Commission under outgoing President Jose Manuel Barroso of putting trade ahead of the environment.
Barbara Lewis, Reuters, 7 October 2014
greenpeas are welcome to attempt supralunar-targeted flying fornication
Experts Warn Green Energy Policy May Trigger Mass Exodus Of EU Industry
Brussels must consider fundamental energy policy changes to prevent a mass exodus of industrial players, according to speakers at a conference held at London’s Chatham House on Monday. European industry has suffered recently in comparison with the United States, where energy-intensive players have benefited from rock-bottom gas prices as a result of the North American shale gas revolution...Some companies are suffering as a result of EU policy. German chemicals company BASF – which traditionally invests two thirds of its expenditure in its home country – recently said it would be investing more outside Germany than domestically over the next five years. “Europe should be asking itself serious questions about the viability of its manufacturing base as the foundation of that base continues to erode,” another speaker said under the Chatham House rule.
Tom Hoskyns, Interfax Natural Gas Daily, 06 October 2014
SW Green Party drone says EU approval for a new nuke undermines renewables.
Good job something is.
There are probably many other links but this is where I got the story.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/372216e6-4ec0-11e4-b205-...
Good job something is.
There are probably many other links but this is where I got the story.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/372216e6-4ec0-11e4-b205-...
turbobloke said:
The cold waters of Earth's deep ocean have not warmed measurably since 2005 according to a new NASA study, leaving unsolved the mystery of why global warming appears to have slowed in recent years...it says somewhere.
As I posted the other day, they're shifting to try and say the ocean surface has heated more than they thought now!turbobloke said:
SW Green Party drone says EU approval for a new nuke undermines renewables.
Good job something is.
There are probably many other links but this is where I got the story.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/372216e6-4ec0-11e4-b205-...
Why do we even want/need EU approval FFS, we need out of the EU, fast.Good job something is.
There are probably many other links but this is where I got the story.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/372216e6-4ec0-11e4-b205-...
And by taking some of the cost burden off taxpayers, presumably they mean putting even more on energy bills.
Pin pulled, grenade tossed Antarctica has more ice now than before records began. Quick, throw it at Ed Davey!
Mr GrimNasty said:
turbobloke said:
The cold waters of Earth's deep ocean have not warmed measurably since 2005 according to a new NASA study, leaving unsolved the mystery of why global warming appears to have slowed in recent years...it says somewhere.
As I posted the other day, they're shifting to try and say the ocean surface has heated more than they thought now!When one shady story bites the dust they gotta launch another asafp!
motco said:
Pin pulled, grenade tossed Antarctica has more ice now than before records began. Quick, throw it at Ed Davey!
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