Owen Jones v the Princes; who has served the country most?

Owen Jones v the Princes; who has served the country most?

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Discussion

eccles

13,720 posts

221 months

Tuesday 23rd April 2013
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AnonSpoilSport said:
rohrl said:
If no one wanted to read what Owen Jones writes or hear what he says then he'd be out of a job fairly quickly.

Why all this envy at someone making a successful living?
Envy? Why is despising a propagandising agit-prop who comes out with unfair accusations (as per the quote) and deceitful, disingenuous descriptions of things he disagrees with that the govt. does - or he assumes they will - e.g. railing against the tax that isn't symptomatic of envy?

I realise that you are one of the more well known/regular defenders of all things socialist on PH but some of us might actually disagree that his speaking his mind, and being given a platform disproportionate to his actual position as a part time freelancing hack and self-styled thinker (re. the number of times the BBC for example give scope for his views) is a 'contribution' to the country.

I see his skewing of facts, his pushing of untruths and 'bad' policy ideas alike (he's the sort who would run the country even further into debt at the drop of a hat) and his ability to influence potential voters - including the unthinking sheep who follow his comments, including the downright lies, spin and nonsense - as a likely negative. Definitely not a contribution. Whether you agree with my views on him and his impact or not, that has nothing to do with envy.
So he basically behaves like most politicians. They all push untruths and spin facts to suit themselves. Many have columns in weekly newspapers in which they push their propaganda.
Why single this one out.

AnonSpoilSport

Original Poster:

12,955 posts

175 months

Tuesday 23rd April 2013
quotequote all
/\

He isn't an elected politician.

longblackcoat

5,047 posts

182 months

Tuesday 23rd April 2013
quotequote all
AnonSpoilSport said:
rohrl said:
If no one wanted to read what Owen Jones writes or hear what he says then he'd be out of a job fairly quickly.

Why all this envy at someone making a successful living?
Envy? Why is despising a propagandising agit-prop who comes out with unfair accusations (as per the quote) and deceitful, disingenuous descriptions of things he disagrees with that the govt. does - or he assumes they will - e.g. railing against the tax that isn't symptomatic of envy?

I realise that you are one of the more well known/regular defenders of all things socialist on PH but some of us might actually disagree that his speaking his mind, and being given a platform disproportionate to his actual position as a part time freelancing hack and self-styled thinker (re. the number of times the BBC for example give scope for his views) is a 'contribution' to the country.

I see his skewing of facts, his pushing of untruths and 'bad' policy ideas alike (he's the sort who would run the country even further into debt at the drop of a hat) and his ability to influence potential voters - including the unthinking sheep who follow his comments, including the downright lies, spin and nonsense - as a likely negative. Definitely not a contribution. Whether you agree with my views on him and his impact or not, that has nothing to do with envy.
I don't know who Owen Jones is (and could care less) but it's entirely true to say that the amount of money spent on training pilots is staggering. And if someone joins the services, gets fully trained up and then dips out early, it's fair to say that the country's not got full use of that investment.

That's not a socialist sentiment, just common sense.

eccles

13,720 posts

221 months

Tuesday 23rd April 2013
quotequote all
AnonSpoilSport said:
/\

He isn't an elected politician.
So ?

He's a bloke who makes a living out of pedalling his views and opinions, feel free to ignore him.


AnonSpoilSport

Original Poster:

12,955 posts

175 months

Tuesday 23rd April 2013
quotequote all
/\

The article related to William. Jones jumped in by suggesting Harry contributes nothing - in fact makes a negative contribution if 'doing nothing' would serve us better, as Jones called for. Not my idea of sense.

eccles

13,720 posts

221 months

Tuesday 23rd April 2013
quotequote all
AnonSpoilSport said:
/\

The article related to William. Jones jumped in by suggesting Harry contributes nothing - in fact makes a negative contribution if 'doing nothing' would serve us better, as Jones called for. Not my idea of sense.
Whoopydoo! Proffesional gobste has an opinion. So what?

rohrl

8,712 posts

144 months

Tuesday 23rd April 2013
quotequote all
A.S.S. - I only posted that envy thing because it's the stock response on PH.

Jones does operate in a free market though which is stuffed to the gunwhales with opinion of all shades. If you don't agree with him there will be another columnist along in a minute. Personally there are lots of columnists I never agree with and lots who I sometimes agree with. Sometimes I learn something from all of them and I find it a valuable exercise to read some I don't agree with for a different perspective.

bigbubba

1,005 posts

218 months

Tuesday 23rd April 2013
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Mobile Chicane said:
Have any of the UK royals ever had successful business careers?

I think not.

Kate, etc supposedly make millions from selling paper plates and tat.

Again, I think not.

Successful then, no?

AJS-

15,366 posts

235 months

Wednesday 24th April 2013
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AnonSpoilSport said:
AJS- said:
Sorry but this royal sycophancy is just ridiculous.

What's Owen Jones ever done? Well for one thing he actually makes a living mostly from the private sector so comparing his grasp on reality with Prince Harry is a bit of a non-starter. He's managed to build up a readership who presumably largely agree with his outlook without happening to be the son of a future hereditary head of state, which takes something.

And while it might be brave and admirable of Prince Harry to go running around Afghanistan getting shot at, it doesn't really help me any more than being a left wing columnist and broadcaster, and arguably less if you value the political and social dialogue of the country.

You might disagree with nearly all his opinions, and I do, but you don't need to make yourself sound like an idiot in doing so.
Comparing his grasp of reality with Prince Harry (or indeed William, who the original article related to, not that Jones noticed)? when did that come into the argument? If you read the comments/article that stimulated the initial post you might spot that the issue was nothing of thre sort. It, the post, was about the relative contribution they have made and his gall in daring suggest Prince Harry would best serve the country by doing nothing. When, to my mind he's done a damn site more than Jones and made greater sacrifices/taken far more risk in doing so. If you think Jones has contributed anything of actual worth to the country I'm amazed. And given it is you, that takes a lot...

I'm sure the service men fighting in Afghanistan and elsewhere will be touched by your seeming lack of gratitude (rather different to sycophancy by the way) and respect and appreciative of how you think a semi-detached Trotskyist peddling his views - lies and distortions alike - is of more value to the country. Idiotic? Were you typing into the virtual mirror?
The first response was this

M3333 said:
He is just a snivelling little st who if ever thrusted into the realities of life would fall straight on his arse.
The link in the OP just links to a Facebook page, so not sure about the original article. If anyone has a link to the actual article I'll have a look.

The sycophancy that is the subject of my ire is not towards the forces as a whole, but the royal family. Despite my thinking that the whole escapade in Iraq and Afghanistan is utterly futile, I have some admiration for those who put themselves on the front line, Harry included. Really I have more sympathy though, which is neither sycophancy or respect. They're largely working class lads with little education, packed off half way around the world for a pointless military exercise.

However I was more baffled still by the ludicrous question of who has contributed more to British life - a left wing columnist or a soldier with royal blood. Or a royal who went to war, if you prefer.

crankedup

25,764 posts

242 months

Wednesday 24th April 2013
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More tiresome bashing of left wing POV, almost up to the standard of my previous 'banker bashing' smile

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 24th April 2013
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crankedup said:
More tiresome bashing of left wing POV, almost up to the standard of my previous 'banker bashing' smile
With Thatcher's recent funeral, PH right wingism is at the highest it's been in years.

Question anything about Maggie/The royals and you're a lefty or a socialist spouting jealous bile. If you don't run a successful business or have fought in Afghanistan you're simply not allowed to comment on anything. hehe

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 24th April 2013
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AnonSpoilSport said:
I realise that you are one of the more well known/regular defenders of all things socialist on PH
Good work outing him!

Yes, he's easy to identify because nobody with a slightly left of Thatcher point of view dares to speak up or they too might get "realised". hehe


toppstuff

13,698 posts

246 months

Wednesday 24th April 2013
quotequote all
I stumbled across Owen Jones on the TV recently, giving an interview on the lunchtime news somewhere.

He is intelligent and very articulate. He is clearly an experienced University debater and possessed of strong opinions and good communication skills to express them.

He is also, however, precisely the kind of "talking head" on the TV that I loathe and detest.

I ended up swearing at the TV and wanting to throw something.

Why?

Not because of his politics. It is not that he is a leftie, or if I agreed with him or not.

Not because of his personality. He is confident and articulate.

I dislike him for the simple reason that he articulates opinions that are nothing more than intellectual masturbation for him. Everything is about theory, ideas and attitudes.

His views have no basis on the realities of life , because he has never lived a real life. He has never held down a job he hates for years on end. He has never paid half his pay away in taxes. He has never run a business. Never been in debt. Never apparently had the st that life can come up with, thrown at him.

He sums up everything I hate about modern politicians.

He is an articulate young man with worthless opinions. He'll do well.

oyster

12,577 posts

247 months

Wednesday 24th April 2013
quotequote all
toppstuff said:
I stumbled across Owen Jones on the TV recently, giving an interview on the lunchtime news somewhere.

He is intelligent and very articulate. He is clearly an experienced University debater and possessed of strong opinions and good communication skills to express them.

He is also, however, precisely the kind of "talking head" on the TV that I loathe and detest.

I ended up swearing at the TV and wanting to throw something.

Why?

Not because of his politics. It is not that he is a leftie, or if I agreed with him or not.

Not because of his personality. He is confident and articulate.

I dislike him for the simple reason that he articulates opinions that are nothing more than intellectual masturbation for him. Everything is about theory, ideas and attitudes.

His views have no basis on the realities of life , because he has never lived a real life. He has never held down a job he hates for years on end. He has never paid half his pay away in taxes. He has never run a business. Never been in debt. Never apparently had the st that life can come up with, thrown at him.

He sums up everything I hate about modern politicians.

He is an articulate young man with worthless opinions. He'll do well.
Remind me what business MT ran? Or when she was in debt?
She first ran for parliament at the age of 25, so she was a career politician if ever there was one.

Your expressing a desire for a type of politician that has never really existed.

toppstuff

13,698 posts

246 months

Wednesday 24th April 2013
quotequote all
oyster said:
Remind me what business MT ran? Or when she was in debt?
She first ran for parliament at the age of 25, so she was a career politician if ever there was one.

Your expressing a desire for a type of politician that has never really existed.
Who mentioned MT? What are you on about?

Owen Jones struck me as a gifted communicator. He also struck me as an odious little twerp. And I would feel that way regardless of his politics.

Does not liking him or valuing his opinions therefore mean I must be a Tory? How does that work?

thismonkeyhere

10,296 posts

230 months

Wednesday 24th April 2013
quotequote all
oyster said:
Your expressing a desire for a type of politician that has never really existed.
nono

There have been many politicians who made their way in life before entering the world of politics.

Ashdown and Marples spring to mind, but there have been many more.

Much rarer now than it used to be, is the point I think.

unrepentant

21,212 posts

255 months

Wednesday 24th April 2013
quotequote all
thismonkeyhere said:
oyster said:
Your expressing a desire for a type of politician that has never really existed.
nono

There have been many politicians who made their way in life before entering the world of politics.

Ashdown and Marples spring to mind, but there have been many more.

Much rarer now than it used to be, is the point I think.
Tebbit was an airline pilot and Cecil Parkinson was a manager in business and ran his own company for a while. Both were born into working class families as well. A lot of Thatcher era politicians were successfully something else before becoming politicians (Young, Boyson, Nott, Hurd, Heseltine etc..). Before WW2 it used to be the norm for people to make a mark in the world and then go into politics to give something back.

Today's lot tend to come up through the party as "researchers". Certainly true of the Millibeans, CMD and the idiot Gideon.

BlackLabel

13,251 posts

122 months

Sunday 19th October 2014
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Owen Jones has a new book out.



But it turns out some of his research and 'facts' presented in the book have been exposed as being extremely inaccurate.

http://order-order.com/2014/10/16/owen-jones-admit...

http://www.jeremy-duns.com/blog/2014/10/18/owen-jo...

Pesty

42,655 posts

255 months

Sunday 19th October 2014
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XCP said:
Pesty said:
There is one who makes and sells very nice furniture to the very rich.
You think he makes any of it?

rofl
Wow blast from the past.
Probably not but he runs the company and I believe it is or was successful.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Sunday 19th October 2014
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"Our generation's Orwell" Russell Brand.

Brand doesn't half talk some bks, but he's excelled himself there. I can't decide whether it's more cringeworthy that he said it or that Owen so liked having smoke blown up his arse that he allowed it to be printed on his book. If that's his generation's Orwell, his generation is pathetic.