Public sector watch

[mph1977]

Russ T Bolt said:

FiF said:

Hasn't there been repeated assertion on this thread that public sector pensions, despite claims to the contrary, aren't all that special, except for special sectors in civil service, Whitehall etc.

Just been looking at the scheme rules for someone, recent graduate, just starting out. Job quite normal administration type.

Defined Benefit. 5% employee contributions. All index linked. Accrual at 49ths.

Would have loved to have that.

So are you able to share where this is, or is it a fictitious job ?

seems a bit of a mystery ... unless of course it's actually the MPs or the manadrin schemes for the London based senior snivel serpents

[V8 Fettler]

The biggest issues with the public sector arise from the lack of accountability and the lack of transparency, leading to insular, self-serving empires that fail to adequately serve the people who pay for them. This can only change when individuals who fail to perform are subject to financial penalties and/or sackings and/or criminal proceedings.

[FiF]

Why should I share where it is? It is not a fictitious job. You Russ Bolt have made at least one incorrect assumption already which has misled your thinking. Have very good reasons why not going to share.

[Russ T Bolt]

FiF said:

Why should I share where it is? It is not a fictitious job. You Russ Bolt have made at least one incorrect assumption already which has misled your thinking. Have very good reasons why not going to share.

Really, what incorrect assumption is that, other than believing the detail you posted.

[mph1977]

V8 Fettler said:

The biggest issues with the public sector arise from the lack of accountability and the lack of transparency, leading to insular, self-serving empires that fail to adequately serve the people who pay for them. This can only change when individuals who fail to perform are subject to financial penalties and/or sackings and/or criminal proceedings.

thanks to the way in which Blair et al encouraged the prliferation of Lay management and tractor production commissars ...

to suggest that NHS clinical staff, teachers , social workers etc are not accountable shows a remarkable level of ignorance or malice ...

[Russ T Bolt]

mph1977 said:

Russ T Bolt said:

FiF said:

Hasn't there been repeated assertion on this thread that public sector pensions, despite claims to the contrary, aren't all that special, except for special sectors in civil service, Whitehall etc.

Just been looking at the scheme rules for someone, recent graduate, just starting out. Job quite normal administration type.

Defined Benefit. 5% employee contributions. All index linked. Accrual at 49ths.

Would have loved to have that.

So are you able to share where this is, or is it a fictitious job ?

seems a bit of a mystery ... unless of course it's actually the MPs or the manadrin schemes for the London based senior snivel serpents

It's a recent graduate, so won't be SCS, but from memory they are 60th's. Think all of the final salary schemes are closed now for Civil Servants.

[Countdown]

mph1977 said:

to suggest that NHS clinical staff, teachers , social workers etc are not accountable shows a remarkable level of ignorance or malice ...

...but much the norm for NP&E.

[FiF]

Russ T Bolt said:

FiF said:

Why should I share where it is? It is not a fictitious job. You Russ Bolt have made at least one incorrect assumption already which has misled your thinking. Have very good reasons why not going to share.

Really, what incorrect assumption is that, other than believing the detail you posted.

You have assumed that defined benefit = final salary in the traditional way final salary has been used.

As posted before a final salary scheme in the old sense allows someone who has had a massive pay rise or promotion a year before retirement to use that as a pensionable income for the purposes of calculation of the pension payable. This scheme does not work in that way, not at all, but is still a fully index linked defined benefit scheme, and thus virtually all risk falls on the employer. The way the index linking works makes it quite expensive imo.

[Sheepshanks]

Russ T Bolt said:

mph1977 said:

Russ T Bolt said:

FiF said:

Hasn't there been repeated assertion on this thread that public sector pensions, despite claims to the contrary, aren't all that special, except for special sectors in civil service, Whitehall etc.

Just been looking at the scheme rules for someone, recent graduate, just starting out. Job quite normal administration type.

Defined Benefit. 5% employee contributions. All index linked. Accrual at 49ths.

Would have loved to have that.

So are you able to share where this is, or is it a fictitious job ?

seems a bit of a mystery ... unless of course it's actually the MPs or the manadrin schemes for the London based senior snivel serpents

It's a recent graduate, so won't be SCS, but from memory they are 60th's. Think all of the final salary schemes are closed now for Civil Servants.

Yes, and the contribution taken from most public servants is now far higher than almost anybody in the private sector is putting into their pension.

[V8 Fettler]

mph1977 said:

V8 Fettler said:

The biggest issues with the public sector arise from the lack of accountability and the lack of transparency, leading to insular, self-serving empires that fail to adequately serve the people who pay for them. This can only change when individuals who fail to perform are subject to financial penalties and/or sackings and/or criminal proceedings.

thanks to the way in which Blair et al encouraged the prliferation of Lay management and tractor production commissars ...

to suggest that NHS clinical staff, teachers , social workers etc are not accountable shows a remarkable level of ignorance or malice ...

Simple statement of fact, see Mid-Staffs, Rotherham and Hillsborough for examples.

[V8 Fettler]

Sheepshanks said:

Russ T Bolt said:

mph1977 said:

Russ T Bolt said:

FiF said:

Hasn't there been repeated assertion on this thread that public sector pensions, despite claims to the contrary, aren't all that special, except for special sectors in civil service, Whitehall etc.

Just been looking at the scheme rules for someone, recent graduate, just starting out. Job quite normal administration type.

Defined Benefit. 5% employee contributions. All index linked. Accrual at 49ths.

Would have loved to have that.

So are you able to share where this is, or is it a fictitious job ?

seems a bit of a mystery ... unless of course it's actually the MPs or the manadrin schemes for the London based senior snivel serpents

It's a recent graduate, so won't be SCS, but from memory they are 60th's. Think all of the final salary schemes are closed now for Civil Servants.

Yes, and the contribution taken from most public servants is now far higher than almost anybody in the private sector is putting into their pension.

The contributions to my pension are split as follows: me = 100%. How does that compare to public servants?

[mph1977]

V8 Fettler said:

mph1977 said:

V8 Fettler said:

The biggest issues with the public sector arise from the lack of accountability and the lack of transparency, leading to insular, self-serving empires that fail to adequately serve the people who pay for them. This can only change when individuals who fail to perform are subject to financial penalties and/or sackings and/or criminal proceedings.

thanks to the way in which Blair et al encouraged the prliferation of Lay management and tractor production commissars ...

to suggest that NHS clinical staff, teachers , social workers etc are not accountable shows a remarkable level of ignorance or malice ...

Simple statement of fact, see Mid-Staffs, Rotherham and Hillsborough for examples.

Mid staffs - lay Management are the ones laughing all the way to the bank, senior HCPs ( I question calling them clinicans due to the lack of current clinical experience of many NHS none Medical HCPs as Managers ) carry the can for everything they did or didn;t do and for not controlling their lay person bosses

similar scenario with Rotherham , councillors and Lay management

Hillsborough we are talking aobut the police service or 20 -30 years ago - a completely different place culturally

[mph1977]

V8 Fettler said:

Sheepshanks said:

Russ T Bolt said:

mph1977 said:

Russ T Bolt said:

FiF said:

Hasn't there been repeated assertion on this thread that public sector pensions, despite claims to the contrary, aren't all that special, except for special sectors in civil service, Whitehall etc.

Just been looking at the scheme rules for someone, recent graduate, just starting out. Job quite normal administration type.

Defined Benefit. 5% employee contributions. All index linked. Accrual at 49ths.

Would have loved to have that.

So are you able to share where this is, or is it a fictitious job ?

seems a bit of a mystery ... unless of course it's actually the MPs or the manadrin schemes for the London based senior snivel serpents

It's a recent graduate, so won't be SCS, but from memory they are 60th's. Think all of the final salary schemes are closed now for Civil Servants.

Yes, and the contribution taken from most public servants is now far higher than almost anybody in the private sector is putting into their pension.

The contributions to my pension are split as follows: me = 100%. How does that compare to public servants?

presumably you are company director or self employed, unless you are an employee in one ofthe few companies not yet covered by auto enrolment ...

but of course the fact that many private sector employers have deliberately chosen to prioritise basic salary and/or perks ahead of employers contributions is entirely the fault of public sector employees and nothing to do with share holders of companies or Political raids on pension funds motivated by class war and /or need to create money for authoritarain wet dreams ...

[Russ T Bolt]

FiF said:

Russ T Bolt said:

FiF said:

Why should I share where it is? It is not a fictitious job. You Russ Bolt have made at least one incorrect assumption already which has misled your thinking. Have very good reasons why not going to share.

Really, what incorrect assumption is that, other than believing the detail you posted.

You have assumed that defined benefit = final salary in the traditional way final salary has been used.

As posted before a final salary scheme in the old sense allows someone who has had a massive pay rise or promotion a year before retirement to use that as a pensionable income for the purposes of calculation of the pension payable. This scheme does not work in that way, not at all, but is still a fully index linked defined benefit scheme, and thus virtually all risk falls on the employer. The way the index linking works makes it quite expensive imo.

Well you are incorrect, my assumption was purely on the basis of accrual. Educate me on which other DB schemes accrue on 49th's ( your example) other than final salary. Career average certainly doesn't ( I have one of those as well).

[V8 Fettler]

mph1977 said:

V8 Fettler said:

mph1977 said:

V8 Fettler said:

The biggest issues with the public sector arise from the lack of accountability and the lack of transparency, leading to insular, self-serving empires that fail to adequately serve the people who pay for them. This can only change when individuals who fail to perform are subject to financial penalties and/or sackings and/or criminal proceedings.

thanks to the way in which Blair et al encouraged the prliferation of Lay management and tractor production commissars ...

to suggest that NHS clinical staff, teachers , social workers etc are not accountable shows a remarkable level of ignorance or malice ...

Simple statement of fact, see Mid-Staffs, Rotherham and Hillsborough for examples.

Mid staffs - lay Management are the ones laughing all the way to the bank, senior HCPs ( I question calling them clinicans due to the lack of current clinical experience of many NHS none Medical HCPs as Managers ) carry the can for everything they did or didn;t do and for not controlling their lay person bosses

similar scenario with Rotherham , councillors and Lay management

Hillsborough we are talking aobut the police service or 20 -30 years ago - a completely different place culturally

Blame colleagues and protect backsides rather then fix the problems. Why didn't the clinical staff at mid-Staffs raise their concerns meaningfully? Same applies to Rotherham and Hillsborough and is ongoing. Retirement or resignation should not be an escape route.

[V8 Fettler]

mph1977 said:

V8 Fettler said:

Sheepshanks said:

Russ T Bolt said:

mph1977 said:

Russ T Bolt said:

FiF said:

Hasn't there been repeated assertion on this thread that public sector pensions, despite claims to the contrary, aren't all that special, except for special sectors in civil service, Whitehall etc.

Just been looking at the scheme rules for someone, recent graduate, just starting out. Job quite normal administration type.

Defined Benefit. 5% employee contributions. All index linked. Accrual at 49ths.

Would have loved to have that.

So are you able to share where this is, or is it a fictitious job ?

seems a bit of a mystery ... unless of course it's actually the MPs or the manadrin schemes for the London based senior snivel serpents

It's a recent graduate, so won't be SCS, but from memory they are 60th's. Think all of the final salary schemes are closed now for Civil Servants.

Yes, and the contribution taken from most public servants is now far higher than almost anybody in the private sector is putting into their pension.

The contributions to my pension are split as follows: me = 100%. How does that compare to public servants?

presumably you are company director or self employed, unless you are an employee in one ofthe few companies not yet covered by auto enrolment ...

but of course the fact that many private sector employers have deliberately chosen to prioritise basic salary and/or perks ahead of employers contributions is entirely the fault of public sector employees and nothing to do with share holders of companies or Political raids on pension funds motivated by class war and /or need to create money for authoritarain wet dreams ...

You've avoided the question: how does a pension scheme with zero employer contributions compare with employer contributions to a typical public servant's scheme?

[Countdown]

V8 Fettler said:

You've avoided the question: how does a pension scheme with zero employer contributions compare with employer contributions to a typical public servant's scheme?

Depends also on how the salaries and other benefits compare?

It's a bit like saying Policemen are allowed to drive really really fast. As a non-Policeman Im not allowed to drive really really fast. It's sooo unfair.

[V8 Fettler]

Countdown said:

V8 Fettler said:

You've avoided the question: how does a pension scheme with zero employer contributions compare with employer contributions to a typical public servant's scheme?

Depends also on how the salaries and other benefits compare?

It's a bit like saying Policemen are allowed to drive really really fast. As a non-Policeman Im not allowed to drive really really fast. It's sooo unfair.

A bizarre and feeble analogy.

Are there many public sector pension schemes where the employer contribution is zero?

[Countdown]

V8 Fettler said:

A bizarre and feeble analogy.

Are there many public sector pension schemes where the employer contribution is zero?

No (AFAIK)

Are there many private sector pension schemes where the employer contribution
is zero?

[V8 Fettler]

Countdown said:

V8 Fettler said:

A bizarre and feeble analogy.

Are there many public sector pension schemes where the employer contribution is zero?

No (AFAIK)

Are there many private sector pension schemes where the employer contribution
is zero?

The schemes I contribute to have no employer contributions.