Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 2
Discussion
rovermorris999 said:
"But modelling the exact impacts on a global scale is a fiendishly complicated business."
Does this mean the science isn't settled? Oh no!
The terminology used is quite telling. Surely 'science' would be more appropriate than 'business'? Unless this is all about making money?Does this mean the science isn't settled? Oh no!
It's from that BBC article that statements such as this "Working out the amount of carbon dioxide that lingers in the atmosphere is critical to estimating the future impacts of global warming on temperatures."
Really boil my piss. ESTIMATING THE FUTURE IMPACTS OF GLOBAL WARMING ON TEMPERATURES.
So glurballed wombelling is certain is it?
Seriously how do they STILL get away with pedaling this s
t?
ETA: Forgot to add. "Hungry plants are eating all the CO2 in our models, we just need to adjust the models..."
Really boil my piss. ESTIMATING THE FUTURE IMPACTS OF GLOBAL WARMING ON TEMPERATURES.
So glurballed wombelling is certain is it?
Seriously how do they STILL get away with pedaling this s
t?ETA: Forgot to add. "Hungry plants are eating all the CO2 in our models, we just need to adjust the models..."
Edited by TheExcession on Tuesday 14th October 21:23
Italy apparently promoting biofuel use.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-2961...
1%.
Amazing.
I assume someone with influence has worked out how to make that 1% mandate into a large bank account via political patronage.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-2961...
1%.
Amazing.
I assume someone with influence has worked out how to make that 1% mandate into a large bank account via political patronage.
Obama talks like a high school kid with his ums and folks and now stick it to climate deniers
Stick it?
https://mobile.twitter.com/BarackObama/status/5221...
Pesty said:
Obama talks like a high school kid with his ums and folks and now stick it to climate deniers
Stick it?
https://mobile.twitter.com/BarackObama/status/5221...
"SBS @sbscots 5h Stick it?
https://mobile.twitter.com/BarackObama/status/5221...
We have Ebola and ISIS taking over, and @BarackObama is worried about "sticking it to climate change deniers." Have mercy."
motco said:
I can see how estimates might have been overstating CO2 build-up, but surely they were checking their estimates by empirical measurements as time passed? That being so, they have known for years that the build-up is lower than the models suggested - if it is. Unless the CO2 concentration has indeed grown to levels expected and STILL the temperature has remained stubbornly flat. Oh what a tangled web they weave...
and here was me thinking among the very,very few things they actually measure co2 levels were reasonably accurate from mauna loa . are they now telling us the physical measurement of co2 is another load of climatology bks ? sounds more like another excuse for the lack of surface temperature rise in line with increasing co2 levels.wc98 said:
motco said:
I can see how estimates might have been overstating CO2 build-up, but surely they were checking their estimates by empirical measurements as time passed? That being so, they have known for years that the build-up is lower than the models suggested - if it is. Unless the CO2 concentration has indeed grown to levels expected and STILL the temperature has remained stubbornly flat. Oh what a tangled web they weave...
and here was me thinking among the very,very few things they actually measure co2 levels were reasonably accurate from mauna loa . are they now telling us the physical measurement of co2 is another load of climatology bks ? sounds more like another excuse for the lack of surface temperature rise in line with increasing co2 levels.The "average" assessment of atmospheric CO2 content as reportedly measured at Mauna Loa means nothing to the flora that can consume it according to their very local levels of atmospheric CO2 concentrations and the availability of other chemicals necessary for plant development and growth in both atmosphere and ground/water.
So, once the science provides for rather accurate cloud and CO2 density calculations along with perpetually monitored earth chemical content balance using a very small grid to cater for local variance there might be some possibility of obtaining the degree of accuracy currently claimed for some more the various calculations involved.
Whether the information derived from that will be of any use to anyone for anything much at all, let alone offering any sort of potential to control a chaotic climate system, seems debatable - if debate will still be allowed.
Poland Leads East European Opposition To EU Climate Deal
Poland and other eastern European countries are prepared to scupper the EU’s landmark climate change deal next week if they do not receive greater guarantees about their future energy costs. Spearheaded by Germany, Britain and France, the EU wants to seal an agreement at a summit on October 23-24 to ensure the 28-member bloc will reduce greenhouse gas emissions. But coal-dependent Poland and some of its neighbours argue that the EU’s proposals to compensate them for modernising their heavy industry do not go far enough. The opponents to the deal, led by Poland and the Czech Republic, but also including Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria, are ready to walk away from the summit if they are not offered improved terms. “This may fail,” Rafal Trzaskowski, Poland’s European affairs minister, told the Financial Times. “We have our well-entrenched red lines . . . If they are not ready to take into consideration our apprehensions, then we will decide later this week or early next week not to deal with the issue at the summit.” A senior Polish official involved with the negotiations said that Warsaw was “not confident” that there would be a deal next week. Marcin Korolec, Poland’s environment minister, said on Monday that EU countries were still “very far” from a compromise.
Financial Times, 15 October 2014
Climate Fears Exaggerated Says Ex-Environment Secretary
Predictions about the rate of climate change have proved to be ‘wildly exaggerated’, former environment secretary Owen Paterson will claim today. In a speech to the Global Warming Policy Foundation, Mr Paterson will highlight recent studies and temperature records that he says pour cold water on many of the most alarmist forecasts.
John Stevens, Daily Mail, 15 October 2014
Poland and other eastern European countries are prepared to scupper the EU’s landmark climate change deal next week if they do not receive greater guarantees about their future energy costs. Spearheaded by Germany, Britain and France, the EU wants to seal an agreement at a summit on October 23-24 to ensure the 28-member bloc will reduce greenhouse gas emissions. But coal-dependent Poland and some of its neighbours argue that the EU’s proposals to compensate them for modernising their heavy industry do not go far enough. The opponents to the deal, led by Poland and the Czech Republic, but also including Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria, are ready to walk away from the summit if they are not offered improved terms. “This may fail,” Rafal Trzaskowski, Poland’s European affairs minister, told the Financial Times. “We have our well-entrenched red lines . . . If they are not ready to take into consideration our apprehensions, then we will decide later this week or early next week not to deal with the issue at the summit.” A senior Polish official involved with the negotiations said that Warsaw was “not confident” that there would be a deal next week. Marcin Korolec, Poland’s environment minister, said on Monday that EU countries were still “very far” from a compromise.
Financial Times, 15 October 2014
Climate Fears Exaggerated Says Ex-Environment Secretary
Predictions about the rate of climate change have proved to be ‘wildly exaggerated’, former environment secretary Owen Paterson will claim today. In a speech to the Global Warming Policy Foundation, Mr Paterson will highlight recent studies and temperature records that he says pour cold water on many of the most alarmist forecasts.
John Stevens, Daily Mail, 15 October 2014
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29623648
The government's energy policy will "fail to keep the lights on", the former environment secretary has said.
Owen Paterson also said climate change forecasts had been "consistently and wildly exaggerated".
The Conservative MP, replaced in July's ministerial reshuffle, criticised "blind adhesion" to emissions targets.
The 2008 Climate Change Act aims to reduce the UK's greenhouse gas emissions by at least 80% by 2050.
Last month Prime Minister David Cameron said the UK was "on track" to hit the target.
But in a speech to climate sceptic lobby group the Global Warming Policy Foundation on Wednesday evening, Mr Paterson said the legally-binding target should be suspended and possibly repealed.
"The 2050 target commits us to a huge expansion of electricity generation capacity, requiring vast investment," he said, adding that the "huge" costs would be unaffordable.
"Even if it were forthcoming, the scale of the turbine-building programme required is so great that it could not be achieved."
The North Shropshire MP instead proposed the use of shale gas, combined heat and power plants, and "small modular nuclear reactors".
'Green blob'
Earlier this year, a UN report said the impacts of global warming were likely to be "severe, pervasive and irreversible".
Mr Paterson said he agreed with "the main points of the greenhouse theory" but added that the atmosphere had warmed "nothing like as fast as forecast".
After his speech, he told the BBC a "complete rethink" of Britain's energy policy was needed, calling for a "common sense approach".
Asked why had not spoken up when in office, he said he had been "a loyal member of the government".
The former minister has had a number of clashes with environmental campaigners during his time in office, criticising what he called "the Green Blob" after his sacking.
When he was replaced by Liz Truss in the reshuffle, Friends of the Earth said Mr Paterson had been "the worst environment secretary the UK has had for decades".
Mr Paterson's remarks echo those made in the past by UKIP leader Nigel Farage, who has also called for the Climate Change Act to be scrapped and for "green taxes" to be repealed.
Energy analyst Richard Black said Mr Paterson's intervention was the "the most radical verbal challenge to the cross-party consensus" on energy policy in recent years.
'Technology-neutral'
But Mr Black, director of the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit, said Mr Paterson was wrong if he was suggesting the Climate Change Act mandated wind farms ahead of other power sources.
"I have been through the Climate Change Act line by line, and can find no mention of renewables - or any other specific technology," he wrote on his blog.
"The Act is, in fact, studiously technology-neutral."
The Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit describes itself as a non-profit organisation that "supports informed debate on energy and climate change issues in the UK".
Its financial backers include the European Climate Foundation, the Grantham Foundation for the Protection of the Environment and the Tellus Mater Foundation.
Addressing the UN Climate Summit last month, Mr Cameron defended the Act, saying renewable energy capacity had doubled since 2010.
But the prime minister said there should not be a "trade-off" between reducing carbon emissions and economic growth and warned against "green tape" stifling the flexibility of businesses to choose which technologies were most appropriate.
Labour said it was proud of Britain's "leadership" on tackling climate change.
"To scrap the Climate Change Act now would damage Britain's influence abroad and put a halt to much-needed investment in clean energy here in Britain," shadow energy secretary Caroline Flint said.
The government's energy policy will "fail to keep the lights on", the former environment secretary has said.
Owen Paterson also said climate change forecasts had been "consistently and wildly exaggerated".
The Conservative MP, replaced in July's ministerial reshuffle, criticised "blind adhesion" to emissions targets.
The 2008 Climate Change Act aims to reduce the UK's greenhouse gas emissions by at least 80% by 2050.
Last month Prime Minister David Cameron said the UK was "on track" to hit the target.
But in a speech to climate sceptic lobby group the Global Warming Policy Foundation on Wednesday evening, Mr Paterson said the legally-binding target should be suspended and possibly repealed.
"The 2050 target commits us to a huge expansion of electricity generation capacity, requiring vast investment," he said, adding that the "huge" costs would be unaffordable.
"Even if it were forthcoming, the scale of the turbine-building programme required is so great that it could not be achieved."
The North Shropshire MP instead proposed the use of shale gas, combined heat and power plants, and "small modular nuclear reactors".
'Green blob'
Earlier this year, a UN report said the impacts of global warming were likely to be "severe, pervasive and irreversible".
Mr Paterson said he agreed with "the main points of the greenhouse theory" but added that the atmosphere had warmed "nothing like as fast as forecast".
After his speech, he told the BBC a "complete rethink" of Britain's energy policy was needed, calling for a "common sense approach".
Asked why had not spoken up when in office, he said he had been "a loyal member of the government".
The former minister has had a number of clashes with environmental campaigners during his time in office, criticising what he called "the Green Blob" after his sacking.
When he was replaced by Liz Truss in the reshuffle, Friends of the Earth said Mr Paterson had been "the worst environment secretary the UK has had for decades".
Mr Paterson's remarks echo those made in the past by UKIP leader Nigel Farage, who has also called for the Climate Change Act to be scrapped and for "green taxes" to be repealed.
Energy analyst Richard Black said Mr Paterson's intervention was the "the most radical verbal challenge to the cross-party consensus" on energy policy in recent years.
'Technology-neutral'
But Mr Black, director of the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit, said Mr Paterson was wrong if he was suggesting the Climate Change Act mandated wind farms ahead of other power sources.
"I have been through the Climate Change Act line by line, and can find no mention of renewables - or any other specific technology," he wrote on his blog.
"The Act is, in fact, studiously technology-neutral."
The Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit describes itself as a non-profit organisation that "supports informed debate on energy and climate change issues in the UK".
Its financial backers include the European Climate Foundation, the Grantham Foundation for the Protection of the Environment and the Tellus Mater Foundation.
Addressing the UN Climate Summit last month, Mr Cameron defended the Act, saying renewable energy capacity had doubled since 2010.
But the prime minister said there should not be a "trade-off" between reducing carbon emissions and economic growth and warned against "green tape" stifling the flexibility of businesses to choose which technologies were most appropriate.
Labour said it was proud of Britain's "leadership" on tackling climate change.
"To scrap the Climate Change Act now would damage Britain's influence abroad and put a halt to much-needed investment in clean energy here in Britain," shadow energy secretary Caroline Flint said.
turbobloke said:
...so ignorantly by dinosaurs roaming the political landscape.
Lord Turner alert! 
http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/106519/lord...
Andy Zarse said:
turbobloke said:
...so ignorantly by dinosaurs roaming the political landscape.
Lord Turner alert! http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/106519/lord...
a quibbler! Run for the hills - unless climate change gets you first.funkyrobot said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29623648...
'Technology-neutral'
But Mr Black, director of the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit, said Mr Paterson was wrong if he was suggesting the Climate Change Act mandated wind farms ahead of other power sources.
"I have been through the Climate Change Act line by line, and can find no mention of renewables - or any other specific technology," he wrote on his blog.
"The Act is, in fact, studiously technology-neutral."...
Does this mean that the authors of the Climate Act do not have any practical method for achieving their targets?'Technology-neutral'
But Mr Black, director of the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit, said Mr Paterson was wrong if he was suggesting the Climate Change Act mandated wind farms ahead of other power sources.
"I have been through the Climate Change Act line by line, and can find no mention of renewables - or any other specific technology," he wrote on his blog.
"The Act is, in fact, studiously technology-neutral."...
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