Public sector watch

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Fab32

380 posts

132 months

Thursday 10th April 2014
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Answering any of my questions or are you conceding you know very little?

SpeedMattersNot

4,506 posts

195 months

Friday 11th April 2014
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5CylTurbo said:
Countdown said:
5CylTurbo said:
Clearly not excellent if they only rate 'good' - bit of a contradiction isn't it?
Not at all. Only an ill-informed nitwit would consider the Ofsted rating as the primary indicator of how good or bad a school is. It certainly has its place but a lot of Headteachers know how to play the Ofsted system
Yes of course one that rates Good is a lot better than one that rates Outstanding, not to mention getting the best grades in the league tables, guess the better the grades the worse the teachers jester

ffs



Eton, Harrow etc not a patch on Haringey Comp of course because they score better in league tables and ofsted they must be worse schools

you just couldn't make this crap up

Ofsted results are similar to the 'What Car - car of the year award'. Only someone with very little understanding of cars, would take that result seriously. Also, in regard to teachers being graded by Ofsted, this can be entirely misleading. A 'good' teacher in my opinion is someone who can deliver good lessons for a mix of students, every lesson, whilst keeping on top of marking, inspiring the students on and off their subject and doing lots of extra-curricular activities - something Ofsted doesn't take into consideration.

League tables are a separate issue. A private school with cherry picked students from affluent families will (and should) perform better than a state school in a decaying council estate on all aspects; attendance, facilities and of course results. The problem is, that isn't anything to do with the teachers. You could place the best teachers in the country at the worst school and the worst teachers at the best performing school and the results would only marginally be affected.

People who teach in the majority of private schools do so for an easier ride, not because they're better teachers (or people).

5CylTurbo

318 posts

125 months

Friday 11th April 2014
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Countdown said:
I see what you mean about some people not being able to read or write.

What do you think "not the PRIMARY indicator" and "it has its place" mean, in the context of my post?

Ps league tables can be manipulated. You send all the less academically able on vocational courses at the local college.
So glad you agree, better schools, better teachers = better ofsted reports and better results.

Glad we got there in the end, as you were then.

Just as well really as you'd have to be a right twonk to think otherwise.

NPI

1,310 posts

123 months

Friday 11th April 2014
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5CylTurbo said:
So glad you agree, better schools, better teachers = better ofsted reports and better results.
It's a shame most private schools don't use the same scheme.

5CylTurbo

318 posts

125 months

Friday 11th April 2014
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NPI said:
It's a shame most private schools don't use the same scheme.
ISIS or something like that, same as Ofsted but for Independent Schools.



Fab32

380 posts

132 months

Friday 11th April 2014
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5CylTurbo said:
NPI said:
It's a shame most private schools don't use the same scheme.
ISIS or something like that, same as Ofsted but for Independent Schools.
I love the fact you have been back and edited you original post as you got caught out telling fibs about your daughter getting outstanding in her Ofsted. Genuinely made me chuckle

Any chance of answering my questions?

NPI

1,310 posts

123 months

Friday 11th April 2014
quotequote all
5CylTurbo said:
NPI said:
It's a shame most private schools don't use the same scheme.
ISIS or something like that, same as Ofsted but for Independent Schools.
Brilliant. rofl

5CylTurbo

318 posts

125 months

Friday 11th April 2014
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Fab32 said:
I love the fact you have been back and edited you original post as you got caught out telling fibs about your daughter getting outstanding in her Ofsted. Genuinely made me chuckle

Any chance of answering my questions?
No editing needed to original text, merely adding

Not my daughter she is 8, but still would probably do a better job at teaching than some State school teachers. Wor lass is my wife, teacher in one of the country's best Primary Schools (but that must be because she's dead crap at her job and just wanted an easy time as said by someone who clearly hasn't the first clue what they are on about).

Not really because they were irrelevant to what was being discussed.

Majority of social workers are utter crap. FACT


NPI said:
5CylTurbo said:
NPI said:
It's a shame most private schools don't use the same scheme.
ISIS or something like that, same as Ofsted but for Independent Schools.
Brilliant. rofl
Yes most private schools are, esp when compared with crappy State ones.

http://www.isi.net/home/


Fab32

380 posts

132 months

Friday 11th April 2014
quotequote all
5CylTurbo said:
Fab32 said:
I love the fact you have been back and edited you original post as you got caught out telling fibs about your daughter getting outstanding in her Ofsted. Genuinely made me chuckle

Any chance of answering my questions?
No editing needed to original text, merely adding

Not my daughter she is 8, but still would probably do a better job at teaching than some State school teachers. Wor lass is my wife, teacher in one of the country's best Primary Schools (but that must be because she's dead crap at her job and just wanted an easy time as said by someone who clearly hasn't the first clue what they are on about).

Not really because they were irrelevant to what was being discussed.

Majority of social workers are utter crap. FACT


NPI said:
5CylTurbo said:
NPI said:
It's a shame most private schools don't use the same scheme.
ISIS or something like that, same as Ofsted but for Independent Schools.
Brilliant. rofl
Yes most private schools are, esp when compared with crappy State ones.

http://www.isi.net/home/
So just to recap most social workers are crap because;

Because you wrote fact in capital letters
Because your step sister was one
Because you have read about child deaths where there were social work failings and some where social workers were overzealous (in your opinion)


You my friend are a class a, fully paid up member of the bellend brigade and I would go as far as to say you have missed your calling in life. You need to retrain as you would fit perfectly into a middle management position in Local Authority.

FiF

43,960 posts

250 months

Friday 18th April 2014
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/nhs/10774088/NHS...


I hope the people who spent an estimated 6 million hounding this heart surgeon and making over 100 unfounded complaints to the General Medical Council to discredit him, all disproven by the way, can sleep at night.

Clearly they should be dismissed and stripped of their pensions.

What will actually happen is they will probably be quietly shifted. Or maybe even a juicy redundancy and taken on elsewhere.

Waits for usual NHS apologists to come in with lots of oh so useful jargon and acronyms to make it appear as if they are so knowledgeable and authoritative.

To coin a phrase, one could call them all a set of c**ts but they have neither the depth nor the warmth.

V8 Fettler

7,019 posts

131 months

Friday 18th April 2014
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Any reasonable person would realise that after - say - 20 unfounded complaints that there was a not very hidden agenda. How did it ever reach 100 - 0?

FiF

43,960 posts

250 months

Friday 18th April 2014
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If one reads the Mail the number of complaints they raised was over 200. No link as I don't wish to impose greater burdens on the health service due to PH blood pressure effects.

FiF

43,960 posts

250 months

Friday 18th April 2014
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Just to add the idiots are considering making an appeal. More money down the bedpan sluice.

richie99

1,116 posts

185 months

Friday 18th April 2014
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SpeedMattersNot said:
League tables are a separate issue. A private school with cherry picked students from affluent families will (and should) perform better than a state school in a decaying council estate on all aspects; attendance, facilities and of course results. The problem is, that isn't anything to do with the teachers. You could place the best teachers in the country at the worst school and the worst teachers at the best performing school and the results would only marginally be affected.
).
Why is this? Are pupils in those areas just genetically inferior? Why does that make them less likely to just turn up? Perhaps is it just you need more money to educate the poor - on no, the Government already fixed that with their 'pupil premiun' - stealing money from better performing pupils to try to reduce them to the same level.

So many questions to try to uncover the truth behind these excuses for lazy fecklessness.

5CylTurbo

318 posts

125 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
FiF said:
Waits for usual NHS apologists to come in with lots of oh so useful jargon and acronyms to make it appear as if they are so knowledgeable and authoritative.

To coin a phrase, one could call them all a set of c**ts but they have neither the depth nor the warmth.
And a c**t is useful these public sector supporters aren't on any level. Just got their snouts well and truly in the 'free money' troughs.




5CylTurbo

318 posts

125 months

Friday 18th April 2014
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richie99 said:
SpeedMattersNot said:
League tables are a separate issue. A private school with cherry picked students from affluent families will (and should) perform better than a state school in a decaying council estate on all aspects; attendance, facilities and of course results. The problem is, that isn't anything to do with the teachers. You could place the best teachers in the country at the worst school and the worst teachers at the best performing school and the results would only marginally be affected.
).
Why is this? Are pupils in those areas just genetically inferior? Why does that make them less likely to just turn up? Perhaps is it just you need more money to educate the poor - on no, the Government already fixed that with their 'pupil premiun' - stealing money from better performing pupils to try to reduce them to the same level.

So many questions to try to uncover the truth behind these excuses for lazy fecklessness.
Incredible level of stupidity to suggest that good teachers don't make much difference.

Top schools get top teachers, crap schools get crap teachers - self perpetuating cycle.

My missus is a teacher and has plenty of friends who are also teachers and the difference between state and private is night and day.



SpeedMattersNot

4,506 posts

195 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
richie99 said:
SpeedMattersNot said:
League tables are a separate issue. A private school with cherry picked students from affluent families will (and should) perform better than a state school in a decaying council estate on all aspects; attendance, facilities and of course results. The problem is, that isn't anything to do with the teachers. You could place the best teachers in the country at the worst school and the worst teachers at the best performing school and the results would only marginally be affected.
).
Why is this? Are pupils in those areas just genetically inferior? Why does that make them less likely to just turn up? Perhaps is it just you need more money to educate the poor - on no, the Government already fixed that with their 'pupil premiun' - stealing money from better performing pupils to try to reduce them to the same level.

So many questions to try to uncover the truth behind these excuses for lazy fecklessness.
Why is this? The same reasons these schools are in the decaying council estate up and down the country, that truancy, drug abuse, teenage pregnancy and criminal activity are highest. Like I said, you could put the best teachers in the worst school (yes, even 5cylturbo's wife, who is obviously the best teacher in the world) and for starters - the kids who truant still won't turn up to school and their parents still won't give a toss. The question is, why are there decaying council estates.

5CylTurbo said:
Incredible level of stupidity to suggest that good teachers don't make much difference.

Top schools get top teachers, crap schools get crap teachers - self perpetuating cycle.

My missus is a teacher and has plenty of friends who are also teachers and the difference between state and private is night and day.

It's not stupidity, it's basic levels of understanding of the education system and society as a whole. The school me wife teaches at, I would consider just above average for a state school. There are still some very gifted children, 2 who I regularly see at church who attained 4 A*'s at A-Level and went to Oxbridge. They couldn't have physically done any better.

And again, it's not entirely true that top teachers always flock to top schools and poor teachers swarm towards the bad ones. As already mentioned, the largest variable is the student and in many cases, the best or the worst teachers can't help them. It's a far bigger problem than whether or not the teachers are any good - it's a massive problem with several areas of the country in all aspects of life, not just education.

Your last statement is entirely pointless (much like my efforts in replying, or indeed even reading this thread).

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
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SpeedMattersNot said:
There are still some very gifted children, 2 who I regularly see at church who attained 4 A*'s at A-Level and went to Oxbridge. They couldn't have physically done any better.
Fair enough and well done to those two, but what you cannot see are those who could have got A*s and an Oxbridge place but didn't. Why only two? Others could well have physically done much better.

SpeedMattersNot said:
And again, it's not entirely true that top teachers always flock to top schools and poor teachers swarm towards the bad ones.
Not always, but usually. Ask a teacher in a school struggling to get out of Special Measures how easy it will be to get a promoted job until things improve. When applying for jobs, the only people who may well end up in sink schools out of choice are those who volunteer to be put there from programmes such as Future Leaders. At the NQT level a Good or Outstanding school will be very attractive to a good and ambitious teacher.

NPI

1,310 posts

123 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
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turbobloke said:
Not always, but usually. Ask a teacher in a school struggling to get out of Special Measures how easy it will be to get a promoted job until things improve. When applying for jobs, the only people who may well end up in sink schools out of choice are those who volunteer to be put there from programmes such as Future Leaders. At the NQT level a Good or Outstanding school will be very attractive to a good and ambitious teacher.
I don't think that's correct. For an "ordinary" teacher, experience in a bad school is very useful for future jobs - they're not considered responsible on an individual level for the school being crap.

For someone on the Leadership scale, the opposite is true - it is their fault.

Schools' success is massively down to the kids it pulls in - a local school to us got an overall Good Ofsted rating, and Ofsted said that was despite the teaching.