Public sector watch
Discussion
valiant said:
What if they were doing it on their lunch break?
Most employers allow this, don't they?
Don't know about the public sector. The article states 'a council spokeswoman denied this was a cause for concern and said the usage complied with the authority’s internet policy which is similar to that in other councils: “You confine use to authorised breaks, lunch breaks or just before or just after normal working hours”.' So it's plausible but suggesting that public sector nonjobbers would waste their breaks when status updating and online dating can be done on taxpayer time lacks credibility. It'd be like using holiday allowance to watch a footie match when there's a second or even a third granny who hasn't popped off yet, or some self-cert sickie time is available. Most employers allow this, don't they?
turbobloke said:
OK, but some people do see a difference in terms of wasting taxpayers' money rather than wasting privately owned money.
If private sector employers want to flush their own money down the toilet by allowing workers not to work when they're meant to be working and being paid to work, that's their choice with their own money. Public sector managers flushing public money taken from hardworking class taxpayers down the loo by not tackling timewasters isn't the same thing at all because it's taxpayers' money. Obvious, really.
Thanks for clearing that up, I had no idea about the difference, really If private sector employers want to flush their own money down the toilet by allowing workers not to work when they're meant to be working and being paid to work, that's their choice with their own money. Public sector managers flushing public money taken from hardworking class taxpayers down the loo by not tackling timewasters isn't the same thing at all because it's taxpayers' money. Obvious, really.
Regarding whether it annoys you more or not (which was the question, albeit not to you) I can't see a difference. If I had paid for a plumber to come and fix a leak with an hourly rate charge, it would be equally annoying to see him sat on his phone playing Angry Birds.
Why it could be considered any more annoying just because it's public sector, passes me by - fortunately?
Not once does it say the public sector bods are using these sites on work time, in fact it is mentioned that they are doing it at lunch etc. The non-news article is merely a list of sites looked at in personal time, Im sure if PH web habits were looked at,SugarDaddies would be a LOT higher up(all being powerfully built company directors,lusted after by "easy" council worker types,of course 
)
) 
SpeedMattersNot said:
If I had paid for a plumber to come and fix a leak with an hourly rate charge, it would be equally annoying to see him sat on his phone playing Angry Birds.
Indeed but the situations aren't sufficiently comparable. You would (by definition) have noticed, and be able to enter into a discussion (!) with said plumber, and if that didn't work out then you could decide to not use them again. In public sector nonjobbery, the waste of our money remains unchecked as those charged with supervising the waste of our taxes don't take any such notice, or subsequent action, often enough - and we don't have a choice about not paying our local Council Tax by using a competitor who is willing to ensure our taxes are used rather than abused.If action was taken I can imagine claims for compensation being engineered by these stressed Farcebookers, and won, given the prevailing level of insanity. As to being bothered, it may generate comment but won't spoil people's day too much
but that doesn't excuse anything surely.kowalski655 said:
Not once does it say the public sector bods are using these sites on work time, in fact it is mentioned that they are doing it at lunch etc. The non-news article is merely a list of sites looked at in personal time, Im sure if PH web habits were looked at,SugarDaddies would be a LOT higher up(all being powerfully built company directors,lusted after by "easy" council worker types,of course )
Having not worked for a Council ever but having been present in such workspaces, my eyesight and earsight were good enough to see and hear timewasting of epic proportions. As well as some people working hard and doing a good job. Those people doing an honest day's work frequently complained - but not to their bosses as it was seen as a waste of time - that they were paid the same as the wasters. It's not just private sector folk who are annoyed by people in town halls taking the psss with other people's money.) turbobloke said:
Having not worked for a Council ever but having been present in such workspaces, my eyesight and earsight were good enough to see and hear timewasting of epic proportions. As well as some people working hard and doing a good job. Those people doing an honest day's work frequently complained - but not to their bosses as it was seen as a waste of time - that they were paid the same as the wasters. It's not just private sector folk who are annoyed by people in town halls taking the psss with other people's money.
I get the same feeling when I've been stuck waiting at the tills for 15 minutes, only to leave the shop to find half the staff having a fag outside, or waiting for an overdue car at a garage and the mechanics are stood around chatting.No worker ever devotes 100% of their time to their job.
Do you think our council tax would go down if the staff suddenly stopped behaving like normal people?
eccles said:
turbobloke said:
Having not worked for a Council ever but having been present in such workspaces, my eyesight and earsight were good enough to see and hear timewasting of epic proportions. As well as some people working hard and doing a good job. Those people doing an honest day's work frequently complained - but not to their bosses as it was seen as a waste of time - that they were paid the same as the wasters. It's not just private sector folk who are annoyed by people in town halls taking the psss with other people's money.
I get the same feeling when I've been stuck waiting at the tills for 15 minutes, only to leave the shop to find half the staff having a fag outside, or waiting for an overdue car at a garage and the mechanics are stood around chatting.No worker ever devotes 100% of their time to their job.
Do you think our council tax would go down if the staff suddenly stopped behaving like normal people?
In the private sector this will happen, but less, as people will be sacked for it.
Not devoting 100% to the job - in work hours not breaks - presumably entitles the person paying the wages not to pay 100% of the salary.
eccles said:
turbobloke said:
In the private sector this will happen, but less, as people will be sacked for it.
You are implying that those in the public sector would not be sacked for it, when the regularly are.eccles said:
turbobloke said:
Having not worked for a Council ever but having been present in such workspaces, my eyesight and earsight were good enough to see and hear timewasting of epic proportions. As well as some people working hard and doing a good job. Those people doing an honest day's work frequently complained - but not to their bosses as it was seen as a waste of time - that they were paid the same as the wasters. It's not just private sector folk who are annoyed by people in town halls taking the psss with other people's money.
I get the same feeling when I've been stuck waiting at the tills for 15 minutes, only to leave the shop to find half the staff having a fag outside, or waiting for an overdue car at a garage and the mechanics are stood around chatting.No worker ever devotes 100% of their time to their job.
Do you think our council tax would go down if the staff suddenly stopped behaving like normal people?
mrmr96 said:
eccles said:
turbobloke said:
Having not worked for a Council ever but having been present in such workspaces, my eyesight and earsight were good enough to see and hear timewasting of epic proportions. As well as some people working hard and doing a good job. Those people doing an honest day's work frequently complained - but not to their bosses as it was seen as a waste of time - that they were paid the same as the wasters. It's not just private sector folk who are annoyed by people in town halls taking the psss with other people's money.
I get the same feeling when I've been stuck waiting at the tills for 15 minutes, only to leave the shop to find half the staff having a fag outside, or waiting for an overdue car at a garage and the mechanics are stood around chatting.No worker ever devotes 100% of their time to their job.
Do you think our council tax would go down if the staff suddenly stopped behaving like normal people?
turbobloke said:
SpeedMattersNot said:
If I had paid for a plumber to come and fix a leak with an hourly rate charge, it would be equally annoying to see him sat on his phone playing Angry Birds.
Indeed but the situations aren't sufficiently comparable. You would (by definition) have noticed, and be able to enter into a discussion (!) with said plumber, and if that didn't work out then you could decide to not use them again. In public sector nonjobbery, the waste of our money remains unchecked as those charged with supervising the waste of our taxes don't take any such notice, or subsequent action, often enough - and we don't have a choice about not paying our local Council Tax by using a competitor who is willing to ensure our taxes are used rather than abused.If action was taken I can imagine claims for compensation being engineered by these stressed Farcebookers, and won, given the prevailing level of insanity. As to being bothered, it may generate comment but won't spoil people's day too much
but that doesn't excuse anything surely.Perhaps the plumber was a poor comparison, as you say. Maybe the example of a vehicle technician, who uses the company computers to access various websites, while you're paying an hourly rate for him to fix your car he's sipping from his mug of coffee and has even pinched one of your chewing gums out of your car. You'd be none-the-wiser to his actions...to find that less annoying just because it's in the private sector, is what I don't understand.
I think in reality, you'd never be able to find a plumber, or a mechanic, or any service that didn't knowingly employ members of staff who occasionally checked facebook whilst at work - not that the link even referred to that in the first place
The amount of skiving / Spanish practices / taking the proverbial in any organisation is proportional to the number of management layers between the Employee and the CEO/Owner.
If anybody assumes that a private sector employee in a large organisation is somehow naturally more diligent than a public sector employee in a similar sized organisation they're deluding themselves.
If anybody assumes that a private sector employee in a large organisation is somehow naturally more diligent than a public sector employee in a similar sized organisation they're deluding themselves.
eccles said:
You are making the same mistake as Turbobloke. You both seem to think that public sector staff should be subject to some sort of higher standards of discipline than private sector workers.
If you really think employees behave the same way in public sector as private sector, how do you explain the many surveys which show public sector workers require about twice as many days off sick every year? Strange that. 
Edited by eybic on Friday 20th February 10:20
Ozzie Osmond said:
If you really think employees behave the same way in public sector as private sector, how do you explain the many surveys which show public sector workers require about twice as many days off sick every year? Strange that.
I think a comparison between private sector and the self-employed would be revealing. I think you'll find that private sector employees take considerably more time off than the self-employed, with people working for large organisations being by far the worst.Edited by eybic on Friday 20th February 10:20
Ozzie Osmond said:
If you really think employees behave the same way in public sector as private sector, how do you explain the many surveys which show public sector workers require about twice as many days off sick every year? Strange that.
It's very stressful dealing with the public all day. Edited by eybic on Friday 20th February 10:21
All public sector salaries (and benefits) should be calculated and set in law as certain percentages of an MP / Cabinet member / PM's salary, with the same entitlements for allowances, expenses and discounted work's canteen.
They more senor psts, obviously get a greater percentage than more junior posts.
Then a pay rise in the House of Conmen would also be a payrise for all of the public sector. If the troughers want to show public sector pay restraint, they can restrain themselves as an example.
We are, after all, all in this together.
They more senor psts, obviously get a greater percentage than more junior posts.
Then a pay rise in the House of Conmen would also be a payrise for all of the public sector. If the troughers want to show public sector pay restraint, they can restrain themselves as an example.
We are, after all, all in this together.
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