Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]

Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]

Author
Discussion

Steffan

10,362 posts

227 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
jogon said:
DJRC said:
It is something I find highly aggravating amongst the Kippers Steffan that they cannot and wilfully refuse to see the positives of migration. The freedom of movement of people around Europe has had such a vast positive effect upon the social acceptance of the European community that it can only be by utter myopic fear and patheticness that such benefit cannot be seen. The instant and unclose ability to see that actually most of us ARE all the same has done more to foster a sense of peace upon and within Europe than anything and everything else combined. To lose this will be a calamity of colossal proportions and it should be fought for at all costs.

The rest of the crap of the EU should be jettisoned at all costs for it is destructive and unwanted by pretty much everybody of every nationality you care to meet in Europe.

How depressing that not a single party or it seems politician can even be bothered making the case for optimism these days. The closest we have to that ironically enough is Wee bloody Eck!
Do you think these people would have emigrated to the UK if their own economies had been performing better.
On the basis that DJRC can answer for himself when he wants to I will restrict my comments to the probability of the motivation of immigrants to the UK.

For all our faults as a society the UK is still a long way ahead of the emerging states in the world for education, employment, security, health, longevity and virtually every other form of standard. Language being the obvious one English, or more accurately American, has become the language of the Internet and the language most employment seeking immigrants want to learn. In consequence the performance or lack of it, in the indigenous economies of immigrants are not the essential concern because the primary reasons for immigration here is all of the previous list and more. The opportunities here are in a different league to the Third world. For that reason the pressure on immigration into the UK is intense. And will continue.

I cannot see this changing irrespective of the state of the indigenous economies that these immigrants are seeking to leave. The UK is and will remain something of a magnet as does the USA, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and most of the English speaking states. IMO the English (American) language leads the demands.

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
jogon said:
DJRC said:
It is something I find highly aggravating amongst the Kippers Steffan that they cannot and wilfully refuse to see the positives of migration. The freedom of movement of people around Europe has had such a vast positive effect upon the social acceptance of the European community that it can only be by utter myopic fear and patheticness that such benefit cannot be seen. The instant and unclose ability to see that actually most of us ARE all the same has done more to foster a sense of peace upon and within Europe than anything and everything else combined. To lose this will be a calamity of colossal proportions and it should be fought for at all costs.

The rest of the crap of the EU should be jettisoned at all costs for it is destructive and unwanted by pretty much everybody of every nationality you care to meet in Europe.

How depressing that not a single party or it seems politician can even be bothered making the case for optimism these days. The closest we have to that ironically enough is Wee bloody Eck!
Very quaint. But do you think these people would have emigrated to the UK if their own economies had been performing better.
Im afraid I wouldn't know, I left the UK to work mostly in Italy at the moment...

You must be new round here smile

mrpurple

2,624 posts

187 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
DJRC said:
It is something I find highly aggravating amongst the Kippers Steffan that they cannot and wilfully refuse to see the positives of migration.
And you willfully refuse to see or acknowledge that Kippers are not against immigration at all, whether that be from the EU or anywhere else in the world.....it is uncontrolled immigration they are against. Allowing, even encouraging, immigrants to fill areas of genuine need / shortages can only be a positive for the UK providing that it does not become the course of 1st choice because it is easier than training, educating or indeed motivating those that are already here.

So for the avoidance of doubt - UKIP want controlled immigration from wherever in the world it comes from not just controlled from the rest of the world but an open door policy from within the EU as it is at present - and that can't / wont be changed whilst members of the EU regardless of CMD's proposed bullcensoredt negotiations that he won't elaborate upon.

As for the rest of the crap - I agree 100%.

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
jogon said:
While Giles, Tarquin and Jonty board their business BA flight to Geneva to start their busy financial based job we look forward to Mo, Saeed and Aasif to safely arrive on the back of a lorry from Calais to begin their life on benefits.
Thats a fantastic brilliant argument! With only two minor problems.

A) Mo, Saeed and Aasif get about £10-15k in benefits for the yr. They recycle most/all all of that into the UK economy. Lets say its £15k, so £10k of that goes back into the system. Net loss...£5k each, so £15k total for the yr. Giles, Tarquin and Jonty all earn 200,000 Chuffs. Tax rate + local tax + health premium in the Geneva/Nyon area is about 17% all told, lets call it 20% because its communist Suiise. Its 17k - 3400, throw in 600 for pillar 1 tax, another 600 for pillar 2 and 400 for a nominal pillar 3 and its 5k. So that 12k nett. Actually thats grossly pessimistic, the reality would be more like 15k nett. Rent about 2k, food and travel costs about 1k and you are looking at 12k left over. Leave 2k in the Postfinance account and transfer the other 10k back across to Blighty.

"But they wouldn't do that!" Well actually yes they would, its what most of us did/do because we mortgages, families, savings, bills, etc in the Uk so the vast majority of the pay check comes back into the Blighty accounting system each month. Thats about £6.5k

So, Mo has basically cost about £5k for the yr to the British tax payer. Giles has brought in £6.5k in a month. Which he then reinvests back into the Uk economy.

As any Brit ex-pat will tell you, the "immigrants costs us money" drivel is comprehensively blown out of the water by how much money British immigrants drain out of foreign economic systems and bring back to the UK. It is orders of magnitude in favour of the British economy. Why isn't it reported on much? Because its a dull story to sell, esp to ppl who want to have something to gripe about.

Do you know why Im so scathing about you lackwitted morons who attempt to perpetuate this crap? Because all you do is draw attention away from the far bigger issues of what is wrong with Europe and the political entity that is the EU. And for that gross incompetence, cowardice, dereliction of duty and traitorous behaviour in aiding and betting the enemies of the country by wilfully trying to distract attention away from the true enemies of her sovereignty...if I had my way Id have you shot.

Others may be more merciful, but frankly...Im a .

mrpurple

2,624 posts

187 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
DJRC said:
so the vast majority of the pay check comes back into the Blighty accounting system each month.
Check????? - British ex-pat - you sure???

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
mrpurple said:
DJRC said:
It is something I find highly aggravating amongst the Kippers Steffan that they cannot and wilfully refuse to see the positives of migration.
And you willfully refuse to see or acknowledge that Kippers are not against immigration at all, whether that be from the EU or anywhere else in the world.....it is uncontrolled immigration they are against. Allowing, even encouraging, immigrants to fill areas of genuine need / shortages can only be a positive for the UK providing that it does not become the course of 1st choice because it is easier than training, educating or indeed motivating those that are already here.

So for the avoidance of doubt - UKIP want controlled immigration from wherever in the world it comes from not just controlled from the rest of the world but an open door policy from within the EU as it is at present - and that can't / wont be changed whilst members of the EU regardless of CMD's proposed bullcensoredt negotiations that he won't elaborate upon.

As for the rest of the crap - I agree 100%.
And you still haven't grasped my point yet. Immigration...controlled or uncontrolled is absolutely utterly 100% irrelevant. There is a reason whenever you lot have come back about "controlled immigration" responses to my last few posts on this and I haven't responded...BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS fkING OBVIOUS!

Immigration in any way shape or form that it might contribute (or not) to the debate is not the problem. I tell you what, next time I won't be so subtle OK? I really do feel sorry the UK.

jogon

2,971 posts

157 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
With maths like that if your involved in finance then I wouldn't be surprised.



mrpurple

2,624 posts

187 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
DJRC said:
mrpurple said:
DJRC said:
It is something I find highly aggravating amongst the Kippers Steffan that they cannot and wilfully refuse to see the positives of migration.
And you willfully refuse to see or acknowledge that Kippers are not against immigration at all, whether that be from the EU or anywhere else in the world.....it is uncontrolled immigration they are against. Allowing, even encouraging, immigrants to fill areas of genuine need / shortages can only be a positive for the UK providing that it does not become the course of 1st choice because it is easier than training, educating or indeed motivating those that are already here.

So for the avoidance of doubt - UKIP want controlled immigration from wherever in the world it comes from not just controlled from the rest of the world but an open door policy from within the EU as it is at present - and that can't / wont be changed whilst members of the EU regardless of CMD's proposed bullcensoredt negotiations that he won't elaborate upon.

As for the rest of the crap - I agree 100%.
And you still haven't grasped my point yet. Immigration...controlled or uncontrolled is absolutely utterly 100% irrelevant. There is a reason whenever you lot have come back about "controlled immigration" responses to my last few posts on this and I haven't responded...BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS fkING OBVIOUS!

Immigration in any way shape or form that it might contribute (or not) to the debate is not the problem. I tell you what, next time I won't be so subtle OK? I really do feel sorry the UK.
Well if it is irrelevant why the fook do you keep banging on about it? and being Mr Angry won't make a blind bit of difference either.

jogon

2,971 posts

157 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
What you fail to take into account is the family that soon follows complete with multiple kids who need to be housed, educated and if their poor soles get ill then free healthcare too. There is 'a vast black market industry going on in the uk right now because to survive on benefits you have no other choice.

Andy Zarse

10,868 posts

246 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
Jogon you'd be better advised taking up cudgels against the quite disastrous Minimum Wage if you want to fight for working people. It needs scrapping ASAP.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
DJRC said:
As any Brit ex-pat will tell you, the "immigrants costs us money" drivel is comprehensively blown out of the water by how much money British immigrants drain out of foreign economic systems and bring back to the UK. It is orders of magnitude in favour of the British economy.
Orders of magnitude? Over 100 times in Britains favour? I find that hard to believe

Walford

2,259 posts

165 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
Europe is on the brink of another financial collapse, will we get control of our boarders before half of Portugal Greece and Ireland decide to move to England?

or do you want to live in a united states of Europe, were every part of your life, including your vacuum cleaner is regulated by a supper state ?

Digga

40,206 posts

282 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
Walford said:
Europe is on the brink of another financial collapse, will we get control of our boarders before half of Portugal Greece and Ireland decide to move to England?

or do you want to live in a united states of Europe, were every part of your life, including your vacuum cleaner is regulated by a supper state ?
I think the BIG picture is the failure of western, free market economies to live within their means and without inflation (which requires 'growth' to sustain the sham), all of which is generally down to profligate, inefficient and greedy government and public sectors.

No one is going to be immune from the fallout, rather, individual economies may better navigate the pitfalls are reduce their exposure.

Walford

2,259 posts

165 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
Digga said:
Walford said:
Europe is on the brink of another financial collapse, will we get control of our boarders before half of Portugal Greece and Ireland decide to move to England?

or do you want to live in a united states of Europe, were every part of your life, including your vacuum cleaner is regulated by a supper state ?
I think the BIG picture is the failure of western, free market economies to live within their means and without inflation (which requires 'growth' to sustain the sham), all of which is generally down to profligate, inefficient and greedy government and public sectors.

No one is going to be immune from the fallout, rather, individual economies may better navigate the pitfalls are reduce their exposure.
Agree, the supper state cannot stop its self, until it reaches 100%

Andy Zarse

10,868 posts

246 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
Walford said:
Agree, the supper state cannot stop its self, until it reaches 100%
Will it eat itself? wink

Digga

40,206 posts

282 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
Andy Zarse said:
Walford said:
Agree, the supper state cannot stop its self, until it reaches 100%
Will it eat itself? wink
Well we all know this. There is no need to guess; as the iron curtain came down, it was pretty clear how successful 100% stateism is.

hidetheelephants

23,765 posts

192 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
DJRC said:
How depressing that not a single party or it seems politician can even be bothered making the case for optimism these days. The closest we have to that ironically enough is Wee bloody Eck!
It's all very well slagging him off, but he's seen off all the supposed Westminster heavyweights that have made the journey north; not one of them have made a dent in the mountain of reasons for preserving the union, they contented themselves with splitting hairs over projected oil production and oil price futures and how the pound won't be shared, which amounts to shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic. Remind me again who the pipsqueak is?

Eck is pretty objectionable as a politician, but he's danced around every clown from London that's tried to take him on. I can draw one of two conclusions from this; either CMD actually wants iScotland, or there simply aren't any decent politicians left who give a st enough to form a cohesive argument.

Steffan

10,362 posts

227 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
hidetheelephants said:
DJRC said:
How depressing that not a single party or it seems politician can even be bothered making the case for optimism these days. The closest we have to that ironically enough is Wee bloody Eck!
It's all very well slagging him off, but he's seen off all the supposed Westminster heavyweights that have made the journey north; not one of them have made a dent in the mountain of reasons for preserving the union, they contented themselves with splitting hairs over projected oil production and oil price futures and how the pound won't be shared, which amounts to shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic. Remind me again who the pipsqueak is?

Eck is pretty objectionable as a politician, but he's danced around every clown from London that's tried to take him on. I can draw one of two conclusions from this; either CMD actually wants iScotland, or there simply aren't any decent politicians left who give a st enough to form a cohesive argument.
I cannot disagree with that conclusion. Are Cameron (and the Conservatives and the Labour Party) sleep walking into the biggest structural change in the last 300 years of British History? Without any vote on this change or the need for this change in the rest of the UK and without the need for any Referenda to the entire UK on such a change being proposed or even debated in the Place of Westminster.

Or are the Politicians so utterly bound up in their own self serving gravy train continuing that they are so stupid and lacking in understanding of the reality of feeling in the UK on this subject and the reality of the consequences of a break up vote deciding the entire future of the UK whilst over 80% of the UK electorate have never been consulted?

On balance I think that the stupidity and lacking of understanding by our politicians make the second possibility the most probable. This is down to idiots simply not understanding the reality of the massive consequences of their folly to the entire country. If this happens the Cameron and Miliband are toast politically and we will be in the midst of the greatest political crisis for several hundred years in the UK. Sadly I think ur politicians really are that shallow and out of touch.

The consequences could be horrendous throughout the UK and the costs totally unaffordable. I desperately hope the vote favours Scotland remaining within the UK. But it does look a close call and this totally unnecessary and unwanted mess should snuff out the career of Cameron. Boris here we come I think. Whatever the result I think Cameron is a dead duck politically henceforth.


steveT350C

6,728 posts

160 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
Without the 60 odd seats (I think ) the Scottish vote gives Labour, maybe CMD thought that losing Scotland would be good for him and his career politician mates.

Until that is he was summoned by Her Majesty?

loafer123

15,404 posts

214 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all

It is all utterly irrelevant.

The genie is well and truly out of the bottle and whether Scotland stay or go what is left will become a federal collection of regions.

I'll be glad not to be ruled by Labour again, but it will be tough to maintain our reputation in the world during the messy transition.