Archbishop Warns Against 'Hero Worship'...What About Jesus?
Discussion
SpeckledJim said:
You can't encourage faith. Faith either 'is' or 'isn't'.
Anyone who hears someone, however authoritative, say 'have faith' who then decides to have faith, is going to miss the mark.
You can't consciously opt-in for a belief. It just happens, or just doesn't.
What.. of course you can.Anyone who hears someone, however authoritative, say 'have faith' who then decides to have faith, is going to miss the mark.
You can't consciously opt-in for a belief. It just happens, or just doesn't.
What did missionary do?
What do various wars in history do.
What does Sunday school attempt to do?
So what made your belief the correct choice over the others?
SpeckledJim said:
You can't encourage faith. Faith either 'is' or 'isn't'.
Anyone who hears someone, however authoritative, say 'have faith' who then decides to have faith, is going to miss the mark.
You can't consciously opt-in for a belief. It just happens, or just doesn't.
I'd disagree with that, on the grounds upbringing plays a huge part in belief. Children raised in a religious household are not making a choice, they're just assuming said faith is normal as that's their day to day experience growing up. Fair enough if people go to a belief as an adult, but I'd suggest a great many people believe what they believe for no other reason than it's wired into them as children.Anyone who hears someone, however authoritative, say 'have faith' who then decides to have faith, is going to miss the mark.
You can't consciously opt-in for a belief. It just happens, or just doesn't.
hornet said:
I'd disagree with that, on the grounds upbringing plays a huge part in belief. Children raised in a religious household are not making a choice, they're just assuming said faith is normal as that's their day to day experience growing up. Fair enough if people go to a belief as an adult, but I'd suggest a great many people believe what they believe for no other reason than it's wired into them as children.
And yet, and yet....Many children brought up in very religious households still manage to make their own minds up on what they want to believe...
joe_90 said:
SpeckledJim said:
You can't encourage faith. Faith either 'is' or 'isn't'.
Anyone who hears someone, however authoritative, say 'have faith' who then decides to have faith, is going to miss the mark.
You can't consciously opt-in for a belief. It just happens, or just doesn't.
What.. of course you can.Anyone who hears someone, however authoritative, say 'have faith' who then decides to have faith, is going to miss the mark.
You can't consciously opt-in for a belief. It just happens, or just doesn't.
What did missionary do?
What do various wars in history do.
What does Sunday school attempt to do?
So what made your belief the correct choice over the others?
I don't have beliefs. I have truths... They are given to me as-and-when by 'science'.
There we go, I said it'd sound bad.
If the Archbishop wants to impress me, lets hear him speak out about the things his church 'believes' which our backwards British society has already ruled as illegal.
Come on Mr Welby, you won't have got far in the big money oil industry by preaching the inferiority of women and homosexuals, so you know the lay of the land here.
Who's right - your former employers who played by parliament's rules, or your current employers, who ignore them by dint of inertia and the absence of fear of our spineless MPs?
Women - Equal or Not Equal. Come on... it's one or the other...'different' is not a reasonable answer..
hornet said:
SpeckledJim said:
You can't encourage faith. Faith either 'is' or 'isn't'.
Anyone who hears someone, however authoritative, say 'have faith' who then decides to have faith, is going to miss the mark.
You can't consciously opt-in for a belief. It just happens, or just doesn't.
I'd disagree with that, on the grounds upbringing plays a huge part in belief. Children raised in a religious household are not making a choice, they're just assuming said faith is normal as that's their day to day experience growing up. Fair enough if people go to a belief as an adult, but I'd suggest a great many people believe what they believe for no other reason than it's wired into them as children.Anyone who hears someone, however authoritative, say 'have faith' who then decides to have faith, is going to miss the mark.
You can't consciously opt-in for a belief. It just happens, or just doesn't.
k off. That's exactly what Welby's doing. If teaching religion was restricted to the over-12s, it'd be gone in this country in 3 generations. They rely totally on bullstting the credulous juvenile.5 minutes considering the motivations behind 'baptism' make that utterly, shamelessly, obvious.
Eric Mc said:
TheHeretic said:
Eric Mc said:
He's quite right though, isn't he.
No, he isn't. Society can change, and improve without God."The Archbishop of Canterbury has launched an attack on society's belief that things can improve through change without God, in his first Easter message.
The Most Rev Justin Welby warned against 'vain human optimism' in change as it would lead to cynicism, and only joyfulness through faith in God would lead to 'radical expectation in the future'."
I haven't actually read his full 'sermon' so no idea if the article is accurate as to what he actually said.
The changes that have improved lives have been secular in the main, or at least not coming from the church. Whilst many of those whose inventions and ideas have changed our lives for the better have come from those who professed religious beliefs, the fact is that there was no real option for them. Further, many improvements in our lives have not only come from outside the church but have been contrary to its teachings.
Whilst there might well be vanity in the belief that we can improve things, it is nothing in comparison to the belief that there is only one church (common to most sects of the christian faith) and that it is the one that they were, in the main, born into.
I accept that I might be wrong in my beliefs. Indeed, if any religion could come up with proof I think I would change my mind, but the vanity to suggest that you are right because of a belief without proof is monumental. Not only that, but to limit the ability of people to fulfill their potential because of their sex or their sexuality is conceit of a greater extent.
Derek Smith said:
Eric Mc said:
TheHeretic said:
Eric Mc said:
He's quite right though, isn't he.
No, he isn't. Society can change, and improve without God."The Archbishop of Canterbury has launched an attack on society's belief that things can improve through change without God, in his first Easter message.
The Most Rev Justin Welby warned against 'vain human optimism' in change as it would lead to cynicism, and only joyfulness through faith in God would lead to 'radical expectation in the future'."
I haven't actually read his full 'sermon' so no idea if the article is accurate as to what he actually said.
The changes that have improved lives have been secular in the main, or at least not coming from the church. Whilst many of those whose inventions and ideas have changed our lives for the better have come from those who professed religious beliefs, the fact is that there was no real option for them. Further, many improvements in our lives have not only come from outside the church but have been contrary to its teachings.
Whilst there might well be vanity in the belief that we can improve things, it is nothing in comparison to the belief that there is only one church (common to most sects of the christian faith) and that it is the one that they were, in the main, born into.
I accept that I might be wrong in my beliefs. Indeed, if any religion could come up with proof I think I would change my mind, but the vanity to suggest that you are right because of a belief without proof is monumental. Not only that, but to limit the ability of people to fulfill their potential because of their sex or their sexuality is conceit of a greater extent.
At every turn, the church warns against whatever the latest positive change may be.
At the moment, amongst other things, it's stem cells. And we all suffer a delay in progress as a result.
SpeckledJim said:
The improvements haven't just been outside of the church - they've been in spite of the church.
At every turn, the church warns against whatever the latest positive change may be.
At the moment, amongst other things, it's stem cells. And we all suffer a delay in progress as a result.
Yes has always been that way. One really bright person was forced to repent and placed under house arrest for the rest of his life, you may have heard of him. for daring to say that the earth went around the sun Burn the heretic!!!!At every turn, the church warns against whatever the latest positive change may be.
At the moment, amongst other things, it's stem cells. And we all suffer a delay in progress as a result.
Eric Mc said:
And yet, and yet....
Many children brought up in very religious households still manage to make their own minds up on what they want to believe...
I'm sure they do, but my point was they had no say in their "faith" from the outset, which was the original point being made. ETA - or not. I'm confused now!Many children brought up in very religious households still manage to make their own minds up on what they want to believe...
Edited by hornet on Monday 1st April 21:08
im said:
Taking on the issues of the present he said that a sense that hero leaders could bring about improvement showed people had failed to learn the lessons of the Easter story.
Sounds like he has a very good point there. I mean how did the " hero leader" of the Easter story bring about improvement?That is the lesson he means right?
colonel c said:
im said:
colonel c said:
im said:
Er....
21st Century calling the Bish....SpeckledJim said:
The improvements haven't just been outside of the church - they've been in spite of the church.
At every turn, the church warns against whatever the latest positive change may be.
At the moment, amongst other things, it's stem cells. And we all suffer a delay in progress as a result.
I was going to say that but then I thought of antibiotics, something most of the various church sects were quiet on. Mind you, there are some faiths that condemned them as anti-god, along with vaccination. At every turn, the church warns against whatever the latest positive change may be.
At the moment, amongst other things, it's stem cells. And we all suffer a delay in progress as a result.
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