North Korea - how serious should we take them?

North Korea - how serious should we take them?

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Discussion

10 Pence Short

32,880 posts

216 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
Zod said:
NK would obviously cause damage and a lot of casualties on the first day or so in SK, but it would all be over very quickly.
"Herro, is that China? Herro? We need your help. You promised! Herro!?"

Click. Brrrrrrr.

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
10 Pence Short said:
Zod said:
NK would obviously cause damage and a lot of casualties on the first day or so in SK, but it would all be over very quickly.
"Herro, is that China? Herro? We need your help. You promised! Herro!?"

Click. Brrrrrrr.
"Stupid little boy. We told you we didn't care what nonsense you got up to in your own country, but you're on your own against the Americans. We have money to make."

superkartracer

8,959 posts

221 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
Zod said:
superkartracer said:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/31/south...

500 odd shells fired in a bit of a test the other day, they seemed to work.
NK would obviously cause damage and a lot of casualties on the first day or so in SK, but it would all be over very quickly.
100% agree but give the little enough time and he'll have a working Nuke..

ChemicalChaos

10,360 posts

159 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
superkartracer said:
100% agree but give the little enough time and he'll have a working Nuke..
He already has one... But despite being as big as their ancient Taep O Dong rockets (badly copied ripoffs of Ruski cold war missiles) can carry, the yield is so pathetic that detonating it in the middle of Central Park would leave Times Square unaffected laugh

Of course, that assuming the missile doesn't miss the USA completely....

irocfan

40,153 posts

189 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
superkartracer said:
quantity has a quality all of its own

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
irocfan said:
superkartracer said:
quantity has a quality all of its own
How many Stealth Bomber raids and Tomahawks would it take to obliterate most of that? Not many.

Troubleatmill

10,210 posts

158 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
Zod said:
irocfan said:
superkartracer said:
quantity has a quality all of its own
How many Stealth Bomber raids and Tomahawks would it take to obliterate most of that? Not many.
The Russians did fine with quantity in WW2.
German tanks were more accurate, better made.

Russia had lots and lots of really ste tanks with woeful targeting and still took the German tanks out.

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
Troubleatmill said:
Zod said:
irocfan said:
superkartracer said:
quantity has a quality all of its own
How many Stealth Bomber raids and Tomahawks would it take to obliterate most of that? Not many.
The Russians did fine with quantity in WW2.
German tanks were more accurate, better made.

Russia had lots and lots of really ste tanks with woeful targeting and still took the German tanks out.
You could not be more wrong. The T34 was a work of genius, described by Guderian as "the best tank in the world".

hidetheelephants

23,772 posts

192 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
Zod said:
Troubleatmill said:
Zod said:
irocfan said:
superkartracer said:
quantity has a quality all of its own
How many Stealth Bomber raids and Tomahawks would it take to obliterate most of that? Not many.
The Russians did fine with quantity in WW2.
German tanks were more accurate, better made.

Russia had lots and lots of really ste tanks with woeful targeting and still took the German tanks out.
You could not be more wrong. The T34 was a work of genius, described by Guderian as "the best tank in the world".
What he said; They didn't build 50k+ T34s for sts and giggles, they did it because they were good tanks and qualitatively a reasonable match for the Panther, especially once the T34/85 appeared. Doing all that while being built at a 1:10 ratio meant the Wehrmacht got reamed. The basic designs of the Panther and the T34 were similar(indeed, the Panther was inspired by captured T34s), but the Russians kicked the Germans' arse in the value engineering dept.

skyrover

12,668 posts

203 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
would take a t-34 any day over a churchill

jmorgan

36,010 posts

283 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
They also battered the Germans with superior numbers. The casualty figures are interesting.

Talksteer

4,843 posts

232 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
hidetheelephants said:
Zod said:
Troubleatmill said:
Zod said:
irocfan said:
superkartracer said:
quantity has a quality all of its own
How many Stealth Bomber raids and Tomahawks would it take to obliterate most of that? Not many.
The Russians did fine with quantity in WW2.
German tanks were more accurate, better made.

Russia had lots and lots of really ste tanks with woeful targeting and still took the German tanks out.
You could not be more wrong. The T34 was a work of genius, described by Guderian as "the best tank in the world".
What he said; They didn't build 50k+ T34s for sts and giggles, they did it because they were good tanks and qualitatively a reasonable match for the Panther, especially once the T34/85 appeared. Doing all that while being built at a 1:10 ratio meant the Wehrmacht got reamed. The basic designs of the Panther and the T34 were similar(indeed, the Panther was inspired by captured T34s), but the Russians kicked the Germans' arse in the value engineering dept.
The T34 is "rear wheel drive" the Panzerkampfwagen V Pather is "front wheel drive". The T34 had christie suspension the Panther had interlevered torsion beams, both were equally over engineered and difficult to service.

The only thing they have in common is the sloped glacis plate and eventually a high velocity gun.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
As far as the KPAF goes, these stats are generally considered to be fairly accurate. Given the issues we have keeping 60 odd Hawk T1s in the air there is no hope in hell that NK have any more than whats listed below!

Fighter aircraft: 484
Only 23 are known to be operational. 7 MiG-29s, and 16 MiG-23

Strike aircraft: 194
Less than 11 are known to be operational. All are SU-25s.

Trainer aircraft: 357
Less than 30 are known to be operational.

Transport aircraft: ~500
Less than 30 are known to be operational. 2 Il-76MDs, < 4 Mi-8s, < 20 Mi-2s

Other: 82+
Less than 19 are known to be operational. 1 Antonov An-24, and 18 MD-500D

The older stuff will be unserviceable but kept shiny so they look good at military parades for Dear Leader. The few pilots they have get something like <20 flying hours per year so its fair to say that any half-competent combat pilot could spoil their day. I would suspect that if NK jets ever flew in combat it would be Chinese mercenaries in the seats not Koreans.

this is quite a good read
http://www.nknews.org/2013/08/why-is-tracking-nort...

smegmore

3,091 posts

175 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
Talksteer said:
The T34 is "rear wheel drive" the Panzerkampfwagen V Pather is "front wheel drive". The T34 had christie suspension the Panther had interlevered torsion beams, both were equally over engineered and difficult to service.

The only thing they have in common is the sloped glacis plate and eventually a high velocity gun.

Good tank info, thanks

just noticed...

great username !! thumbup

irocfan

40,153 posts

189 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
jmorgan said:
They also battered the Germans with superior numbers. The casualty figures are interesting.
^^^ this - did I read that the NK have got nearly 10,000,000 people either in the armed forces (or farces if you think like some) or reservists.... that would be carnage on an unimaginable scale

FourWheelDrift

88,381 posts

283 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
irocfan said:
^^^ this - did I read that the NK have got nearly 10,000,000 people either in the armed forces (or farces if you think like some) or reservists.... that would be carnage on an unimaginable scale
The North Korean army would never invade the south, as they wouldn't have 10million fighters, but 10million deserters as soon as the cross the border. Then Kim in the north will be very ronery.

smile

Troubleatmill

10,210 posts

158 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
hidetheelephants said:
Zod said:
Troubleatmill said:
Zod said:
irocfan said:
superkartracer said:
quantity has a quality all of its own
How many Stealth Bomber raids and Tomahawks would it take to obliterate most of that? Not many.
The Russians did fine with quantity in WW2.
German tanks were more accurate, better made.

Russia had lots and lots of really ste tanks with woeful targeting and still took the German tanks out.
You could not be more wrong. The T34 was a work of genius, described by Guderian as "the best tank in the world".
What he said; They didn't build 50k+ T34s for sts and giggles, they did it because they were good tanks and qualitatively a reasonable match for the Panther, especially once the T34/85 appeared. Doing all that while being built at a 1:10 ratio meant the Wehrmacht got reamed. The basic designs of the Panther and the T34 were similar(indeed, the Panther was inspired by captured T34s), but the Russians kicked the Germans' arse in the value engineering dept.
If I could only remember the documentary on the German tank I got my info from.

Happy to stand corrected.

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
Troubleatmill said:
If I could only remember the documentary on the German tank I got my info from.
Happy to stand corrected.
Quality control impeded the top German tank at Kursk, and the Tiger wasn't invulnerable or in sufficient numbers.
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/tiger_tank.ht...
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/battle_of_kur...

smegmore

3,091 posts

175 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
FourWheelDrift said:
The North Korean army would never invade the south, as they wouldn't have 10million fighters, but 10million deserters as soon as the cross the border. Then Kim in the north will be very ronery.

smile
I wouldn't be so sure about that with the amount of propaganda and brainwashing pumped into the NK population, "give your lives in defence of the glorious leader" or similar, I suspect.

Something akin to the Japanese philosophy of WW2.


Justin Cyder

12,624 posts

148 months

Thursday 10th April 2014
quotequote all
A million killed by famine in the 90's & the proliferation of DVD's & other forms of illicit media are helping the scales to fall from North Korean eyes. I think we can begin to assert a difference between blind loyalty & an all pervasive security apparatus keeping the people cowed.