Public sector watch
Discussion
sd477667 said:
Countdown said:
Yes they do.
No they don't, if I give you 30k and then you give me 10k back, you are still 20k up.And the poor taxpayer, rate payer whatever is 20k down as of course they don't need a 5 a day co-ordinator in the first place.
mph1977 said:
I just hope you never need any of the 999 services or the NHS or will you , like the freewibbler numpties be quiet when you are trapped in your wrecked car, laying in the gutter having been beaten senseless or when your blood volume decides to make an exit from both ends of the GI tract ...
Let's not forget the Forces fighting and dying in Afghanistan. Bloody public sector parasites with their extravagant pension. Elroy Blue said:
mph1977 said:
I just hope you never need any of the 999 services or the NHS or will you , like the freewibbler numpties be quiet when you are trapped in your wrecked car, laying in the gutter having been beaten senseless or when your blood volume decides to make an exit from both ends of the GI tract ...
Let's not forget the Forces fighting and dying in Afghanistan. Bloody public sector parasites with their extravagant pension. Equating a member of HM Forces with a 5-a-day Coordinator in order to justify wasting public money on the latter via the bravery of the former. Surely that couldn't happen, even on PH.
Nor do the skills of a paramedic answering an emergency call offset the need to reduce the massive amount of fraud and waste in the NHS, not to mention the appalling baby deaths cover-up currently in the news.
Critics of public sector shortcomings, including wasting other people's money, don't conflate or confuse. Desperate apologists clearly feel the need.
Nor do the skills of a paramedic answering an emergency call offset the need to reduce the massive amount of fraud and waste in the NHS, not to mention the appalling baby deaths cover-up currently in the news.
Critics of public sector shortcomings, including wasting other people's money, don't conflate or confuse. Desperate apologists clearly feel the need.
turbobloke said:
Equating a member of HM Forces with a 5-a-day Coordinator in order to justify wasting public money on the latter via the bravery of the former. Surely that couldn't happen, even on PH.
Nor do the skills of a paramedic answering an emergency call offset the need to reduce the massive amount of fraud and waste in the NHS, not to mention the appalling baby deaths cover-up currently in the news.
Critics of public sector shortcomings, including wasting other people's money, don't conflate or confuse. Desperate apologists clearly feel the need.
well you and your like could stop using the blanket ' the public sector' , if you mean Local Authorities say Local Authorities, if you mean the Department of Work Prevention say DWP, if you mean lay management in the NHS say lay management in the NHS ... Nor do the skills of a paramedic answering an emergency call offset the need to reduce the massive amount of fraud and waste in the NHS, not to mention the appalling baby deaths cover-up currently in the news.
Critics of public sector shortcomings, including wasting other people's money, don't conflate or confuse. Desperate apologists clearly feel the need.
Rovinghawk said:
Elroy Blue said:
Let's not forget the Forces fighting and dying in Afghanistan. Bloody public sector parasites with their extravagant pension.
Two separate & very different groups, aren't they? Both exist.mph1977 said:
see my reply above about the blanket use of the term 'the public sector' by the freewibblers and libertarians
Ah- attack the man rather than debate the point. Good technique- well played, sir.I don't know what a freewibbler is (I presume you are being gratuitously insulting), but how is calling someone a libertarian , ie in favour of freedom, any form of insult?
Returning to the debate, do you not agree that the public sector as a whole might benefit from trimming the waste & abuse?
Edited by Rovinghawk on Thursday 20th June 16:28
Elroy Blue said:
mph1977 said:
I just hope you never need any of the 999 services or the NHS or will you , like the freewibbler numpties be quiet when you are trapped in your wrecked car, laying in the gutter having been beaten senseless or when your blood volume decides to make an exit from both ends of the GI tract ...
Let's not forget the Forces fighting and dying in Afghanistan. Bloody public sector parasites with their extravagant pension. i suppose congratulations are in order though for possibly the most desperate and pathetic straw man effort yet. dying soldiers? really? get a fvcking grip man
fbrs said:
Elroy Blue said:
mph1977 said:
I just hope you never need any of the 999 services or the NHS or will you , like the freewibbler numpties be quiet when you are trapped in your wrecked car, laying in the gutter having been beaten senseless or when your blood volume decides to make an exit from both ends of the GI tract ...
Let's not forget the Forces fighting and dying in Afghanistan. Bloody public sector parasites with their extravagant pension. i suppose congratulations are in order though for possibly the most desperate and pathetic straw man effort yet. dying soldiers? really? get a fvcking grip man
And what of those public sector bods in places like Iraq and Afghanistan that don't fight are in no danger yet still receive bonuses? Those involved in creating a £35bn black hole with whacky procurement practices, what about them? They should be charged for their incompetence then taken out and shot by the soldiers whose lives their incompetence put in danger.
Of course we need binmen, coppers, soldiers, nurses, teachers, firemen, paramedics, doctors, librarians etc but there are all the other non essential types and only a weapons grade retard would think that all state jobs are essential and can't be done away with tomorrow without anybody noticing.
High time we had state austerity as we haven't come close yet.
Of course we need binmen, coppers, soldiers, nurses, teachers, firemen, paramedics, doctors, librarians etc but there are all the other non essential types and only a weapons grade retard would think that all state jobs are essential and can't be done away with tomorrow without anybody noticing.
High time we had state austerity as we haven't come close yet.
sd477667 said:
Countdown said:
Yes they do.
No they don't, if I give you 30k and then you give me 10k back, you are still 20k up.And the poor taxpayer, rate payer whatever is 20k down as of course they don't need a 5 a day co-ordinator in the first place.
You buy a service (Health, Education, Police service). Either you buy from Bupa / Eton / G4S and pay them direct or you buy the Aldi version using the Govt as intermediary, where they collect the money from you and use it to procure the services.
There is NO difference in principle between
A BUPA nurse or an NHS nurse
A private school teacher or State school teacher
A private security guard and a Police Officer
Both are paid by the Public (either directly or indirectly) Both pay taxes.
In theory you could have a pure Command Economy where the Govt procured everything and supplied everything. Or you could have a free market (zero state intervention, everything procured at an individual level). Somalia springs to mind.
So yes, the Nurse pays tax and NI regardless of who pays her wages.
turbobloke said:
since every minute a public sector worker is (supposedly) at work they're spending other people's money, if only on their salary and pension.
sd477667 said:
But public sector types don't pay income tax or NI.
They should all be given new contracts, 35% less gross salary and more realistic pensions like it or lump it.
Would mean HMRC could sign off a few of their staff too, win win.
I comment on what I read. A couple of examples that specifically refer to Public Sector workers. So do you want to slash public sector worker wages and pensions or don't you? They should all be given new contracts, 35% less gross salary and more realistic pensions like it or lump it.
Would mean HMRC could sign off a few of their staff too, win win.
sd477667 said:
And what of those public sector bods in places like Iraq and Afghanistan that don't fight are in no danger yet still receive bonuses? Those involved in creating a £35bn black hole with whacky procurement practices, what about them? They should be charged for their incompetence then taken out and shot by the soldiers whose lives their incompetence put in danger.
Of course we need binmen, coppers, soldiers, nurses, teachers, firemen, paramedics, doctors, librarians etc but there are all the other non essential types and only a weapons grade retard would think that all state jobs are essential and can't be done away with tomorrow without anybody noticing.
High time we had state austerity as we haven't come close yet.
but do we need all the binmen, coppers, soldiers, nurses, teachers, firemen, paramedics, doctors, librarians we have and do they have to be paid as much as they do given the 'public service' badge that's so often worn so heavily? Of course we need binmen, coppers, soldiers, nurses, teachers, firemen, paramedics, doctors, librarians etc but there are all the other non essential types and only a weapons grade retard would think that all state jobs are essential and can't be done away with tomorrow without anybody noticing.
High time we had state austerity as we haven't come close yet.
Countdown said:
No it isn't.
You buy a service (Health, Education, Police service). Either you buy from Bupa / Eton / G4S and pay them direct or you buy the Aldi version using the Govt as intermediary, where they collect the money from you and use it to procure the services.
There is NO difference in principle between
A BUPA nurse or an NHS nurse
A private school teacher or State school teacher
A private security guard and a Police Officer
Both are paid by the Public (either directly or indirectly) Both pay taxes.
In theory you could have a pure Command Economy where the Govt procured everything and supplied everything. Or you could have a free market (zero state intervention, everything procured at an individual level). Somalia springs to mind.
So yes, the Nurse pays tax and NI regardless of who pays her wages.
Cool, my kids go to fee paying schools, I have private medical cover etc so I don't have to pay any tax, I shall inform HMRC immediately You buy a service (Health, Education, Police service). Either you buy from Bupa / Eton / G4S and pay them direct or you buy the Aldi version using the Govt as intermediary, where they collect the money from you and use it to procure the services.
There is NO difference in principle between
A BUPA nurse or an NHS nurse
A private school teacher or State school teacher
A private security guard and a Police Officer
Both are paid by the Public (either directly or indirectly) Both pay taxes.
In theory you could have a pure Command Economy where the Govt procured everything and supplied everything. Or you could have a free market (zero state intervention, everything procured at an individual level). Somalia springs to mind.
So yes, the Nurse pays tax and NI regardless of who pays her wages.
Oh hang on...........
Taxation for the public sector is just an adjustment nothing more nothing less they do not pay taxes they just give some of the money we give them back.
Elroy Blue said:
turbobloke said:
since every minute a public sector worker is (supposedly) at work they're spending other people's money, if only on their salary and pension.
sd477667 said:
But public sector types don't pay income tax or NI.
They should all be given new contracts, 35% less gross salary and more realistic pensions like it or lump it.
Would mean HMRC could sign off a few of their staff too, win win.
I comment on what I read. A couple of examples that specifically refer to Public Sector workers. So do you want to slash public sector worker wages and pensions or don't you? They should all be given new contracts, 35% less gross salary and more realistic pensions like it or lump it.
Would mean HMRC could sign off a few of their staff too, win win.
My post about public sector workers as cited above simply pointed out that when at work, public money is being spent i.e. other people's money.
There's no other way of saying it.
As to the critical bits, assuming the wrong thing - as you and others have done here - is merely a repetition of the same tactic used when people comment about benefits scroungers.
It's perfectly well understood that not all benefits recipients are scroungers, so it doesn't need spelling out in every post. The clue is in the term scrounger, it applies to those who are scroungers but nobody else.
A similar situation pertains with public sector roles. Those who rightly criticise the waste of other people's money on non-jobs are not, repeat not, by implication criticising armed forces personnel or paramedics.
The need for this basic and totally obvious rationale to be explained yet again is due to nothing more than a contrived or blinkered approach from public sector apologists.
In terms of public sector pensions there are or have been reviews and revisions, which is fine by me as the 'after' position remains generous in what I've seen so far.
Elroy Blue said:
I comment on what I read. A couple of examples that specifically refer to Public Sector workers. So do you want to slash public sector worker wages and pensions or don't you?
Yes, esp pensions as they are far too generous.But the non essentials can go altogether which will mean that the essentials don't have to have such a big cut.
pork911 said:
but do we need all the binmen, coppers, soldiers, nurses, teachers, firemen, paramedics, doctors, librarians we have and do they have to be paid as much as they do given the 'public service' badge that's so often worn so heavily?
Binmen for example get paid about the same as teachers, how can that be right? It isn't of course.UK Doctors are grossly over paid too, pay them less and then we can pay the nurses / porters etc more.
There are a finite amount of resources, paying one group too much will either mean another get paid less or the wealth creators in the private sector get taxed too much (like under Liebour).
sd477667 said:
Cool, my kids go to fee paying schools, I have private medical cover etc so I don't have to pay any tax, I shall inform HMRC immediately
So you've opted out. What happens if you lose your job? Are you going to forego any State services on the grounds that you've not paid in?Oh hang on...........
sd477667 said:
Taxation for the public sector is just an adjustment nothing more nothing less they do not pay taxes they just give some of the money we give them back.
No it isn't. Are taxes paid by a BUPA nurse different to taxes paid by an NHS nurse?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff