Public sector watch

[nikaiyo2]

Great example of Public Sector cost management.

Local fire station, I can see from my office 6 or 7 fire fighters sat outside, have been for the last 40 minutes or so. Contractor is mowing the grass out the front...

[Sheepshanks]

nikaiyo2 said:

Local fire station, I can see from my office 6 or 7 fire fighters sat outside, have been for the last 40 minutes or so. Contractor is mowing the grass out the front...

Seriously? Imagine how much the training would cost to get the fire fighters to the required standard in grass cutting to enable them to gain the relevant qualifications and safety certificates.

[FiF]

Speaking of the Mail (must we) they have a bit of a poke at councils who on the one hand cut costs but closing libraries and public lavatories but on the other hand continue the pay 'excesses' for executives.

In the interest of balance one should post in the private sector thread about companies who pay high executive wages and treat their staff and customers apallingly. Though at least one has a choice to patronise a competitor whereas don't patronise the council and you go to jail.

[mph1977]

Sheepshanks said:

nikaiyo2 said:

Local fire station, I can see from my office 6 or 7 fire fighters sat outside, have been for the last 40 minutes or so. Contractor is mowing the grass out the front...

Seriously? Imagine how much the training would cost to get the fire fighters to the required standard in grass cutting to enable them to gain the relevant qualifications and safety certificates.

let;s give each premises it;s own mower and then fuel /service them vs a man in a van with choice of mowers and tools - which is actually more cost effective?

[arp1]

mph1977 said:

Sheepshanks said:

nikaiyo2 said:

Local fire station, I can see from my office 6 or 7 fire fighters sat outside, have been for the last 40 minutes or so. Contractor is mowing the grass out the front...

Seriously? Imagine how much the training would cost to get the fire fighters to the required standard in grass cutting to enable them to gain the relevant qualifications and safety certificates.

let;s give each premises it;s own mower and then fuel /service them vs a man in a van with choice of mowers and tools - which is actually more cost effective?

If you didn't know already, firefighters have been staging short strikes over the past 8 days, so this is perhaps what you were seeing, ffs on strike... Or, alternatively, crazily, they may have been on their break? You do get breaks and rest periods in the public sector you know

[arp1]

mph1977 said:

Sheepshanks said:

nikaiyo2 said:

Local fire station, I can see from my office 6 or 7 fire fighters sat outside, have been for the last 40 minutes or so. Contractor is mowing the grass out the front...

Seriously? Imagine how much the training would cost to get the fire fighters to the required standard in grass cutting to enable them to gain the relevant qualifications and safety certificates.

let;s give each premises it;s own mower and then fuel /service them vs a man in a van with choice of mowers and tools - which is actually more cost effective?

If you didn't know already, firefighters have been staging short strikes over the past 8 days, so this is perhaps what you were seeing, ffs on strike... Or, alternatively, crazily, they may have been on their break? You do get breaks and rest periods in the public sector you know

[anonymous-user]

arp1 said:

mph1977 said:

Sheepshanks said:

nikaiyo2 said:

Local fire station, I can see from my office 6 or 7 fire fighters sat outside, have been for the last 40 minutes or so. Contractor is mowing the grass out the front...

Seriously? Imagine how much the training would cost to get the fire fighters to the required standard in grass cutting to enable them to gain the relevant qualifications and safety certificates.

let;s give each premises it;s own mower and then fuel /service them vs a man in a van with choice of mowers and tools - which is actually more cost effective?

If you didn't know already, firefighters have been staging short strikes over the past 8 days, so this is perhaps what you were seeing, ffs on strike... Or, alternatively, crazily, they may have been on their break? You do get breaks and rest periods in the public sector you know

They certainly do get breaks, quite long ones........

[turbobloke]

REALIST123 said:

arp1 said:

mph1977 said:

Sheepshanks said:

nikaiyo2 said:

Local fire station, I can see from my office 6 or 7 fire fighters sat outside, have been for the last 40 minutes or so. Contractor is mowing the grass out the front...

Seriously? Imagine how much the training would cost to get the fire fighters to the required standard in grass cutting to enable them to gain the relevant qualifications and safety certificates.

let;s give each premises it;s own mower and then fuel /service them vs a man in a van with choice of mowers and tools - which is actually more cost effective?

If you didn't know already, firefighters have been staging short strikes over the past 8 days, so this is perhaps what you were seeing, ffs on strike... Or, alternatively, crazily, they may have been on their break? You do get breaks and rest periods in the public sector you know

They certainly do get breaks, quite long ones........

They certainly do.

Public Sector Overall Sickie Rate: 2.6%
Private Sector Overall Sickie Rate: 1.6%
(Source ONS)

[SpeedMattersNot]

Do those figures tell the full story?

In the private sector, if I was unable to work due to illness, I could take the first 3 days as holiday pay (everyone I ever worked with would also do the same). So I would imagine this doesn't go down as a 'sick day'.

If my wife is off work in term time however, she doesn't have holiday days to consume in such a way.

[turbobloke]

SpeedMattersNot said:

Do those figures tell the full story?

In the private sector, if I was unable to work due to illness, I could take the first 3 days as holiday pay (everyone I ever worked with would also do the same). So I would imagine this doesn't go down as a 'sick day'.

If my wife is off work in term time however, she doesn't have holiday days to consume in such a way.

Those figures tell the story of relative absence rates very clearly.

As to 'the full story' that could be interpreted as looking for excuses but I doubt you intended it to look that way

Various reasons have been put forward, including the generally more generous sick pay arrangements in the public sector, but that hardly helps to paint a better picture and none of the excuses help much. Even so if people want to view the situation through rose tinted specs there are ways of doing so. The numbers remain the same.

[mph1977]

SpeedMattersNot said:

Do those figures tell the full story?

In the private sector, if I was unable to work due to illness, I could take the first 3 days as holiday pay (everyone I ever worked with would also do the same). So I would imagine this doesn't go down as a 'sick day'.

If my wife is off work in term time however, she doesn't have holiday days to consume in such a way.

i've also seen TOIL used to cover sickness in the private sector - which it generally isn;t in the Public sector

there is also the issues of the nature of work in public sector where there are strict requirements

how many private secotr jobs outside of healthcare ( where the private sector is far far smaller) and food handling mandate you take 2 days off *AFTER* the D+V stops if you manage to food poison yourself /pick up norovirus ? yet anyone who works in a clinical role or in a clinical building ( so including receptionists, cleaners, estates staff ... ) has to do this

howe amny private secotr jobs have the levels of assaultson staff that sworn and unsworn police staff or NHs staff ?

never mind other jobs where you can;t got and hide in a corner and catch up on your expenses / do random paperwork if you feel a bit under the weather ...

[nikaiyo2]

arp1 said:

If you didn't know already, firefighters have been staging short strikes over the past 8 days, so this is perhaps what you were seeing, ffs on strike... Or, alternatively, crazily, they may have been on their break? You do get breaks and rest periods in the public sector you know

No we can see the station from our office, so when the sun is out they seem to be on 8 hour tea breaks! Exaggerating but not far off :P
Thats not the point, it takes about 30 minutes to cut the grass, it is not critical, it can be done as and when someone has a half hour spare.

Oddly enough I know approx what they pay for the "grounds maintenance" as I got the guy to give me a price to do ours... £75+VAT per visit to mow and weed, "as he is already coming up here."
Or use a lawn mower that cost £150 about 5 years ago and pay someone when they have a bit of spare time, so to me it costs us about £22.08 for a full hour including the cost of the mower and £17 per hour labour cost.

That is the difference between public and private sector cost cutting, during the recession we took every ounce of fat out the business, £50 is not a lot but that is £50 per month, or £600 per year, it soon adds up, if they are wasting money on this you can bet they are elsewhere.

[arp1]

nikaiyo2 said:

arp1 said:

If you didn't know already, firefighters have been staging short strikes over the past 8 days, so this is perhaps what you were seeing, ffs on strike... Or, alternatively, crazily, they may have been on their break? You do get breaks and rest periods in the public sector you know

No we can see the station from our office, so when the sun is out they seem to be on 8 hour tea breaks! Exaggerating but not far off :P
Thats not the point, it takes about 30 minutes to cut the grass, it is not critical, it can be done as and when someone has a half hour spare.

Oddly enough I know approx what they pay for the "grounds maintenance" as I got the guy to give me a price to do ours... £75+VAT per visit to mow and weed, "as he is already coming up here."
Or use a lawn mower that cost £150 about 5 years ago and pay someone when they have a bit of spare time, so to me it costs us about £22.08 for a full hour including the cost of the mower and £17 per hour labour cost.

That is the difference between public and private sector cost cutting, during the recession we took every ounce of fat out the business, £50 is not a lot but that is £50 per month, or £600 per year, it soon adds up, if they are wasting money on this you can bet they are elsewhere.

Is it the station garden or council ground? Is there a garden fund set up to supply the station with the necessary equipment to maintain it if it is station garden? Or has the council or whoever always maintained it? Hardly the troops fault. And if it is sunny and if on their breaks, why not sit in the sun, if you had the facilities to sit in the sun on your break, would you? I iow I would! What about all the breaks smokers get? That's hardly a public sector blight! It's everywhere!

[Sheepshanks]

nikaiyo2 said:

Or use a lawn mower that cost £150 about 5 years ago and pay someone when they have a bit of spare time, so to me it costs us about £22.08 for a full hour including the cost of the mower and £17 per hour labour cost.

That's great, but I think it's just unrealistic to expect that kind of "nimbleness" in a public sector organisation.

I was only half joking about certificates and qualifications earlier - public bodies can't avoid the responsibilities that private companies skate around. Choosing the lawn mower would need a committee, tender process etc.

[arp1]

Just remember though that you cannot and should not tar all public service bodies with the same brush, much like you cannot say all private sector bodies are saints and they work till thy die and they are not workshy...

[oyster]

Sheepshanks said:

nikaiyo2 said:

Or use a lawn mower that cost £150 about 5 years ago and pay someone when they have a bit of spare time, so to me it costs us about £22.08 for a full hour including the cost of the mower and £17 per hour labour cost.

That's great, but I think it's just unrealistic to expect that kind of "nimbleness" in a public sector organisation.

I was only half joking about certificates and qualifications earlier - public bodies can't avoid the responsibilities that private companies skate around. Choosing the lawn mower would need a committee, tender process etc.

What nikaiyo2 forgets is that 99% of the private sector also pays a contractor to mow the company grass.
The other 1% obviously don't have enough real work to be getting on with if they have time to cut the grass.

[turbobloke]

arp1 said:

Just remember though that you cannot and should not tar all public service bodies with the same brush, much like you cannot say all private sector bodies are saints and they work till thy die and they are not workshy...

Indeed.

The differences that remain are that public sector services tend to involve no choice as they have a captive audience, and are fed by a steady flow of money from compulsory taxes rather than income achieved by competing for customers.

[98elise]

SpeedMattersNot said:

Do those figures tell the full story?

In the private sector, if I was unable to work due to illness, I could take the first 3 days as holiday pay (everyone I ever worked with would also do the same). So I would imagine this doesn't go down as a 'sick day'.

If my wife is off work in term time however, she doesn't have holiday days to consume in such a way.

I've never known anyone in the private sector to take holidays when sick. In fact at one place I was told I could claim back days if I fell ill during a holiday.

Try being self employed, you suddenly become much healthier. I've not had a sick day since starting on my own

[arp1]

And for those public service bodies that do not generate an income (as such)... (I.e. Emergency services)?

Hence the term 'public service', services for the public paid for by the public... And should be supported by the public!

[turbobloke]

arp1 said:

And for those public service bodies that do not generate an income (as such)... (I.e. Emergency services)?

Hence the term 'public service', services for the public paid for by the public... And should be supported by the public!

The point remains that with a lack of competition there can be a corresponding lack of desire to please the customer as opposed to watching the pension pot build from a position around the drinks machine with reduced likelihood of being sacked...as opposed to retrained and promoted. The 'should be supported' is unintentionally ironic, ISWYM but the reality is that everyone has little choice but to pay taxes and support the public sector. Overall the quality of service received isn't commensurate with the amount of tax some people are paying, and these tend to be the people making least use of public services. There are people with experience of excellent service from public sector bodies, for my part and to take just two examples, the NHS was OK but no better in terms of my parents and children (when they were young), whereas I've seen excellence at first hand in the armed services - and there are certainly pockets of top dollar performance elsewhere but the generality remains mediocre on the back of shedloads of tax being pumped in.