Public sector watch
Discussion
turbobloke said:
mph1977 said:
Camoradi said:
On the question of public sector sickness rates, there are areas of the public sector (civil service) where they get up to 12 days per annum of paid sick pay, after which their holiday entitlement is reduced for each day.
I have friends in this area of work who routinely take days off sick in November and December each year because they "have some sick days left" ie they haven't taken their full 12 days off sick that year. In some cases they take them by arrangement with line managers.
As opposed to most of the public sector, where legal requirements ref: certification are followed and onerous attendance management policies are put in place which often ignore the requirements of the equality act ... I have friends in this area of work who routinely take days off sick in November and December each year because they "have some sick days left" ie they haven't taken their full 12 days off sick that year. In some cases they take them by arrangement with line managers.
ONS ‘Sickness absence in the Labour market – 2012' found a public sector sickie rate of 2.6% compared to the private sector 1.6% which is a lot of millions of days difference hiding behind small percentages.
The self-employed sickie rate at 1.2% is where both should be.
Sheepshanks said:
turbobloke said:
The self-employed sickie rate at 1.2% is where both should be.
Yes - we really want sick people coming in and wiping out the whole office. What we're talking about is the tendency of people, particularly in the public sector but to a degree with private sector employees, to regard an element of sickness absence as an entitlement.
An absence rate of 1.2% is quite capable of keeping bugs at home. The figure for self-employed individuals can be taken to indicate sickness rather than can'tbearsedtogotowork syndrome, which afflicts healthy people who take advantage of procedures at no immediate loss to their selfish arse.
In the public sector, we all fork out for these lazy people to get paid for doing nothing. At least in the private sector it's private money.
mph1977 said:
and ignores the differences in roles between the public sector and the private sector ... how many private sector roles face the levle of violence or have the infection control requirements or public sector roles ...
bases on exactly what?Just what % of public sector jobs are public facing? (answer, much less than you clearly think!)
the majority of staff in the NHS never come into (physical) contact with patients, yes, really....
turbobloke said:
Sheepshanks said:
turbobloke said:
The self-employed sickie rate at 1.2% is where both should be.
Yes - we really want sick people coming in and wiping out the whole office. What we're talking about is the tendency of people, particularly in the public sector but to a degree with private sector employees, to regard an element of sickness absence as an entitlement.
An absence rate of 1.2% is quite capable of keeping bugs at home. The figure for self-employed individuals can be taken to indicate sickness rather than can'tbearsedtogotowork syndrome, which afflicts healthy people who take advantage of procedures at no immediate loss to their selfish arse.
In the public sector, we all fork out for these lazy people to get paid for doing nothing. At least in the private sector it's private money.
I have had 5 days off sick in the past 15 years.
mph1977 said:
turbobloke said:
mph1977 said:
Camoradi said:
On the question of public sector sickness rates, there are areas of the public sector (civil service) where they get up to 12 days per annum of paid sick pay, after which their holiday entitlement is reduced for each day.
I have friends in this area of work who routinely take days off sick in November and December each year because they "have some sick days left" ie they haven't taken their full 12 days off sick that year. In some cases they take them by arrangement with line managers.
As opposed to most of the public sector, where legal requirements ref: certification are followed and onerous attendance management policies are put in place which often ignore the requirements of the equality act ... I have friends in this area of work who routinely take days off sick in November and December each year because they "have some sick days left" ie they haven't taken their full 12 days off sick that year. In some cases they take them by arrangement with line managers.
ONS ‘Sickness absence in the Labour market – 2012' found a public sector sickie rate of 2.6% compared to the private sector 1.6% which is a lot of millions of days difference hiding behind small percentages.
The self-employed sickie rate at 1.2% is where both should be.
Shopkeepers
Builders
Farmers
Power workers
Refuse collectors
Mechanics
Trawlermen
Roofers
Miners
Teachers and health workers appear down the lists published in the last few years.
Armed services may well be seen as an exception, from personal experience it certainly felt dangerous at times from IOT onwards.
turbobloke said:
The figure for self-employed individuals can be taken to indicate sickness rather than can'tbearsedtogotowork syndrome, which afflicts healthy people who take advantage of procedures at no immediate loss to their selfish arse.
How would anybody even know the figure for self-employed people?If it's done by survey, how would the answer be verified? I haven't had a day off sick for many years (touch wood) but if I don't feel like working, then I don't.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Sunday 19th April 13:34
turbobloke said:
mph1977 said:
turbobloke said:
mph1977 said:
Camoradi said:
On the question of public sector sickness rates, there are areas of the public sector (civil service) where they get up to 12 days per annum of paid sick pay, after which their holiday entitlement is reduced for each day.
I have friends in this area of work who routinely take days off sick in November and December each year because they "have some sick days left" ie they haven't taken their full 12 days off sick that year. In some cases they take them by arrangement with line managers.
As opposed to most of the public sector, where legal requirements ref: certification are followed and onerous attendance management policies are put in place which often ignore the requirements of the equality act ... I have friends in this area of work who routinely take days off sick in November and December each year because they "have some sick days left" ie they haven't taken their full 12 days off sick that year. In some cases they take them by arrangement with line managers.
ONS ‘Sickness absence in the Labour market – 2012' found a public sector sickie rate of 2.6% compared to the private sector 1.6% which is a lot of millions of days difference hiding behind small percentages.
The self-employed sickie rate at 1.2% is where both should be.
Shopkeepers
Builders
Farmers
Power workers
Refuse collectors
Mechanics
Trawlermen
Roofers
Miners
Teachers and health workers appear down the lists published in the last few years.
Armed services may well be seen as an exception, from personal experience it certainly felt dangerous at times from IOT onwards.
Sheepshanks said:
turbobloke said:
The figure for self-employed individuals can be taken to indicate sickness rather than can'tbearsedtogotowork syndrome, which afflicts healthy people who take advantage of procedures at no immediate loss to their selfish arse.
How would anybody even know the figure for self-employed people?If it's done by survey, how would the answer be verifies? I haven't had a day off-sick for many years (touch wood) but if I don't feel like working, then I don't.
ONS said:
These National Statistics are produced to high professional standards and released according to the arrangements approved by the UK Statistics Authority.
You can always take it up with ONS.Where self-employed people choose not to work including due to no requirement to work, that's not a sickie. They're not sick, and not pretending to be.
Sheepshanks said:
turbobloke said:
The self-employed sickie rate at 1.2% is where both should be.
Yes - we really want sick people coming in and wiping out the whole office. 
If they are following the public sector model 26 people will be off, 14 of which are capable of working.
voyds9 said:
So in a factory of 1000 workers, if they follow the self employed model and everyone gets sick there will be 12 people off.
If they are following the public sector model 26 people will be off, 14 of which are capable of working.
Who's to say the 12 weren't capable of working too?If they are following the public sector model 26 people will be off, 14 of which are capable of working.
Of course it's largely psychological - the bigger the safety net you have the more likely your are to err on the side of not going in. Who decides though?
Sheepshanks said:
turbobloke said:
You can always take it up with ONS.
I've done ONS surveys - even by face-to-face interview I just gave the first answers that came into my head so they'd go away.Not that these sickie rate numbers necessarily arise from asking people, as per earlier replies there are people in HR departments who keep a tally.
Sheepshanks said:
Who decides though?
Not sure what you mean. To take one example...HR in the public sector will, according to the rigorous procedures mentioned by mph1977, keep meticulous records. These will be accessible to ONS.
It's not a question of deciding whether the sickies were for sickness, the numbers are actual sickies thrown by actual people in actual jobs. The significant increase in millions of days of sickness (as a %) from self-employed to private sector to public sector reveals more "sickness" in the public sector, which is a miracle.
The difference in the % numbers with such large samples, and from experience, and applying common sense, but almost wholly from the numbers, reveal that the public sector sickies are far greater in number because more often than in other sectors it's not sickness.
98elise said:
Armed service sickness will be very low. Young reasonably fit workforce with little scope to throw a sicky. In my 8 years service I can't remember anyone having time off for colds etc. even if you were injured you were just put on light duties.
I don't know where or when you did your time, but things are quite different these days. I work on an army base and you wouldn't believe the number of people who are not fully fit and not doing their primary job. Yes they are in work, but they are not fit enough to deploy, so end up doing some crappy job. Some of the excuses remind you of a fifties film about national service!turbobloke said:
more "sickness" in the public sector, which is a miracle.
No, it's an obvious sign that they work so very much harder, under more stressful circumstances & are so much more dedicated and............. or something like that, anyway. (I presume Thatcher is to blame somewhere, too, but nobody's mentioned that yet)Rovinghawk said:
turbobloke said:
more "sickness" in the public sector, which is a miracle.
No, it's an obvious sign that they work so very much harder, under more stressful circumstances & are so much more dedicated and............. or something like that, anyway. (I presume Thatcher is to blame somewhere, too, but nobody's mentioned that yet)have you ever actually worked in a frontline Health or Emergency Services role ?
what aobut education or Child Protection ?
If it's any help, I've done almost 19 years in the cops and I've never had a day off sick. Not one. I was on restricted duties for about 10 months after a diagnosis of (and treatment for) work related PTSD and stress/depression. I have had treatment during "work" time, but generally tried to arrange appointments for my rest days where possible.
MPH1977 said:
Rovinghawk
have you ever actually worked in a frontline Health or Emergency Services role ?
what aobut education or Child Protection ?
No, I've always had a "don't work, don't earn" type of job.have you ever actually worked in a frontline Health or Emergency Services role ?
what aobut education or Child Protection ?
3 days off sick in the last 25 years.
Edited by Rovinghawk on Sunday 19th April 20:44
Rovinghawk said:
MPH1977 said:
Rovinghawk
have you ever actually worked in a frontline Health or Emergency Services role ?
what aobut education or Child Protection ?
No, I've always had a "don't work, don't earn" type of job.have you ever actually worked in a frontline Health or Emergency Services role ?
what aobut education or Child Protection ?
3 days off sick in the last 25 years.
Edited by Rovinghawk on Sunday 19th April 20:44
i see that people have also conflated 'most dangerous' jobs with jobs most likely to be facing violence from their 'customers'
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