Abortion - time for a new debate?

[ALawson]

/\ interesting, consultant advised us that 450g is normally the cut off when a fetus will or won't make it.

[Bibbs]

The problem is the bible says you don't have a soul till you start breathing.

Gen 2:7
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

So the religious have no say before the doctor slaps the baby.

And it gets worse :-

Leviticus 27:6 - The Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old.

Numbers 3:15-16 - Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.




I think it should be allowed until the baby is able to survive by itself. So legal until it can go to the shops, buy a pot noodle and work a kettle.

[McWigglebum4th]

Bibbs said:

I think it should be allowed until the baby is able to survive by itself. So legal until it can go to the shops, buy a pot noodle and work a kettle.

Mmmmm

That would solve quiet a few problems


I've got a list if it helps

[daveydave7]

Abortion is a multi million pound business and one that is now so entrenched in society it will never go away. If you ever question it you are labelled a reactionary or a bigot.
It now carries little stigma and many people will know people who have had more than one.

[ADM06]

daveydave7 said:

Abortion is a multi million pound business and one that is now so entrenched in society it will never go away. If you ever question it you are labelled a reactionary or a bigot.
It now carries little stigma and many people will know people who have had more than one.

I've got to say that's rubbish. Teenage girl gets pregnant, has the kid, gets free house and money. Father is harassed by CSA for the rest of his life.
I'd say abortion is so taboo people don't even mention it as a possibility.

[Bill]

Interesting argument. "Abortion is big business", it rather ignores how much child birth etc costs.

And the name calling goes both ways.

[Blue Cat]

daveydave7 said:

Abortion is a multi million pound business and one that is now so entrenched in society it will never go away. If you ever question it you are labelled a reactionary or a bigot.
It now carries little stigma and many people will know people who have had more than one.

I am sorry but I don't agree - in the real world, the not tabloid/Daily Mail world very few women will openly admit that they have had an abortion other than to close friends.

When women talk about abortion you will notice that they never say "I has an abortion and I think........" it's always "a friend had an abortion and ................." Even on this thread has anyone said "my wife/gf had an abortion and ........."

There is even a thread running at the moment about people having kids and no one on there has admitted to aborting a child

There is still a lot stigma about this issue

[daveydave7]

Blue Cat said:

I am sorry but I don't agree - in the real world, the not tabloid/Daily Mail world very few women will openly admit that they have had an abortion other than to close friends.

When women talk about abortion you will notice that they never say "I has an abortion and I think........" it's always "a friend had an abortion and ................." Even on this thread has anyone said "my wife/gf had an abortion and ........."

There is even a thread running at the moment about people having kids and no one on there has admitted to aborting a child

There is still a lot stigma about this issue

Thank you for your politeness I base my comments on past experience of managing a large sales staff (predominantly women) it is interesting what women did talk about/ admit to each other (it was at times impossible NOT to hear what they were gossiping about seeing as how my office was directly next to the playground aka yard where they all seemed to smoke.
Anyway people will have their own opinions, every other year it seems we have the issue of pre full term survival versus late term abortion. I think it is still (hopefully) a very very small amount of women who undergo late term ones, least I hope it is.
Me I'm too soft and it seems too out of touch with modern thinking these days

[MrBrightSi]

We should push abortion more and contraception. People breeding out of control is whats causing a lot of the problems right now.

We should be pushing social responsibility of everyone involved rather than mollycoddling them and saying "oh its ok, your vermin children who will cost the average tax payer a lot of money and stress are ok!"

[deadtom]

dundarach said:

When a human CHOOSES to kill another human its murder...

I get the idea that you are the sort of person who would say 'well evolution/gravity/electromagnetism is ONLY a theory, it hasn't been proven'?

that's you isn't it?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

I wonder when the anti brigade will finally realise that calling abortion murder doesn't help their case, it hinders it.

Because everyone with 2 braincells to rub together knows it's not murder and so just rolls their eyes at the stupidity of the person making the comment and ignores everything else they say, some of which might actually be worth listening to.

Murder is unlawful killing. And abortion is lawful. It's no more murder than our guys in Afghanistan killing members of the Taliban in a fire fight.

Of course people are entitled to hold the view that the law should be changed to make it murder. That's a debate that rational people can have. But by calling it murder now, you're excluding yourself from that club.

[The Don of Croy]

MrBrightSi said:

We should push abortion more and contraception. People breeding out of control is whats causing a lot of the problems right now.

We should be pushing social responsibility of everyone involved rather than mollycoddling them and saying "oh its ok, your vermin children who will cost the average tax payer a lot of money and stress are ok!"

I would point you in the direction of the fillum 'Idocracy' - a timely and thoughtful treatise on modern breeding outcomes.

A prosperous and sustainable society needs to reproduce. Which people, now that is a vexatious issue...

[Ozzie Osmond]

deadtom said:

the sort of person who would say 'well evolution/gravity/electromagnetism is ONLY a theory, it hasn't been proven'?

You can catch them by asking whether the sun is going to rise tomorrow morning.

When they say "yes", ask them to prove it!

[IainT]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Ozzie Osmond said:

The debate is simply about where that cut-off should be.

But it never is. Because those who advance the agenda for reducing the cut off point (David Alton, Anne Widdicome and others) are invariably catholics who see reducing the cut off point as the first step in their religious crusade.

If you could exclude these loons form the debate, then sensible discussion could ensue.

Don't forget that Dorries idiot.

MinistryOfTruth (http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/) has a lot of well researched pieces covering abortion and is particularly good at making a comfit from the Canards raised by the 'pro life' idiots. Their lies regarding viability and 'cut off dates' are particularly insulting to anyone with a modicum of education and time to research facts.

[MrBrightSi]

The Don of Croy said:

I would point you in the direction of the fillum 'Idocracy' - a timely and thoughtful treatise on modern breeding outcomes.

A prosperous and sustainable society needs to reproduce. Which people, now that is a vexatious issue...

I've seen bits of it, my brother pointed me in it's direction, i liked the creators other stuff too.

It's this film that sort of embodies my distaste towards modern man.

Then again i suppose we look back at great figures of history and they're only a hand full of people in a sea of (probably) equal morons.

It is strange that we're still so Luddite in an era of such great technology.

I still think we should spay a lot of people. Most with a spade.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

IainT said:

Don't forget that Dorries idiot.

I had forgotten about her. Until you bloody ruined it by reminding me.

[IainT]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

IainT said:

Don't forget that Dorries idiot.

I had forgotten about her. Until you bloody ruined it by reminding me.

Sorry!