Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 2
Discussion
Jasandjules said:
Blib said:
I believe that an extra 15% on our energy bills in order to save the planet is well worth it. Who cares if our poorest and most vulnerable citizens are forced to live in unheated homes throughout the winter.
Indeed. And of course they won't live in those houses long because they will die of the cold. All the cold produced by the Global Warming...The concept of selective population control must appeal to many thinkers and planners looking for ways to to reduce the overheads of life. Early passing of those who would otherwise require extended and expensive support systems would not only be fiscally attractive but likely to solve other problems too - alleged housing shortages and unaffordable extended life health costs to name but two.
The idea of being able to attempt to explain things away by suggesting that one is "saving the planet" ought to be very persuasive if one can help it to gain traction. That the pressures on housing and health care - two of the prime factors that people are likely to care about, according to Maslow and his "needs" assessment, is clearly a bonus.
One might at one time have been interested in breeding a large population (relatively speaking) due to the need for battle fodder for use in endless serious local and international disputes. Moving away from that sociopolitical model seems not to have been accompanied by timely adjustments that would have helped to "balance the account".
Cleverly "Energy Poverty" can be blamed on the energy producers, thus in the case of the UK placing the blame squarely on the shoulders of the foreign owners of that capacity.
Maybe.
Insulation insulation insulation.
One of the failings of the governments energy policy has been the lack of effort tackling the unsexy stuff. Getting energy use down by advanced insulation techniques. Not just cavity and loft insulation, but getting floors up, getting serious about draft proofing using membranes and so on. It something best done either as a community group working together - or when houses are empty by people about to move into them.
I've done energy models on old Victorian houses and it's possible to reduce energy needed for heating by 90%. Once you get the work done properly. You then need to ventilate the house with active heat recovery systems. Although they use about 100W electric continuous, they save about 2.5kW of heat you lose by opening windows and using natural ventilation.
It costs about £15,000 per house to do the work so not cheap, but given gas bills are hitting £1000's the payback is usually in the 8 to 11 year range.
Nearly ever discussion that's about climate change focuses on how we generate electricity, despite 60+% of a homes energy use is used to heat the house, about 20+% for hot water the rest on lighting cooking and TV etc.
There's much bigger saving to be made by using less energy for heating than by generating electricity in different ways.
IF you are thinking of sticking in a wood burner, rethink what you are doing, and get some books on how to insulate as best as possible for your house type.
If you've got a house with cavity walls, it's still worth checking what's there. I did some work with a volunteer group in my area and we found an estate built in the 1980s had no insulation. The developers had not bothered, presumably it saved them a couple of hundred thousand on the build costs. They knew it was meant to be there as they made the cavities 100mm... presumably so the building inspector wouldn't notice. If the walls were thin, it would have been obvious. Never mind - we ended up getting 86 houses done in the end, with 100mm of cavity fill, and the owners were getting reductions on bills of upto 30%. Though some may have come from behaviour change too as part of the work was reviewing programmers and thermostat settings.
One of the failings of the governments energy policy has been the lack of effort tackling the unsexy stuff. Getting energy use down by advanced insulation techniques. Not just cavity and loft insulation, but getting floors up, getting serious about draft proofing using membranes and so on. It something best done either as a community group working together - or when houses are empty by people about to move into them.
I've done energy models on old Victorian houses and it's possible to reduce energy needed for heating by 90%. Once you get the work done properly. You then need to ventilate the house with active heat recovery systems. Although they use about 100W electric continuous, they save about 2.5kW of heat you lose by opening windows and using natural ventilation.
It costs about £15,000 per house to do the work so not cheap, but given gas bills are hitting £1000's the payback is usually in the 8 to 11 year range.
Nearly ever discussion that's about climate change focuses on how we generate electricity, despite 60+% of a homes energy use is used to heat the house, about 20+% for hot water the rest on lighting cooking and TV etc.
There's much bigger saving to be made by using less energy for heating than by generating electricity in different ways.
IF you are thinking of sticking in a wood burner, rethink what you are doing, and get some books on how to insulate as best as possible for your house type.
If you've got a house with cavity walls, it's still worth checking what's there. I did some work with a volunteer group in my area and we found an estate built in the 1980s had no insulation. The developers had not bothered, presumably it saved them a couple of hundred thousand on the build costs. They knew it was meant to be there as they made the cavities 100mm... presumably so the building inspector wouldn't notice. If the walls were thin, it would have been obvious. Never mind - we ended up getting 86 houses done in the end, with 100mm of cavity fill, and the owners were getting reductions on bills of upto 30%. Though some may have come from behaviour change too as part of the work was reviewing programmers and thermostat settings.
TransverseTight said:
Insulation insulation insulation.
One of the failings of the governments energy policy has been the lack of effort tackling the unsexy stuff. Getting energy use down by advanced insulation techniques. Not just cavity and loft insulation, but getting floors up, getting serious about draft proofing using membranes and so on. It something best done either as a community group working together - or when houses are empty by people about to move into them.
I've done energy models on old Victorian houses and it's possible to reduce energy needed for heating by 90%. Once you get the work done properly. You then need to ventilate the house with active heat recovery systems. Although they use about 100W electric continuous, they save about 2.5kW of heat you lose by opening windows and using natural ventilation.
It costs about £15,000 per house to do the work so not cheap, but given gas bills are hitting £1000's the payback is usually in the 8 to 11 year range.
Nearly ever discussion that's about climate change focuses on how we generate electricity, despite 60+% of a homes energy use is used to heat the house, about 20+% for hot water the rest on lighting cooking and TV etc.
There's much bigger saving to be made by using less energy for heating than by generating electricity in different ways.
IF you are thinking of sticking in a wood burner, rethink what you are doing, and get some books on how to insulate as best as possible for your house type.
If you've got a house with cavity walls, it's still worth checking what's there. I did some work with a volunteer group in my area and we found an estate built in the 1980s had no insulation. The developers had not bothered, presumably it saved them a couple of hundred thousand on the build costs. They knew it was meant to be there as they made the cavities 100mm... presumably so the building inspector wouldn't notice. If the walls were thin, it would have been obvious. Never mind - we ended up getting 86 houses done in the end, with 100mm of cavity fill, and the owners were getting reductions on bills of upto 30%. Though some may have come from behaviour change too as part of the work was reviewing programmers and thermostat settings.
Well done !! After a load of old tripe previouly you actually say something sensible One of the failings of the governments energy policy has been the lack of effort tackling the unsexy stuff. Getting energy use down by advanced insulation techniques. Not just cavity and loft insulation, but getting floors up, getting serious about draft proofing using membranes and so on. It something best done either as a community group working together - or when houses are empty by people about to move into them.
I've done energy models on old Victorian houses and it's possible to reduce energy needed for heating by 90%. Once you get the work done properly. You then need to ventilate the house with active heat recovery systems. Although they use about 100W electric continuous, they save about 2.5kW of heat you lose by opening windows and using natural ventilation.
It costs about £15,000 per house to do the work so not cheap, but given gas bills are hitting £1000's the payback is usually in the 8 to 11 year range.
Nearly ever discussion that's about climate change focuses on how we generate electricity, despite 60+% of a homes energy use is used to heat the house, about 20+% for hot water the rest on lighting cooking and TV etc.
There's much bigger saving to be made by using less energy for heating than by generating electricity in different ways.
IF you are thinking of sticking in a wood burner, rethink what you are doing, and get some books on how to insulate as best as possible for your house type.
If you've got a house with cavity walls, it's still worth checking what's there. I did some work with a volunteer group in my area and we found an estate built in the 1980s had no insulation. The developers had not bothered, presumably it saved them a couple of hundred thousand on the build costs. They knew it was meant to be there as they made the cavities 100mm... presumably so the building inspector wouldn't notice. If the walls were thin, it would have been obvious. Never mind - we ended up getting 86 houses done in the end, with 100mm of cavity fill, and the owners were getting reductions on bills of upto 30%. Though some may have come from behaviour change too as part of the work was reviewing programmers and thermostat settings.
now if you'd mention the need to melt down windmills and build nuclear power stations instead.... Won't change the climate but it might just save people from freezing to death.krunchkin said:
a banquet of b
ks here - more snow? less snow? no snow? who knows?
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/nov/07/sno...
Read a few of those replies, obviously quite a few of them dont hold passports let alone a pair of ski boots.ks here - more snow? less snow? no snow? who knows? http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/nov/07/sno...
Astounds me to think people believe alpine resorts will have no snow and snow cannons are something new, because of bulls
t warming.The damn things are there to extend the season for the slope owners to earn (hopefully) more money. They realise that the increasing number of skiers and the damage to the piste will need repairing - hence snowploughs, cannons etc - and they can almost guarantee open slopes with a cannon in most places.
turbobloke said:
Green Britain Means Green Poverty As 15 Million UK Homes Plan To Ration Energy Use Due To Sky High Energy Bills
More than 15 million UK households plan to ration their energy use this winter to cope with “sky-high” energy costs, according to uSwitch. The price comparison website, which surveyed 5,300 people, found that almost six in ten (57%) people have already cut back or plan to ration their energy use this winter in a bid to reduce bills. The research also revealed that more than a third of people (36%) who rationed their energy last winter said it affected their health and wellbeing.
Ian Silvera, International Business Times, 06 November 2014
As many as 69 per cent of UK households are worried about the cost of using extra energy this winter, with many bill payers claiming they would spend less money on food in order to pay for energy bills, the survey found. Around 45 per cent said they would struggle to pay their energy bills if they went up, while one in six says they're already struggling to make ends meet, despite the recent warm weather. A third are claiming they would spend less on food to make ends meet.
Natalie Wain, This is Money, 06 November 2014
So 60% of households are hoping the global warming pause will stop and temperatures will increase this winter. Then they can stay warm this winter without getting in debt. A certain paradox there.....More than 15 million UK households plan to ration their energy use this winter to cope with “sky-high” energy costs, according to uSwitch. The price comparison website, which surveyed 5,300 people, found that almost six in ten (57%) people have already cut back or plan to ration their energy use this winter in a bid to reduce bills. The research also revealed that more than a third of people (36%) who rationed their energy last winter said it affected their health and wellbeing.
Ian Silvera, International Business Times, 06 November 2014
As many as 69 per cent of UK households are worried about the cost of using extra energy this winter, with many bill payers claiming they would spend less money on food in order to pay for energy bills, the survey found. Around 45 per cent said they would struggle to pay their energy bills if they went up, while one in six says they're already struggling to make ends meet, despite the recent warm weather. A third are claiming they would spend less on food to make ends meet.
Natalie Wain, This is Money, 06 November 2014
Halb said:
Is this the Spot The Dead One contest...?
mybrainhurts said:
Halb said:
Is this the Spot The Dead One contest...?powerstroke said:
TransverseTight said:
Insulation insulation insulation.
One of the failings of the governments energy policy has been the lack of effort tackling the unsexy stuff. Getting energy use down by advanced insulation techniques. Not just cavity and loft insulation, but getting floors up, getting serious about draft proofing using membranes and so on. It something best done either as a community group working together - or when houses are empty by people about to move into them.
I've done energy models on old Victorian houses and it's possible to reduce energy needed for heating by 90%. Once you get the work done properly. You then need to ventilate the house with active heat recovery systems. Although they use about 100W electric continuous, they save about 2.5kW of heat you lose by opening windows and using natural ventilation.
It costs about £15,000 per house to do the work so not cheap, but given gas bills are hitting £1000's the payback is usually in the 8 to 11 year range.
Nearly ever discussion that's about climate change focuses on how we generate electricity, despite 60+% of a homes energy use is used to heat the house, about 20+% for hot water the rest on lighting cooking and TV etc.
There's much bigger saving to be made by using less energy for heating than by generating electricity in different ways.
IF you are thinking of sticking in a wood burner, rethink what you are doing, and get some books on how to insulate as best as possible for your house type.
If you've got a house with cavity walls, it's still worth checking what's there. I did some work with a volunteer group in my area and we found an estate built in the 1980s had no insulation. The developers had not bothered, presumably it saved them a couple of hundred thousand on the build costs. They knew it was meant to be there as they made the cavities 100mm... presumably so the building inspector wouldn't notice. If the walls were thin, it would have been obvious. Never mind - we ended up getting 86 houses done in the end, with 100mm of cavity fill, and the owners were getting reductions on bills of upto 30%. Though some may have come from behaviour change too as part of the work was reviewing programmers and thermostat settings.
Well done !! After a load of old tripe previouly you actually say something sensible One of the failings of the governments energy policy has been the lack of effort tackling the unsexy stuff. Getting energy use down by advanced insulation techniques. Not just cavity and loft insulation, but getting floors up, getting serious about draft proofing using membranes and so on. It something best done either as a community group working together - or when houses are empty by people about to move into them.
I've done energy models on old Victorian houses and it's possible to reduce energy needed for heating by 90%. Once you get the work done properly. You then need to ventilate the house with active heat recovery systems. Although they use about 100W electric continuous, they save about 2.5kW of heat you lose by opening windows and using natural ventilation.
It costs about £15,000 per house to do the work so not cheap, but given gas bills are hitting £1000's the payback is usually in the 8 to 11 year range.
Nearly ever discussion that's about climate change focuses on how we generate electricity, despite 60+% of a homes energy use is used to heat the house, about 20+% for hot water the rest on lighting cooking and TV etc.
There's much bigger saving to be made by using less energy for heating than by generating electricity in different ways.
IF you are thinking of sticking in a wood burner, rethink what you are doing, and get some books on how to insulate as best as possible for your house type.
If you've got a house with cavity walls, it's still worth checking what's there. I did some work with a volunteer group in my area and we found an estate built in the 1980s had no insulation. The developers had not bothered, presumably it saved them a couple of hundred thousand on the build costs. They knew it was meant to be there as they made the cavities 100mm... presumably so the building inspector wouldn't notice. If the walls were thin, it would have been obvious. Never mind - we ended up getting 86 houses done in the end, with 100mm of cavity fill, and the owners were getting reductions on bills of upto 30%. Though some may have come from behaviour change too as part of the work was reviewing programmers and thermostat settings.
now if you'd mention the need to melt down windmills and build nuclear power stations instead.... Won't change the climate but it might just save people from freezing to death.NicD said:
what do you call it when your post has been molested?
it is actually vey bad form to change a post and misrepresent the change within the quoted passage
Really? He quoted you, left what you'd written(albeit scored through) and added a joke. Where's the misrepresentation? People do this everyday on PH, usually for comic effect, and no-one bats an eyelid.it is actually vey bad form to change a post and misrepresent the change within the quoted passage
Mr GrimNasty said:
More utter garbage from a green cobblers insider. Your cost assumptions are way off/screwed as usual, most people won't get payback in their lifetime. Leaving that aside, it's very bad for people and structures to be altered/built like you suggest. Toxic even.
Are you for real? I've not mentioned which products, the fixing method, and technical details about dewpoints and vapour barriers and you are already calling me out. Talk about asumptions.Insider? Did you read my post about what I actually do for a living a page or two back?
I don't work in the industry but thoroughly research what looks like a good idea before spending my own money.
Once bitten...
TransverseTight said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
More utter garbage from a green cobblers insider. Your cost assumptions are way off/screwed as usual, most people won't get payback in their lifetime. Leaving that aside, it's very bad for people and structures to be altered/built like you suggest. Toxic even.
Are you for real? I've not mentioned which products, the fixing method, and technical details about dewpoints and vapour barriers and you are already calling me out. Talk about asumptions.Insider? Did you read my post about what I actually do for a living a page or two back?
I don't work in the industry but thoroughly research what looks like a good idea before spending my own money.
Once bitten...
Was on Radio 4, so must be true.
mybrainhurts said:
What's going on with these houses suffering rain water passing through the bricks and through the insulation into the rooms?
Was on Radio 4, so must be true.
i was going to add cavity wall insulation can and does cause problems with the damp. there is a very good reason brickies are (or were back in the day) taught not to drop cement on the ties between the walls when building them. to prevent transfer of moisture from the outside wall to the inside,that is the main reason there is a cavity in the first place.Was on Radio 4, so must be true.
That Mr Abbott must be a bloody fool...
Two independent reports, from the Climate Council and the Climate Institute, clearly showing the pain caused by snouts being removed from the big green trough
ETA the link, which is always useful to help folk understand the point you're making...
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-29982908
Two independent reports, from the Climate Council and the Climate Institute, clearly showing the pain caused by snouts being removed from the big green trough
ETA the link, which is always useful to help folk understand the point you're making...
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-29982908
Edited by Andy Zarse on Monday 10th November 11:08
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