North Korea - how serious should we take them?

[Sway]

AstonZagato said:

Cobnapint said:

or, nip this in the bud and send a strong message in the form of half a dozen Paveways and 1000 pounders by next day delivery to level said facility, and bear the consequences.

The South Korean capital, Seoul, is within conventional artillery range of the North Korean border. It is home to 10 million people.

Considering the timescale and the money in the South, I'm amazed Seoul doesn't have some form of Iron Dome type system to protect it. Perhaps a couple of hundred of those close protection machineguns they have on navy ships?

[skyrover]

Efbe said:

or perhaps realise that trying to take a country's sovereignty, forcing them through laws imposed by other countries, threatening them, flying over them continuously, preventing trade so they can work their way out of poverty is fking ridiculous, and what is making this whole situation 10 times worse.

but yeah, bomb/threaten/shoot people to show them whats right, seemed to work in vietnam/Cuba/Iraq/Guatemala etc etc.

not saying I like/agree/support Kim at all in any way shape or form, but what do you actually expect these sanctions to do? It's certainly not him that starving!

Total bks... the North Koreans are in a situation of their own making.

The Chinese tried to get them to reform long a similar path to themselves and the end result was the North Korean ambassador to China executed.

The only way things will change in North Korea will be the Chinese removing life support, resulting in massive turmoil and potentially thousands of starving North Koreans pouring over the Chinese border, not to mention the risk of war on the peninsula.

Stuck between a rock and a hard place comes to mind.

[ApOrbital]

Sway said:

Considering the timescale and the money in the South, I'm amazed Seoul doesn't have some form of Iron Dome type system to protect it. Perhaps a couple of hundred of those close protection machineguns they have on navy ships?

The yanks are setting one up for very soon.

[Efbe]

skyrover said:

Total bks... the North Koreans are in a situation of their own making.

The Chinese tried to get them to reform long a similar path to themselves and the end result was the North Korean ambassador to China executed.

The only way things will change in North Korea will be the Chinese removing life support, resulting in massive turmoil and potentially thousands of starving North Koreans pouring over the Chinese border, not to mention the risk of war on the peninsula.

Stuck between a rock and a hard place comes to mind.

The North Koreans?
you mean a single North Korean. Lets wipe out a country for the sake of one chubby despot.

Even if there is a wider circle of power quite as nuts as the leader is and his father was; when has brute force ever helped in a situation like this?

[skyrover]

Efbe said:

skyrover said:

Total bks... the North Koreans are in a situation of their own making.

The Chinese tried to get them to reform long a similar path to themselves and the end result was the North Korean ambassador to China executed.

The only way things will change in North Korea will be the Chinese removing life support, resulting in massive turmoil and potentially thousands of starving North Koreans pouring over the Chinese border, not to mention the risk of war on the peninsula.

Stuck between a rock and a hard place comes to mind.

The North Koreans?
you mean a single North Korean. Lets wipe out a country for the sake of one chubby despot.

Even if there is a wider circle of power quite as nuts as the leader is and his father was; when has brute force ever helped in a situation like this?

We couldn't even wipe out ISIS, there's no chance we could "wipe out" North Korea.

I can see it getting to the point of a "Grand Bargain" between the South Koreans, the Chinese and the USA. It's likely been discussed already, the details are probably be fought over as we speak.

Watch this space.

[stevesingo]

South Korea should capitulate and declare North Korea the victor in the Korean war and set out a plan for the North to take over the control and integration of the South.

As soon as the North and South people start integrating, the despot’s days will be numbered.

[KTF]

The joint industrial complex on the border has been closed as part of the sanctions:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35539346

[Timmy40]

ApOrbital said:

Sway said:

Considering the timescale and the money in the South, I'm amazed Seoul doesn't have some form of Iron Dome type system to protect it. Perhaps a couple of hundred of those close protection machineguns they have on navy ships?

The yanks are setting one up for very soon.

Or the Yanks will send in Team America? People say they're dicks, but the North Koreans are pussies, and dicks fk pussies.

[amusingduck]

Timmy40 said:

ApOrbital said:

Sway said:

Considering the timescale and the money in the South, I'm amazed Seoul doesn't have some form of Iron Dome type system to protect it. Perhaps a couple of hundred of those close protection machineguns they have on navy ships?

The yanks are setting one up for very soon.

Or the Yanks will send in Team America? People say they're dicks, but the North Koreans are pussies, and dicks fk pussies.

But Kim is an asshole. We'll end up with dicks and pussies all covered in st!

[Efbe]

stevesingo said:

South Korea should capitulate and declare North Korea the victor in the Korean war and set out a plan for the North to take over the control and integration of the South.

As soon as the North and South people start integrating, the despot’s days will be numbered.

having lived in South Korea for a while a few few years back, I can say (without the bias of media) that in general south koreans think of NK as old family members, and would welcome reunification.
What is stopping this from happening according to them is US intervention. Though read this as all external intervention, as the US become easy targets in this situation.

IMO if the trade sanctions were lifted, communications improved, then integration with the south would start up naturally and we would be well on the road to a more normal NK.

Forget about Kim, the road to resolution is a long one and Kim will be long gone by the time this is all resolved, which is why forward thinking policies need to be devised rather than reactionary sanctions aimed at the leader, with the impact on the NK population.

So if SK welcomes Kim with open arms, you would probably get the best long term situation of an eventually reunification, or at least NK becoming a clone of SK.

[maxxy5]

But is that what China would want?

[Cobnapint]

Efbe said:

The North Koreans?
you mean a single North Korean. Lets wipe out a country for the sake of one chubby despot.

Even if there is a wider circle of power quite as nuts as the leader is and his father was; when has brute force ever helped in a situation like this?

It's probably the complete 'lack' of brute force that has allowed the chubby despot to get as far down the nuclear missile route that he has.

Nobody is suggesting wiping out NK, despite the fact that all North Koreans are taught from a very early age that Japan and America are their sworn enemies, and should themselves, be wiped out.

You are not dealing with a regime of particularly high morals or rationale here, or a population that is able to think for themselves (the ones that did are currently enjoying all expenses paid open ended holidays at one of the many luxury DPRK funded 'correction' camps scattered around their dear leaders motherland).

[moustachebandit]

NK is a wicked problem - it doesn't matter what you try and do its going to end in a disaster.

War would be a long drawn out affair - the DPRK doesn't have the equipment but they wont just fold. North Koreans have a deep hatred for the US / Allies after years of indoctrination so resistance at all levels will be high.

If Kim was toppled, the limited resources / food / structure would dry up and it would result in 23 million refugee's sitting on China's border, they cant go south.

North Korean civilians simply wont integrate on mass - they were one people but they are now two totally differentcultures. There is a reason why defectors are kept at facilities for 6 months and slowly integrated into SK life. A lot of defectors report their issues with the new way of life, and anger at their situation. It would be massive civil unrest - whilst there are some South Koreans who would like to see a reunification there are also a lot of them that see it as a massive problem.

North Korea has almost nothing to offer anyone other than uneducated, malnourished, indoctrinated workforce and severely limited natural resources and food production - who wants to stake a claim on that?

Its easy to point fingers at the US / SK for manipulating the situation but your stupid if you don't think China & Russia are also pulling string n the background for their own gain.

The only way for the North Korean problem to be resolved is that Kim is toppled from inside by someone with a more moderate, friendly approach to world integration and then over a period of many, many years slowly open up NK & its people to the world, help them build an economy, feed the population and move them out of the decaying kitsch 1960's communist paradise it currently is.

NK might ultimately unravel from inside, mainly thanks to Chinese black market imports of electronics, music, TV, clothing. North Korea is struggling to keep the rest of the world out which will only build dissent as people start to realise there is a better life out there. I read an article a year or so ago that showed that divorce rates have jumped & detention camps have grown sizeably which means that the DPRK is working hard to retain control over the population.

Edited by moustachebandit on Wednesday 10th February 14:48

[Munter]

moustachebandit said:

NK might ultimately unravel from inside, mainly thanks to Chinese black market imports of electronics, music, TV, clothing. North Korea is struggling to keep the rest of the world out which will only build dissent as people start to realise there is a better life out there. I read an article a year or so ago that showed that divorce rates have jumped & detention camps have grown sizeably which means that the DPRK is working hard to retain control over the population.

My theory is still that you flood the place with food wrapped in "propaganda". Make the population ask why the rest of the world has so much food to give, yet their gov can't find any, and why everybody else has freedoms they don't have.

It's not point doing it with a few balloons. It has to be a case of not going outside in case you get hit by falling cans of beans and spam.

[Timmy40]

Munter said:

It's not point doing it with a few balloons. It has to be a case of not going outside in case you get hit by falling cans of beans and spam.

I think a ground based approach would be more precise and result in fewer casualties, something like an adaptation of this missile system, fitted with a spam warhead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin

Added to the shock and awe would be the psychological fear of being on the wrong end of a US Marines spam javelin....

[hidetheelephants]

moustachebandit said:

North Korea has almost nothing to offer anyone other than uneducated, malnourished, indoctrinated workforce and severely limited natural resources and food production - who wants to stake a claim on that?

They have pretty rich mineral resources; barring coal most of it is relatively untouched as they are ste at extracting it and have no market for their st products beyond tiny domestic consumption and occasional exports of coal to China. A least worst option might be to maintain NK with a caretaker government if fatso has lead poisoning/heart attack, feeding them and bootstrapping via low wages and ready access for RoK's big corporates, who would all really want cheap labour and raw materials to boost their competitiveness with China. As wages and productivity rise the NKs can pay for their own modernisation rather than destroying the RoK economy for 20 years to pay for it. A sudden re-unification like Germany would probably be a disaster, but a phased reintegration might stand a chance of working and not completely pissing off China.

[ApOrbital]

He killed his right hand man last week,

North Korea 'executes' army chief of staff Ri Yong-gil.

[MartG]

ApOrbital said:

He killed his right hand man last week,

North Korea 'executes' army chief of staff Ri Yong-gil.

With the number of 'close' advisers he's had executed over the last few years it's odds on the lucky ones who are still alive will assassinate him simply in order to survive

[Cobnapint]

Hello children, welcome to school this fine morning...! And our first lesson today is...........brainwashing!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2163817/Ho...

[MartG]

So how long will this guy last ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35632887?OCID...