Bitcoin sell-off

[technodup]

All that jazz said:

Genuinely not sure if serious or trolling ... ?

Serious.

I know fk all about it other than a basic layman. What I have seen is big fluctuations in Bitcoin and a current value over £300. It must have started at zero as well.

Given there are loads of copycats now, are they always going to struggle in the face of the market leader or do start-ups have a chance, and if so what affects their potential rise in value?

The way I'd see it is if it's the cost of a good night out what harm can it do? And if the value goes to even £1 I've made a load of money, no?

I don't want 'involved', I certainly wouldn't throw a lot of money at it but for the price of a pair of shoes doesn't seem the worst idea I've ever had (or had presented to me!).

[bloomen]

What's it called then?

Bitcoin alternatives are even more speculative than Bitcoin itself and that's really saying something.

As the markets are totally unregulated most of them are pumped by organised groups who then do a runner and the coin collapses, never to recover. This happens over and over again. There's no rhyme or reason and no fundamentals.

Loads of them promise the Earth. In reality almost all of them have precisely zero real world usage.

[All that jazz]

technodup said:

All that jazz said:

Genuinely not sure if serious or trolling ... ?

Serious.

I know fk all about it other than a basic layman. What I have seen is big fluctuations in Bitcoin and a current value over £300. It must have started at zero as well.

Given there are loads of copycats now, are they always going to struggle in the face of the market leader or do start-ups have a chance, and if so what affects their potential rise in value?

The way I'd see it is if it's the cost of a good night out what harm can it do? And if the value goes to even £1 I've made a load of money, no?

I don't want 'involved', I certainly wouldn't throw a lot of money at it but for the price of a pair of shoes doesn't seem the worst idea I've ever had (or had presented to me!).

Come on, really? You're prepared to throw "a couple of hundred" at some unheard of crypto currency because some equally unheard of random bloke tells you it's a great opportunity. Just get your money and chuck it in the nearest fire - it would be much less hassle but ultimately have the same end result.

[technodup]

All that jazz said:

Come on, really? You're prepared to throw "a couple of hundred" at some unheard of crypto currency because some equally unheard of random bloke tells you it's a great opportunity.

Bitcoin must have been unheard of at the beginning, but plenty have made money in it (and probably lost too) even though many still haven't heard of it.

I get approached all the time with various 'opportunities'. I make a point of listening to the pitch to see what I can learn, good or bad, and then knock it back. For some reason this one has caught me a bit more than usual. Maybe it's 5000/1 Leicester warping my brain.

I'll track it for a while and see if it moves.

[TheExcession]

technodup said:

itcoin must have been unheard of at the beginning, but plenty have made money in it (and probably lost too) even though many still haven't heard of it.

I get approached all the time with various 'opportunities'. I make a point of listening to the pitch to see what I can learn, good or bad, and then knock it back. For some reason this one has caught me a bit more than usual. Maybe it's 5000/1 Leicester warping my brain.

I'll track it for a while and see if it moves.

Read about MaxCoin, DogeCoin etc and see how you feel.

https://coinmarketcap.com/.

Ask your self how the one you are interested in going to stand out from the others in the link above.

You might be better putting your money on the No3 horse in the 4:15 at Haydock next week.

[technodup]

bloomen said:

Google search your man's currency on bitcointalk.org. If there isn't a thread on there about it then that's an even worse sign.

There are a few threads on there (Scotcoin).

I'm not a gambler, but there's something about the idea of a patriotic currency that might appeal to the masses, given the current SNP/independence situation. At least one SNP MP (and economist) has been pushing for something similar, and word was more would be jumping onboard.

The entire IndyRef was centred on currency, or lack of. Half our population think Sturgeon pisses champagne, if she started pushing a Scottish/anti £ cryptocurrency... no?

[limpsfield]

technodup said:

here are a few threads on there (Scotcoin).

The entire IndyRef was centred on currency, or lack of. Half our population think Sturgeon pisses champagne, if she started pushing a Scottish/anti £ cryptocurrency... no?

I would love to watch this unfold. I think there are a few members of the Greek finance department at a loose end at the moment who could act as special advisers.

[TheExcession]

technodup said:

no

Very much this. Go look through the graphs in the link I posted above.

If you want a flutter then away you go, but you should expect to lose the lot.

[bloomen]

technodup said:

here are a few threads on there (Scotcoin).

I'm not a gambler, but there's something about the idea of a patriotic currency that might appeal to the masses, given the current SNP/independence situation.

There was a phase a couple of years ago where every country had its own coin. I think they were all launched by the same people too. None of them went anywhere. I myself managed to turn £50 into 20p when I was away for a weekend on one of them and it stayed down there too.

One of the many things to look out for in cryptoland is the phrase premine. That means the creators hold back vast amounts and only release a trickle for sale thus massively increasing the price. Then they dump the rest and run.

The original Scotcoin was one of these. This iteration doesn't look so different.

That's not to say there isn't money to be made but you have to run in and out at the right moment.

And don't think for one second that it'll ever get anywhere near the wider public. Very, very few are inclined to trust Bitcoin which is the daddy of them all and can actually be used, let alone something unknown with a bit of branding glued on top.

If there ever is to be an official Scottish crypto then the last thing they'll permit is something that can be speculated on by some Chinese brats. It'll be pegged to a fiat currency of some sort from the off. You can't exactly deliver grandma's pension in a currency that gains and loses 1000% a week.

If you really want to take a bet then spread that money between a bunch of coins with fairer distribution and some possible actual future usage.

That means projects like Ethereum, NEM and a few others. They're just as vulnerable to pump and dumps, Ethereum might be coming down from a giant bubble right now, but at least there is something slightly approaching a possible fundamental.

[technodup]

Ok, ok, I think I'll throw my £200 at some shoes instead.

It was just a punt, nothing more. But I'll hold off and probably forget all about it. But if next year Scotcoin is hitting the papers because it's broken £100 I'll be back.

[bloomen]

Anything's possible. Buy some £150 shoes instead?

[hornet]

technodup said:

Ok, ok, I think I'll throw my £200 at some shoes instead.

It was just a punt, nothing more. But I'll hold off and probably forget all about it. But if next year Scotcoin is hitting the papers because it's broken £100 I'll be back.

Scotcoin has been around for a while now, but doesn't seem to have gained traction of any sort. I think I'm correct in saying it's now on the Counterparty platform, so is more of a digital asset/token than a currency. Counterparty has some interesting things on it, but there's also a tonne of fluff and outright scams.

In terms of airdropped "national" cryptocurrencies, have a look at the history of Auroracoin. That was an Icelandic project with very similar objectives.

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/auroracoin/

None of these "national" assets / tokens have much use without some form of official support. I can sort of see a case for using digital tokens to properly track funds moving around Government and/or reduce transmission costs, and can certainly see where distributed ledgers would help, but unless Joe McPublic has a way to actually spend his Scotcoin, it's likely to fizzle out in much the same way as AUR.

I have small amounts of BTC and ETH, but beyond that, I can't see anything else. There's Monero and Dash for the truly privacy concerned, but the uptake is tiny.

[tertius]

The concept of a "national" crypto-currency is utterly bizarre - one of the tenets of the Bitcoin movement is that it is without borders.

[hornet]

tertius said:

The concept of a "national" crypto-currency is utterly bizarre - one of the tenets of the Bitcoin movement is that it is without borders.

I'd interpret it as simply a digital evolution of concepts such as the Bristol or Brixton pound, although I believe both of those already have e-payment systems using SMS. Possibly cheaper to operate or administer a local parallel currency on a distributed ledger, but I suspect ease of use for consumers would drop considerably.

I can see a future for distribued ledgers and tokens, but perhaps away from pure currency, so less philosophically similar to Bitcoin. One idea would perhaps be for local businesses to run nodes on a distributed permissioned ledger that replaced (or at least helped offset) centralised computing overhead. You have things like MAIDSAFE and STORJ offering rewards for donating your computing resource, so I could see that sort of model being looked at as a way to lower overheads. Off the top of my head, you could receive tokens on the basis of resource offered (similar to the Folding Coin project), which could then be used to receive discounts on local authority services - business rates, parking or whatever. I think that's coming, but not any time soon. I can also see smart contracts becoming more and more useful. Tracking and releasing funds across institutions is a good example. Contract is set up to release X funds to Y address once digitally signed by Y individuals. Everything is transparent, so there's an audit trail at all stages. Insurance claims handling has been suggested as an area for that sort of system. At the risk of blowing the PH dog whistle, imagine a set of multisig smart contracts tracking allocation of EU funding...

There's also Hullcoin, which is interesting in its own way, but has not been without issue.