Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 2
Discussion
turbobloke said:
motco said:
Pin pulled, grenade tossed Antarctica has more ice now than before records began. Quick, throw it at Ed Davey!
Jeez. Naviragde Northridge United States said:
I'll try to keep it simple so that y'all can keep up. Antarctic sea ice is growing. Antarctic land ice is shrinking. The fresh water runs off from the land onto the sea. Fresh water is less dense than salt water so it floats above it. Fresh water freezes at a higher temperature than salt water. Thus, the increase in sea ice is caused by huge amount of land ice melting and refreezing over the sea. What? Too many multi-syllabic words?
I sense this guy's slightly riled.... 
ETA - they always seem so socially polite, too...
Mr GrimNasty said:
As I posted the other day, they're shifting to try and say the ocean surface has heated more than they thought now!
Having had more than the usual excessive amount of work to do at the time 
I've now taken a look at that claim. Thanks for posting about it. You may well have picked this up already but in fact the ocean surface hasn't warmed more than previously thought!Some believer in panic mode under directions from a high priest
has decided that the southern hemisphere ocean surface temperature sampling lacked faith (!) and...wait for it...substituted climate model gigo instead, result! More warming!"If estimations for temperatures in the Southern Hemisphere are readjusted to fit better with climate models, they increase, the scientists found."
So replace estimates with gigo and Gaia is pacified with the meeja lapping it up.
Mr GrimNasty said:
It just seems to be more desperate speculation, dressed up to sound vaguely scientific to get the headline - which is as far as most people get.
So the BBC et al propaganda can continue relentlessly.
That's exactly what rentapapers are all about, feeding supine journalists and capturing headlines.So the BBC et al propaganda can continue relentlessly.
turbobloke said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
As I posted the other day, they're shifting to try and say the ocean surface has heated more than they thought now!
Having had more than the usual excessive amount of work to do at the time I've now taken a look at that claim. Thanks for posting about it. You may well have picked this up already but in fact the ocean surface hasn't warmed more than previously thought!Some believer in panic mode under directions from a high priest
has decided that the southern hemisphere ocean surface temperature sampling lacked faith (!) and...wait for it...substituted climate model gigo instead, result! More warming!"If estimations for temperatures in the Southern Hemisphere are readjusted to fit better with climate models, they increase, the scientists found."
So replace estimates with gigo and Gaia is pacified with the meeja lapping it up.
I don't do TV these days but I spotted this piece about a recent Brian Cox TV program and found the review most interesting so I thought I would share it for your delectation.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-27844...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-27844...
LongQ said:
I don't do TV these days but I spotted this piece about a recent Brian Cox TV program and found the review most interesting so I thought I would share it for your delectation.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-27844...
Having read that, thank goodness it passed by unnoticed over here. Like you I don't watch (much) TV and no bbc at all. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-27844...
powerstroke said:
Oh bless the watermelons are vexed the pesky frenchies have permission to erect a subsidy farm sorry nuclear power station!! Seems to have upset some kraut type furriners too because of the govement subsidy
Oh well maybe we could privatize electricity !!!
Ed Davey got his moment in the spotlight - live from site! - to defend the deal by forecasting the massive increase in energy prices between now and when the plant is running (scheduled for 2023) makes the fixed 35 year leccy price a good deal...which is comforting coming from the Sec of State for Energy (a role one might have otherwise thought would be concerned over a potential DOUBLING of the nation's energy costs).Oh well maybe we could privatize electricity !!!
The man has an MSc in Economics. Perhaps he has some formula that shows how a developed country can thrive when energy prices double in nine years?
Foppo said:
Brian Cox is no mug is he. He is not the only one with that opinion why all the lies?
Not sure what the question is. Taking a guess, a brief response in summary form could be something like this.- some 'scientists' in less than eminent positions in less than emiment subjects in less than eminent institutions suddenly found their backwater had become a major political football with grant funding at unheard-of levels (for them)
- peer review was hijacked by this coterie and like Clinton creating toxic debt over many years, the literature built up a stock of manmadeup warming papers over the years which were effectively unchallenged
- peer review gatekeeping in place, The Team could taunt others with the comment "how many peer reviewed papers are there supporting your position', fortunately these days the whistle has been blown (Climategate 1 and Climategate 2) and many hundreds of highly credible papers destroying manmadeup warming junkscience have been published
- the media love a doom and gloom story and have been behind the manmadeup warming myth from the off, they are begining to smell a rat but the tide is slow to turn
- even at the outset the data wasn't onside as there is not and never has been a visible causal human signal in global climate data, so the 'scientists' pushed and ramped their computer models which do nothing more than faithfully reproduce there (erroneous) assumptions
- today, the temperature of the planet has fallen below the lowest of the computer model predictions and the junkscience ought to be confined to the dustbin of historical big mistakes, but political patronage has taken over
- political and activist groups saw that the now-evil tax gas was emitted more by nasty capitalist activities and wealthy individuals who buy bigger cars and consume more conspicuously, and saw an angle which would give them political leverage over matters they would never be able to get a handle on otherwise, hence the Labour web pages Red Pepper 'Green is the new Red' and the statement from UN IPCC official Ottmar Edenhofer "But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy" and "This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy any more" unfortunately Brian Cox missed that bit
- rebels seeking a cause joined in some time ago, as per the comment from former Greenpeace leader and co-founder Dr Moore "There were always extreme, irrational and mystical elements within our movement, but they tended to be kept in their place during the early years. Then in the mid-Eighties the ultraleftists and extremists took over. After Greenham Common closed and the Berlin Wall came down these extremists were searching for a new cause and found it in environmentalism. The old agendas of class struggle and anti-corporatism are still there but now they are dressed up in environmental terminology"
- there will also be people who genuinely accept the word of celebs and the bbc because they are disinclined/too lazy/too thick to check out what nonsense it really is
- governments have adopted populist policies banking on what they perceive to be a vote-winner to 'save the planet' and have as a result wasted £billions of taxpayers' money on junk projects propped up by junkscience, including renewables which will never be viable as an alternative due to the immutable intermittency problem
- there is as a result big money to be made nowadays in aligning with and promoting the manmade climate change myths (if you dare to follow the data and disagree you are vilified and ostracised) slowing the rate at which data and truth are breaking through, but it continues to happen almost on a weekly basis now even though there is much wiggling on sticks as increasingly implausible excuses are found for the failure of the myths e.g. 'the oceans ate our global warming' and other bunkum
- and finally, as Churchill indicated, a lie can get half-way around the world before the truth can get its pants on...even so here we are, with our pants on, where other people keep their pants is a matter for them - presumably their ankles will stay warm in the imminent global cooling phase
HTH
turbobloke said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
As I posted the other day, they're shifting to try and say the ocean surface has heated more than they thought now!
Having had more than the usual excessive amount of work to do at the time I've now taken a look at that claim. Thanks for posting about it. You may well have picked this up already but in fact the ocean surface hasn't warmed more than previously thought!Some believer in panic mode under directions from a high priest
has decided that the southern hemisphere ocean surface temperature sampling lacked faith (!) and...wait for it...substituted climate model gigo instead, result! More warming!"If estimations for temperatures in the Southern Hemisphere are readjusted to fit better with climate models, they increase, the scientists found."
So replace estimates with gigo and Gaia is pacified with the meeja lapping it up.
The Don of Croy said:
Ed Davey got his moment in the spotlight - live from site! - to defend the deal by forecasting the massive increase in energy prices between now and when the plant is running (scheduled for 2023) makes the fixed 35 year leccy price a good deal...which is comforting coming from the Sec of State for Energy (a role one might have otherwise thought would be concerned over a potential DOUBLING of the nation's energy costs).
The man has an MSc in Economics. Perhaps he has some formula that shows how a developed country can thrive when energy prices double in nine years?
Of course what he didn't mention is that DECC are having to redo all their figures because the price of gas is going down so all their projections for massive energy increases are complete horlicks. The only thing driving energy prices are the increasing subsidies required to keep renewables competitive so it's actually Ed Davey who is increasing the cost of energy.The man has an MSc in Economics. Perhaps he has some formula that shows how a developed country can thrive when energy prices double in nine years?
As for Prof Cox, I can't stand the man however I suspect his position is based on a view that all scientists are a model of integrity and anyone who disagrees is a dangerous flat earther. That and he has to protect his lucrative career at the BBC. The irony is that all he is doing is helping to increase the erosion of scientific credibility.
If you want to keep taking the BBC's shilling then you have to sing from the 'correct' hymn sheet. Ask Bellamy and Ball about that. I would imagine the money Prof. Cox is making from being a celeb is far in excess of anything he could earn by doing the day job. Science is shamefully poorly paid.
To be fair to Brian Cox, I don't recall him making any mention of human-related climate change.
Unless I'm mistaken, it was only natural changes that he was referring to, which is perfectly plausible when you align the increasing skull sizes with the evolutionary process of the survival of the most suitable genetic mutation in changeable times.
Unless I'm mistaken, it was only natural changes that he was referring to, which is perfectly plausible when you align the increasing skull sizes with the evolutionary process of the survival of the most suitable genetic mutation in changeable times.
Jacobyte said:
To be fair to Brian Cox, I don't recall him making any mention of human-related climate change.
Unless I'm mistaken, it was only natural changes that he was referring to, which is perfectly plausible when you align the increasing skull sizes with the evolutionary process of the survival of the most suitable genetic mutation in changeable times.
As I didn't see the offending programme I can't disagree and I'm more than happy to take your word for it Unless I'm mistaken, it was only natural changes that he was referring to, which is perfectly plausible when you align the increasing skull sizes with the evolutionary process of the survival of the most suitable genetic mutation in changeable times.
However...there remains the fact that Cox is indeed a most faithful true believer. He wants free speech as long as it toes the orthodox climate establishment line, otherwise it's "cack" presumably now a scientific term. Global warming is important...sure it is, to many people's bank balance.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/...
Also as we know by now the mention of climate change carries with it connotations of a human cause. Global warming morphed seamlessly into climate change when there was no warming. All that propaganda had a purpose and that was to assist people into misleading themselves by making an automatoc association of "climate change" with nasty humans.
rovermorris999 said:
If you want to keep taking the BBC's shilling then you have to sing from the 'correct' hymn sheet. Ask Bellamy and Ball about that. I would imagine the money Prof. Cox is making from being a celeb is far in excess of anything he could earn by doing the day job. Science is shamefully poorly paid.
A friend got to meet him recently. "Arrogant t
t" was the most polite thing she could say about him.turbobloke said:
Jacobyte said:
To be fair to Brian Cox, I don't recall him making any mention of human-related climate change.
Unless I'm mistaken, it was only natural changes that he was referring to, which is perfectly plausible when you align the increasing skull sizes with the evolutionary process of the survival of the most suitable genetic mutation in changeable times.
As I didn't see the offending programme I can't disagree and I'm more than happy to take your word for it Unless I'm mistaken, it was only natural changes that he was referring to, which is perfectly plausible when you align the increasing skull sizes with the evolutionary process of the survival of the most suitable genetic mutation in changeable times.
However...there remains the fact that Cox is indeed a most faithful true believer. He wants free speech as long as it toes the orthodox climate establishment line, otherwise it's "cack" presumably now a scientific term. Global warming is important...sure it is, to many people's bank balance.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/...
Also as we know by now the mention of climate change carries with it connotations of a human cause. Global warming morphed seamlessly into climate change when there was no warming. All that propaganda had a purpose and that was to assist people into misleading themselves by making an automatoc association of "climate change" with nasty humans.
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