Public sector watch

[Countdown]

V8 Fettler said:

The schemes I contribute to have no employer contributions.

Do you have an employer? Or is it just a personal pension?

[V8 Fettler]

Countdown said:

V8 Fettler said:

The schemes I contribute to have no employer contributions.

Do you have an employer? Or is it just a personal pension?

I have several employers, although probably not as you would define. "Just a personal pension" ... "Just"

[Sticks.]

V8 Fettler said:

The biggest issues with the financial sector arise from the lack of accountability and the lack of transparency, leading to insular, self-serving empires that fail to adequately serve the people who pay for them. This can only change when individuals who fail to perform are subject to financial penalties and/or sackings and/or criminal proceedings.

Couldn't resist I'm afraid.

FWIW there is no one 'public sector pension', they're all different. What they have in common IMHO is that where they are good it's likely to be because of a) excessive union power in the 70s and b) Tory policy of 'pay restraint' in the 80s and 90s which offered better pensions in lieu of more pay to 'balance the books' ie short-termism. To be fair, Major's govt did have a stab at reforming some of them but it'd take a long time to make much difference.

[Countdown]

V8 Fettler said:

I have several employers, although probably not as you would define. "Just a personal pension" ... "Just"

If you have "several employers" then you should join their pensions schemes. that way you will get employers making contributions into your pension fund. Contact their HR departments for further advice.

[V8 Fettler]

Countdown said:

V8 Fettler said:

I have several employers, although probably not as you would define. "Just a personal pension" ... "Just"

If you have "several employers" then you should join their pensions schemes. that way you will get employers making contributions into your pension fund. Contact their HR departments for further advice.

Employers in a contractual sense, as in "Employer - Contractor".

[V8 Fettler]

Sticks. said:

V8 Fettler said:

The biggest issues with the financial sector arise from the lack of accountability and the lack of transparency, leading to insular, self-serving empires that fail to adequately serve the people who pay for them. This can only change when individuals who fail to perform are subject to financial penalties and/or sackings and/or criminal proceedings.

Couldn't resist I'm afraid.

FWIW there is no one 'public sector pension', they're all different. What they have in common IMHO is that where they are good it's likely to be because of a) excessive union power in the 70s and b) Tory policy of 'pay restraint' in the 80s and 90s which offered better pensions in lieu of more pay to 'balance the books' ie short-termism. To be fair, Major's govt did have a stab at reforming some of them but it'd take a long time to make much difference.

Have you quoted the right post? My comment was rather wide ranging and didn't particularly refer to pensions.

[anonymous-user]

Countdown said:

V8 Fettler said:

A bizarre and feeble analogy.

Are there many public sector pension schemes where the employer contribution is zero?

No (AFAIK)

Are there many private sector pension schemes where the employer contribution
is zero?

Yes, many. Now are you going to answer the original question?

[Sticks.]

V8 Fettler said:

Have you quoted the right post? My comment was rather wide ranging and didn't particularly refer to pensions.

Sorry, was making two seperate points, the second being the general way we all refer to 'public sector pensions' as if they are uniform, not you specifically

[Countdown]

V8 Fettler said:

Employers in a contractual sense, as in "Employer - Contractor".

It seems that you don't understand how Pension schemes work. Employers are only obliged to make pension contributions for their Employees. You are NOT an employee. You are self employed. That is pretty much the same reason why you don't make pension contributions for your taxi driver, window cleaner, or the person who serves you in Asda.

[Countdown]

REALIST123 said:

Countdown said:

V8 Fettler said:

A bizarre and feeble analogy.

Are there many public sector pension schemes where the employer contribution is zero?

No (AFAIK)

Are there many private sector pension schemes where the employer contribution
is zero?

Yes, many. Now are you going to answer the original question?

I've answered it. In the post you've quoted.

[V8 Fettler]

Countdown said:

V8 Fettler said:

Employers in a contractual sense, as in "Employer - Contractor".

It seems that you don't understand how Pension schemes work. Employers are only obliged to make pension contributions for their Employees. You are NOT an employee. You are self employed. That is pretty much the same reason why you don't make pension contributions for your taxi driver, window cleaner, or the person who serves you in Asda.

It seems you don't understand the term "Employer". I have several contracts in place where the other party is defined as "the Employer".

[Countdown]

V8 Fettler said:

It seems you don't understand the term "Employer". I have several contracts in place where the other party is defined as "the Employer".

They are not Contracts of Employment. They are probably Contracts for Service. You are not an Employee. You are not on their payroll. You do not pay "Employee" contributions into their pension Scheme. As such they are NOT obliged to make "Employer" contributions for you in their pension scheme.

So, can you actually show me an Employer pension scheme where the employer makes zero contributions?

[mph1977]

V8 Fettler said:

Countdown said:

V8 Fettler said:

I have several employers, although probably not as you would define. "Just a personal pension" ... "Just"

If you have "several employers" then you should join their pensions schemes. that way you will get employers making contributions into your pension fund. Contact their HR departments for further advice.

Employers in a contractual sense, as in "Employer - Contractor".

so you don't in fact have an employer , you have , through your own person al choice and desire to be a Powerfully Built COmpany Director decided to opt out of these nacieties in favour of a higher hourly rate ...

[mph1977]

Countdown said:

V8 Fettler said:

It seems you don't understand the term "Employer". I have several contracts in place where the other party is defined as "the Employer".

They are not Contracts of Employment. They are probably Contracts for Service. You are not an Employee. You are not on their payroll. You do not pay "Employee" contributions into their pension Scheme. As such they are NOT obliged to make "Employer" contributions for you in their pension scheme.

So, can you actually show me an Employer pension scheme where the employer makes zero contributions?

he won;t becasue he can;t , becasue schemes of that nature are now banned / closed to new entrants under the auto enrolment into workplace pensions system currently in operation.

[Countdown]

mph1977 said:

so you don't in fact have an employer , you have , through your own person al choice and desire to be a Powerfully Built COmpany Director decided to opt out of these nacieties in favour of a higher hourly rate ...

If V8F had a high hourly rate I don't think he'd be that jealous of Public Sector Employees pensions.....

[turbobloke]

Countdown said:

mph1977 said:

so you don't in fact have an employer , you have , through your own person al choice and desire to be a Powerfully Built COmpany Director decided to opt out of these nacieties in favour of a higher hourly rate ...

If V8F had a high hourly rate I don't think he'd be that jealous of Public Sector Employees pensions.....

Has V8F stated that he's jealous of public sector employees - that looks like an unjustified assumption.

[V8 Fettler]

Countdown said:

V8 Fettler said:

It seems you don't understand the term "Employer". I have several contracts in place where the other party is defined as "the Employer".

They are not Contracts of Employment. They are probably Contracts for Service. You are not an Employee. You are not on their payroll. You do not pay "Employee" contributions into their pension Scheme. As such they are NOT obliged to make "Employer" contributions for you in their pension scheme.

So, can you actually show me an Employer pension scheme where the employer makes zero contributions?

I did say "probably not as you would define", was that too cryptic? You're moving the goalposts from "private sector pension scheme" to "employer pension scheme". Big difference.

[mph1977]

V8 Fettler said:

Countdown said:

V8 Fettler said:

It seems you don't understand the term "Employer". I have several contracts in place where the other party is defined as "the Employer".

They are not Contracts of Employment. They are probably Contracts for Service. You are not an Employee. You are not on their payroll. You do not pay "Employee" contributions into their pension Scheme. As such they are NOT obliged to make "Employer" contributions for you in their pension scheme.

So, can you actually show me an Employer pension scheme where the employer makes zero contributions?

I did say "probably not as you would define", was that too cryptic? You're moving the goalposts from "private sector pension scheme" to "employer pension scheme". Big difference.

a 'private' pension is a totally seperate beast to a workplace pension ... it is you who are attempting to move the goalposts here ...

[Countdown]

V8 Fettler said:

I did say "probably not as you would define", was that too cryptic? You're moving the goalposts from "private sector pension scheme" to "employer pension scheme". Big difference.

Not at all. It HAS to be an "Employer pension scheme" if you want an "Employer contributions". Personal pensions do not have employer contributions because they're "personal". In both cases the clue's in the name.

[V8 Fettler]

mph1977 said:

V8 Fettler said:

Countdown said:

V8 Fettler said:

I have several employers, although probably not as you would define. "Just a personal pension" ... "Just"

If you have "several employers" then you should join their pensions schemes. that way you will get employers making contributions into your pension fund. Contact their HR departments for further advice.

Employers in a contractual sense, as in "Employer - Contractor".

so you don't in fact have an employer , you have , through your own person al choice and desire to be a Powerfully Built COmpany Director decided to opt out of these nacieties in favour of a higher hourly rate ...

As I said, I have some involvement in several contracts where the other party is defined as an "Employer". Long time since I enjoyed the benefits of an hourly rate, but enough of the personal stuff. It is possible to earn an honest shekel or two other than as a director/employee.