Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]
Discussion
Digga said:
In one regard, it is perhaps good and correct that what is allowed for a top-tier EU member, France, is also being allowed for PIIGS. on the other hand, where does it leave the fiscal probity of the Euro zone?
It's not often you see 'fiscal probity' and 'euro zone' in the same sentence!rovermorris999 said:
Digga said:
In one regard, it is perhaps good and correct that what is allowed for a top-tier EU member, France, is also being allowed for PIIGS. on the other hand, where does it leave the fiscal probity of the Euro zone?
It's not often you see 'fiscal probity' and 'euro zone' in the same sentence!Was on holiday in Southern France last week and popped over to Turin and saw the North south Euro divide illustrated in simple terms.
France was expensive, well kept and , well expensive.
Italy was very much more "down at heel" and had the aura of a country in decline. A couple of years ago I was in Rome and noticed how many people were dodging paying their fares in the metro and how lax fare payment enforcement appeared.
I was in Turin last week and on the trams, no one, I mean no one paid. Apart from me as I made it a point of principal.
The trams were packed, no guards, no enforcecemnt, only one validation machine per tram and thus no one could endore their non existent ticket if they wanted.
It appears that the Italian government have simply decided that they will provide free public transport for the masses in their large cities via the back door.
Can you see this happening in Germany or Holland?
This cultural difference between North and South is a microcosm of why the Euro won't work and cannot last.
How long will tram, metro and bus travellers in the north of Europe pay for their Italian compatriots to travel for free? And why should they?
Cheers,
Tony
France was expensive, well kept and , well expensive.
Italy was very much more "down at heel" and had the aura of a country in decline. A couple of years ago I was in Rome and noticed how many people were dodging paying their fares in the metro and how lax fare payment enforcement appeared.
I was in Turin last week and on the trams, no one, I mean no one paid. Apart from me as I made it a point of principal.
The trams were packed, no guards, no enforcecemnt, only one validation machine per tram and thus no one could endore their non existent ticket if they wanted.
It appears that the Italian government have simply decided that they will provide free public transport for the masses in their large cities via the back door.
Can you see this happening in Germany or Holland?
This cultural difference between North and South is a microcosm of why the Euro won't work and cannot last.
How long will tram, metro and bus travellers in the north of Europe pay for their Italian compatriots to travel for free? And why should they?
Cheers,
Tony
Tony427 said:
Was on holiday in Southern France last week and popped over to Turin and saw the North south Euro divide illustrated in simple terms.
France was expensive, well kept and , well expensive.
Italy was very much more "down at heel" and had the aura of a country in decline. A couple of years ago I was in Rome and noticed how many people were dodging paying their fares in the metro and how lax fare payment enforcement appeared.
I was in Turin last week and on the trams, no one, I mean no one paid. Apart from me as I made it a point of principal.
The trams were packed, no guards, no enforcecemnt, only one validation machine per tram and thus no one could endore their non existent ticket if they wanted.
It appears that the Italian government have simply decided that they will provide free public transport for the masses in their large cities via the back door.
Can you see this happening in Germany or Holland?
This cultural difference between North and South is a microcosm of why the Euro won't work and cannot last.
How long will tram, metro and bus travellers in the north of Europe pay for their Italian compatriots to travel for free? And why should they?
Cheers,
Tony
That may not be the case. I worked in Turin for three years, and lived 50 miles away. Commuting by car was costing me around 500 Euros per month in fuel and toll charges. However, by train it was less than 100 Euros per month. Each month, I bought my train/travel pass (had to have your photo on it). Included with this pass was free access to trams and buses once I reached Turin.France was expensive, well kept and , well expensive.
Italy was very much more "down at heel" and had the aura of a country in decline. A couple of years ago I was in Rome and noticed how many people were dodging paying their fares in the metro and how lax fare payment enforcement appeared.
I was in Turin last week and on the trams, no one, I mean no one paid. Apart from me as I made it a point of principal.
The trams were packed, no guards, no enforcecemnt, only one validation machine per tram and thus no one could endore their non existent ticket if they wanted.
It appears that the Italian government have simply decided that they will provide free public transport for the masses in their large cities via the back door.
Can you see this happening in Germany or Holland?
This cultural difference between North and South is a microcosm of why the Euro won't work and cannot last.
How long will tram, metro and bus travellers in the north of Europe pay for their Italian compatriots to travel for free? And why should they?
Cheers,
Tony
Perhaps that was why you thought no-one was paying.
Worth five minutes of your time for a quick analysis of where the economy of Italy is currently sitting, (waiting outside the high dependency unit), where it has been since the Euro was adopted (hell and back) and where it is heading (nowhere fast except its own fundament).
Briefly too, a look at Italian banks and the (hilarious if it wasn't true) confusion over what officially constitutes a "bad loan"...
https://notayesmanseconomics.wordpress.com/2016/08...
Briefly too, a look at Italian banks and the (hilarious if it wasn't true) confusion over what officially constitutes a "bad loan"...
https://notayesmanseconomics.wordpress.com/2016/08...
chris watton said:
Tony427 said:
Was on holiday in Southern France last week and popped over to Turin and saw the North south Euro divide illustrated in simple terms.
France was expensive, well kept and , well expensive.
Italy was very much more "down at heel" and had the aura of a country in decline. A couple of years ago I was in Rome and noticed how many people were dodging paying their fares in the metro and how lax fare payment enforcement appeared.
I was in Turin last week and on the trams, no one, I mean no one paid. Apart from me as I made it a point of principal.
The trams were packed, no guards, no enforcecemnt, only one validation machine per tram and thus no one could endore their non existent ticket if they wanted.
It appears that the Italian government have simply decided that they will provide free public transport for the masses in their large cities via the back door.
Can you see this happening in Germany or Holland?
This cultural difference between North and South is a microcosm of why the Euro won't work and cannot last.
How long will tram, metro and bus travellers in the north of Europe pay for their Italian compatriots to travel for free? And why should they?
Cheers,
Tony
That may not be the case. I worked in Turin for three years, and lived 50 miles away. Commuting by car was costing me around 500 Euros per month in fuel and toll charges. However, by train it was less than 100 Euros per month. Each month, I bought my train/travel pass (had to have your photo on it). Included with this pass was free access to trams and buses once I reached Turin.France was expensive, well kept and , well expensive.
Italy was very much more "down at heel" and had the aura of a country in decline. A couple of years ago I was in Rome and noticed how many people were dodging paying their fares in the metro and how lax fare payment enforcement appeared.
I was in Turin last week and on the trams, no one, I mean no one paid. Apart from me as I made it a point of principal.
The trams were packed, no guards, no enforcecemnt, only one validation machine per tram and thus no one could endore their non existent ticket if they wanted.
It appears that the Italian government have simply decided that they will provide free public transport for the masses in their large cities via the back door.
Can you see this happening in Germany or Holland?
This cultural difference between North and South is a microcosm of why the Euro won't work and cannot last.
How long will tram, metro and bus travellers in the north of Europe pay for their Italian compatriots to travel for free? And why should they?
Cheers,
Tony
Perhaps that was why you thought no-one was paying.
The trams also have an electronic "oyster card" type of operation which needs to be validated /logged onto once in the tram. Again no one I saw used this electronic validation system.
The very welcoming hotel manager sold us the tram tuckets when we asked how to get into Turin and was surprised when we didn't bring them back unused.
We were also approached by beggars on the trams so perhaps they also had a season ticket?
Actually, it could be I was somewhat coloured by the route we were on ( number 4 Tram ) , and on the more business orientated routes the clientele may well be season ticket holders like yourself. I also presume that the trains had a higher level of ticket policing at the platform/ station gates.
We still liked Turin though. Definitely worth a visit.
Chers,
Tony
Cheers,
Tony
Huntsman said:
Saw it. Some good points. Some not so, but generally more right than wrong IMO.Andy Zarse said:
Huntsman said:
Saw it. Some good points. Some not so, but generally more right than wrong IMO.Digga said:
Andy Zarse said:
Huntsman said:
Saw it. Some good points. Some not so, but generally more right than wrong IMO.Andy Zarse said:
Digga said:
Andy Zarse said:
Huntsman said:
Saw it. Some good points. Some not so, but generally more right than wrong IMO.To my mind it is becoming impossible for the EU to maintain the fraudulent QE supporting of Greece and at the sme time devise more and more fraudulent methods of hiding the truth of the consequences of the failing EU Banks in France and Italy and not forgetting Deutshebank which is also steadily failing. There are so many failing financial institutions within the EU that inevitably the crunch will come.
The EU leaders can maintain their rhetoric as much as they like. By the EU cannot (and has not!) actually create the growth needed within these failing ecnomies as the depressing financial statistics demonstrate so resoundingly. The Brexit decision has undoubtedy rung a number of bells within the EU electorate across Europe and the tide is turning against the EU. More and more concerns and doubts are visibly rising to the fore.
Matter of time I think. The reality of the complete nonsense at the centre of the EU is doubtedly beginning to dawn IMO. Changes are coming whether the self serving EU leaders want them or not!
Jockman said:
28 green bottles, hanging on the EU wall.Soon there will be 27.
A few more EZ bottles are swinging in the wind.
Portugal announce an agreement in principle to recapitalise state-owned bank Caixa Geral de Depositos according to Reuters
Apparently the EU have agreed this isn't state aid as it is 'on market terms'.
2.7bn Euros from the state, plus shares and bonds so they can say '2.7bn' and mean '5.1bn'.
Apparently the EU have agreed this isn't state aid as it is 'on market terms'.
2.7bn Euros from the state, plus shares and bonds so they can say '2.7bn' and mean '5.1bn'.
What if Germany left?
Leaving the € to devalue which might then ease and cure part of the problem. I'm sure Germany might well join a £ zone 2 very similar sized economies and leave the rest who have been piggy backing / ripping off the wealthier countries for its success.
Surely Germany no longer needs to appologise and feel needed to do so financially for the Wars?
Leaving the € to devalue which might then ease and cure part of the problem. I'm sure Germany might well join a £ zone 2 very similar sized economies and leave the rest who have been piggy backing / ripping off the wealthier countries for its success.
Surely Germany no longer needs to appologise and feel needed to do so financially for the Wars?
Welshbeef said:
What if Germany left?
Leaving the € to devalue which might then ease and cure part of the problem. I'm sure Germany might well join a £ zone 2 very similar sized economies and leave the rest who have been piggy backing / ripping off the wealthier countries for its success.
Surely Germany no longer needs to appologise and feel needed to do so financially for the Wars?
Germany is a precarious position. They are essentially backrolling the Med to keep their exports alive with a weak Euro.Leaving the € to devalue which might then ease and cure part of the problem. I'm sure Germany might well join a £ zone 2 very similar sized economies and leave the rest who have been piggy backing / ripping off the wealthier countries for its success.
Surely Germany no longer needs to appologise and feel needed to do so financially for the Wars?
Can you imagine how much a Deutschmark would be worth compared to the Euro? 2:1? 3:1?
They've also been pretty stupidly stubborn when it comes to infrastructure. Spending on it has been slashed, even at a point when people will pay them to borrow! They can invest in whatever they like and make money on the loan.
Art0ir said:
Germany is a precarious position. They are essentially backrolling the Med to keep their exports alive with a weak Euro.
Can you imagine how much a Deutschmark would be worth compared to the Euro? 2:1? 3:1?
They've also been pretty stupidly stubborn when it comes to infrastructure. Spending on it has been slashed, even at a point when people will pay them to borrow! They can invest in whatever they like and make money on the loan.
Debt is still debt and needs to be repaid. It's cumulative borrowing which mean generation of our children have to pay for our over excess (labour seem more than happy and think that is "fair" maybe a new kind of politics but it's ripping off your kids so you can have a sweeter setup. Can you imagine how much a Deutschmark would be worth compared to the Euro? 2:1? 3:1?
They've also been pretty stupidly stubborn when it comes to infrastructure. Spending on it has been slashed, even at a point when people will pay them to borrow! They can invest in whatever they like and make money on the loan.
Welshbeef said:
Art0ir said:
Germany is a precarious position. They are essentially backrolling the Med to keep their exports alive with a weak Euro.
Can you imagine how much a Deutschmark would be worth compared to the Euro? 2:1? 3:1?
They've also been pretty stupidly stubborn when it comes to infrastructure. Spending on it has been slashed, even at a point when people will pay them to borrow! They can invest in whatever they like and make money on the loan.
Debt is still debt and needs to be repaid. It's cumulative borrowing which mean generation of our children have to pay for our over excess (labour seem more than happy and think that is "fair" maybe a new kind of politics but it's ripping off your kids so you can have a sweeter setup. Can you imagine how much a Deutschmark would be worth compared to the Euro? 2:1? 3:1?
They've also been pretty stupidly stubborn when it comes to infrastructure. Spending on it has been slashed, even at a point when people will pay them to borrow! They can invest in whatever they like and make money on the loan.
The US has a similar problem. I think I read there are over 100 bridges in NY alone that are rated at "critical" in terms of structural stability.
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