Public sector watch

[NPI]

chris watton said:

I'd hazard a guess and say less hours for same pay=pay rise?

I'd say (as a fact and not a guess): less hours for same pay = same pay.

People's bills won't reduce because they're working less hours.

[chris watton]

NPI said:

chris watton said:

I'd hazard a guess and say less hours for same pay=pay rise?

I'd say (as a fact and not a guess): less hours for same pay = same pay.

People's bills won't reduce because they're working less hours.

I will believe you if you supply a link to your fact.

[Rovinghawk]

NPI said:

I'd say (as a fact and not a guess): less hours for same pay = same pay = better hourly rate

EFA

[Du1point8]

NPI said:

Du1point8 said:

Hope no-one in public secotr sees what they are doing in Sweden with the trialling of 6 hour working days to reduce sick leave and raise moral.

Oh and did I mention they are all still on full pay, so they work less hours and get a huge pay rise to boot.

How is getting the same pay "a huge pay rise"?

You work for £200 a day, which is on an average 8 hour working day is £25 per hour.

On a 6hour working day this is now £33.33 per hour or a 33% increase in hourly wage to cover doing less work.

[NPI]

chris watton said:

I will believe you if you supply a link to your fact.

Blimey, is that what the world has reduced to? People can't work things out for themselves so they need to see a link.

[NPI]

Du1point8 said:

You work for £200 a day, which is on an average 8 hour working day is £25 per hour.

On a 6hour working day this is now £33.33 per hour or a 33% increase in hourly wage to cover doing less work.

Of course that's true. But who thinks in terms of their hourly rate? Most people think about their weekly or monthly pay. I doubt if any of the employed people on PH have a clue off the top of their heads how much an hour they get.

As I said before, those employees bills won't reduce (arguably they might go up if they're at home for 2hrs more per day).

[chris watton]

NPI said:

chris watton said:

I will believe you if you supply a link to your fact.

Blimey, is that what the world has reduced to? People can't work things out for themselves so they need to see a link.

But you stated your post as 'fact' - but I only have your word for that. If you didn't want me to pick you up on that, you should have used the words 'in my opinion'.

[Du1point8]

NPI said:

Du1point8 said:

You work for £200 a day, which is on an average 8 hour working day is £25 per hour.

On a 6hour working day this is now £33.33 per hour or a 33% increase in hourly wage to cover doing less work.

Of course that's true. But who thinks in terms of their hourly rate? Most people think about their weekly or monthly pay. I doubt if any of the employed people on PH have a clue off the top of their heads how much an hour they get.

As I said before, those employees bills won't reduce (arguably they might go up if they're at home for 2hrs more per day).

All people I know do, as do most temping staff that are hired on hourly rates and get a payrise worked out in hourly increases. Its I would work out the increase as opposed to saying 'Yay... I got £500 per year payrise'

In the UK the follow on effect would be that the public sector would hire more people to cover the work that is still outstanding by reducing the working day by 25% for its staff.

Result being = more cost to the tax payers.

[Du1point8]

NPI said:

Du1point8 said:

You work for £200 a day, which is on an average 8 hour working day is £25 per hour.

On a 6hour working day this is now £33.33 per hour or a 33% increase in hourly wage to cover doing less work.

Of course that's true. But who thinks in terms of their hourly rate? Most people think about their weekly or monthly pay. I doubt if any of the employed people on PH have a clue off the top of their heads how much an hour they get.

As I said before, those employees bills won't reduce (arguably they might go up if they're at home for 2hrs more per day).

Also if I were to become part time staff, should I expect my pay to stay the same as my bills dont increase, they would go up.

If flexi timing a 6 hour day, I would be taking off every thursday afternoon and Friday... basically the same as a part timer or key time staff who get paid less.

[Digga]

NPI said:

Of course that's true. But who thinks in terms of their hourly rate?

Go to most private sector factories and warehouses and see how well the reverse goes down.

Better yet, go try it in a fabrication shop or foundry. Please.

[NPI]

Du1point8 said:

Also if I were to become part time staff, should I expect my pay to stay the same as my bills dont increase, they would go up.

Can you write that again in a way that makes sense, please?

Du1point8 said:

If flexi timing a 6 hour day, I would be taking off every thursday afternoon and Friday... basically the same as a part timer or key time staff who get paid less.

Of course, but it would somewhat defeat the point of the trial if people still worked 8hrs and then flexi'd off a whole day.

[NPI]

Digga said:

NPI said:

Of course that's true. But who thinks in terms of their hourly rate?

Go to most private sector factories and warehouses and see how well the reverse goes down.

Better yet, go try it in a fabrication shop or foundry. Please.

Well, I did say "employed people on PH".

Would the kind of people you're talking about not realise that they're weekly pay was going to drop 25% if they moved from 8 to 6hrs on the same rate?

[Du1point8]

NPI said:

Du1point8 said:

Also if I were to become part time staff, should I expect my pay to stay the same as my bills dont increase, they would go up.

Can you write that again in a way that makes sense, please?

Du1point8 said:

If flexi timing a 6 hour day, I would be taking off every thursday afternoon and Friday... basically the same as a part timer or key time staff who get paid less.

Of course, but it would somewhat defeat the point of the trial if people still worked 8hrs and then flexi'd off a whole day.

I can do it in crayon for you too if you like.

cause its difficult to understand said:

Also if I were to become part time staff, should I expect my pay to stay the same as my bills dont decrease, they would go up.

One typo... highlighted it for you just in case.

[5CylTurbo]

Fab32 said:

The thing is you have no idea what you are talking about and it’s impossible to have a reasonable debate with somebody as badly informed as you and who is so entrenched in their opinion.

Do you have any idea what a referral and assessment social worker does? The timescales involved for the assessment/visits? The legalities of the work undertaken? How difficult it is to managing risk? Have you read the Munro report? Have you read the working together guidance? Have you read any serious case reviews?

Or is your opinion completely informed by news reports?

Please, please explain why an ex police officer or serviceman would be better placed than a social worker to undertake work with families?

My step sister was a social worker, she quit because the people above her were utterly useless and she spent far too much time form filling rather than actually doing what she was meant to.

Are you a social worker then?

[5CylTurbo]

NPI said:

Blimey, is that what the world has reduced to? People can't work things out for themselves so they need to see a link.

Oh yes

no link = doesn't exist

some need a link to prove tomorrow is Thursday or that night follows day

and the link has to be from the Guardian otherwise it is made up

[Rovinghawk]

Fab32 said:

Please, please explain why an ex police officer or serviceman would be better placed than a social worker to undertake work with families?

Allowing for the scale of some of the errors ("missed opportunities"), there is a case for suggesting two apprentices and a chimpanzee could have done no worse in some cases.

Lessons do not appear to ever be learned and those responsible seem to retire on handsome pensions.

I suggest that some form of change is required- all ideas for improvement welcome for consideration.

[NPI]

Rovinghawk said:

I suggest that some form of change is required-

Hmmm...I don't suppose anyone has ever thought of that.

[Fab32]

Rovinghawk said:

Fab32 said:

Please, please explain why an ex police officer or serviceman would be better placed than a social worker to undertake work with families?

Allowing for the scale of some of the errors ("missed opportunities"), there is a case for suggesting two apprentices and a chimpanzee could have done no worse in some cases.

Lessons do not appear to ever be learned and those responsible seem to retire on handsome pensions.

I suggest that some form of change is required- all ideas for improvement welcome for consideration.

If you look at a couple of my previous posts you will see I have made some suggestions, I think there needs to be some distinction between the people doing the work and the people so far up the ‘food chain’ they have no idea what goes on.

There are obviously issues but some of the links posted in this thread are laughable. The one where a mother let her toddler have baths with her boyfriend (described as a “drifter”).

[Fab32]

5CylTurbo said:

Fab32 said:

The thing is you have no idea what you are talking about and it’s impossible to have a reasonable debate with somebody as badly informed as you and who is so entrenched in their opinion.

Do you have any idea what a referral and assessment social worker does? The timescales involved for the assessment/visits? The legalities of the work undertaken? How difficult it is to managing risk? Have you read the Munro report? Have you read the working together guidance? Have you read any serious case reviews?

Or is your opinion completely informed by news reports?

Please, please explain why an ex police officer or serviceman would be better placed than a social worker to undertake work with families?

My step sister was a social worker, she quit because the people above her were utterly useless and she spent far too much time form filling rather than actually doing what she was meant to.

Are you a social worker then?

I am, please note I have answered your question but you have not answered any of mine. Could you answer my questions above and also what do you do for a living?

[Rovinghawk]

NPI said:

Rovinghawk said:

I suggest that some form of change is required-

Hmmm...I don't suppose anyone has ever thought of that.

Allow me to clarify- some form of improvement is required.

AFAIK this is a new & radical thought as they don't seem to have got any better despite scandals & outcries.