Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]
Discussion
DJRC said:
Ciao Steffan. The uncertainty is currently costing me an annoying pay cut in my wage but as my pension savings are in Chuffs it's one of those make it back with the other hand jobs!
I have no idea what will happen to be honest.
Good to hear your positioning is giving you a degree of protection! It is a difficult call. A very difficult call. I have no idea what will happen to be honest.
On balance the attitude and actions of the new Greek government seem to me to be distinctly antagonistic towards the EU. The Greeks are all saying they would like to remain in the EU but their message clearly requires fundamental changes by the EU in their repayment terms. I cannot see how that can be achieved by the EU without every other failing state saying 'hang on a minute we want some of that!' and there are a fair number.
The EU may be able to cobble something together to make this run for a llittle longer. But as the Greek PM said no reasonable economist could honestly expect that the Greeks could actually repay the levels off debt that actually exist in Greece. The debt burden is simply too great for a diminished economy to repay. I therefore cannot see the Greeks repaying their debts. How that will be managed is anther question entirely IMO. There comes a point with debt when the debtors simply cannot continue to repay their debts. Greece seems to me to be beyond that point.
It seems to me they need to go back to the EU and say 'We can't afford to pay back the money we owe, and while we're on the subject, we've had enough of this austerity crap so we'd like to borrow some more money to fund our otherwise unsustainable lifestyle for a few more years'. They'll probably dress it up a bit, but that's the gist.
Andy Zarse said:
Antagonist to the EU, yes.
@YanniKouts: Unverified: Govt forcing Bank of #Greece governor Stournaras to resign. If true, it is the worst timing ever to force Stournaras out.
If true I guess they see him as part of the failed past.
There do seem to be moves afoot to that end. However as we know, rumours are not hard facts. If it is tue I do agree that the timing is daft. But then I think the powers in Greece are measuring up to play hardball. Be interesting to see how the EU respond. Not well I would think. As DJRC stated ths is becoming a highly comples matter and it is very difficult to anticipate what happens next. The markets clearly are not happy. Perhaps rightly.@YanniKouts: Unverified: Govt forcing Bank of #Greece governor Stournaras to resign. If true, it is the worst timing ever to force Stournaras out.
If true I guess they see him as part of the failed past.
Steffan said:
Andy Zarse said:
Antagonist to the EU, yes.
@YanniKouts: Unverified: Govt forcing Bank of #Greece governor Stournaras to resign. If true, it is the worst timing ever to force Stournaras out.
If true I guess they see him as part of the failed past.
There do seem to be moves afoot to that end. However as we know, rumours are not hard facts. If it is tue I do agree that the timing is daft. But then I think the powers in Greece are measuring up to play hardball. Be interesting to see how the EU respond. Not well I would think. As DJRC stated ths is becoming a highly comples matter and it is very difficult to anticipate what happens next. The markets clearly are not happy. Perhaps rightly.@YanniKouts: Unverified: Govt forcing Bank of #Greece governor Stournaras to resign. If true, it is the worst timing ever to force Stournaras out.
If true I guess they see him as part of the failed past.
Steffan said:
I think the powers in Greece are measuring up to play hardball. Be interesting to see how the EU respond. Not well I would think. As DJRC stated ths is becoming a highly comples matter and it is very difficult to anticipate what happens next. The markets clearly are not happy. Perhaps rightly.
This is all the fault of the EU - particularly Germany and France. By stamping on the face of democracy they've forced extreme parties into power - wouldn't be surprised if they do a deal with Russia. (Maybe this is why they've quashed the port deal?)Andy Zarse said:
They must also be shiiting themselves about having to explain to their own electors that the money they lent Greece has gone up in smoke. Here's a handy table showing who is owed what;
Anyone else wondering how Italy can afford a loss of Eu48BN!
jeez ! i knew it was bad,but not that bad .squeaky bum time all round the eurozone by the looks of that. still i am looking forward to the cheap holidays in greece .Anyone else wondering how Italy can afford a loss of Eu48BN!
Snoggledog said:
TBH I don't think that's such a bad idea. After all the majority of the 'all inclusive' holiday venues are owned by foreign companies who may not be adding that much to the economy. By breaking that link between hotel and punter there's a chance that people may venture outside of the resort and spend money locally.
agreed ,and if they do end up back with the drachma with the resultant favourable exchange rate all the better. though looking at the percentage of holidays that are all inclusive given in the article it would appear not much more than ten percent of holiday makers are booking all inclusive anyway .Edited by wc98 on Thursday 29th January 00:00
fido said:
This is all the fault of the EU - particularly Germany and France. By stamping on the face of democracy they've forced extreme parties into power - wouldn't be surprised if they do a deal with Russia. (Maybe this is why they've quashed the port deal?)
Given Russia is hemorrhaging reserves at the moment, I fail to see how they are going to want to bail Greece out.Things in Greece are bad. So bad, that the outgoing government of Antonis Samaras decided to not only leave the new inhabitants of the official residence of the Greek prime minister, the Maximos Mansion, without power, and without the WiFi password, but they decided to "borrow" all the soap in the toilet as well.
We sit in the dark. We have no internet, no email, no way to communicate with each other", said an employee of the Office, who has worked for various government for years. "That's never happened before." It shows that Samaras' team have "no manners and no decency."
Because of blackouts in the Maximos Mansion the official website of the Greek Prime Minister still shows the image and the resume of Samaras - even though since Monday, the left SYRIZA leader Alexis Tsipras is the head of government in Athens.
It was the first time that a government handover has been so bitter, said the office staff to SPIEGEL ONLINE. "Everything was seamless and worked under Mr Samaras but he would not let Mr Tsipras benefit."
Samaras had already demonstrated in recent days that he is a bad loser. He was absent, as Tsipras arrived after his swearing-in of the Maximos Mansion on Monday. This Samaras broke with tradition: It is common for an outgoing Prime Minister his successor in office sitting welcomes you and wishes him success for the government's work.
The environment of the ousted conservative Prime Minister pointed out that Samaras was not required according to Greek constitution to welcome his successor welcome.
But the lack of internet access should be the least of the problems for Tsipras and his team. Greek media report that Samaras' employees have not even left the soap in the staff toilets.
We sit in the dark. We have no internet, no email, no way to communicate with each other", said an employee of the Office, who has worked for various government for years. "That's never happened before." It shows that Samaras' team have "no manners and no decency."
Because of blackouts in the Maximos Mansion the official website of the Greek Prime Minister still shows the image and the resume of Samaras - even though since Monday, the left SYRIZA leader Alexis Tsipras is the head of government in Athens.
It was the first time that a government handover has been so bitter, said the office staff to SPIEGEL ONLINE. "Everything was seamless and worked under Mr Samaras but he would not let Mr Tsipras benefit."
Samaras had already demonstrated in recent days that he is a bad loser. He was absent, as Tsipras arrived after his swearing-in of the Maximos Mansion on Monday. This Samaras broke with tradition: It is common for an outgoing Prime Minister his successor in office sitting welcomes you and wishes him success for the government's work.
The environment of the ousted conservative Prime Minister pointed out that Samaras was not required according to Greek constitution to welcome his successor welcome.
But the lack of internet access should be the least of the problems for Tsipras and his team. Greek media report that Samaras' employees have not even left the soap in the staff toilets.
Borghetto said:
tumble dryer said:
Mind you, NK gets invited to their party; anybody else see shades of the enemy of my enemy...?
It seems the new Greek Foreign Minister has sent warm greetings to Turkey, so I guess anything is possible.It was always thus. And probably always will be.
And, whilst on the poetic prophetic; "Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do & die..."
I'm thinking that the game, by manipulating 'pawns'(if you'll pardon the flippancy) might present 'us' with a new thinking of 'them'.
Scary stuff, but of course, that's the intention.
(ETA Sorry for hijacking the thread)
Edited by tumble dryer on Thursday 29th January 01:04
Borghetto said:
fido said:
This is all the fault of the EU - particularly Germany and France. By stamping on the face of democracy they've forced extreme parties into power - wouldn't be surprised if they do a deal with Russia. (Maybe this is why they've quashed the port deal?)
Given Russia is hemorrhaging reserves at the moment, I fail to see how they are going to want to bail Greece out.Greece won't need a bailout as such if it defaults as it leaves the euro,or atleast it wouldn't whilst it has a budget surplus.
Bloomberg is reporting Greece as being hostile towards the EU Russian sanctions.
Helping Greece would be a great way for Putin to give the eu a good kick in the teeth.
Edited by Brite spark on Thursday 29th January 07:09
Axionknight said:
There's trouble now. 
Article said:
Measures to Halt Privatizations and Rehire Public Workers Trigger Greek Market Selloff
Within hours of taking office, government officials said they would stop the planned sale of the state’s majority stake in Greece’s largest port and dominant utility. They also pledged to rehire thousands of public-sector workers and reopen the country’s state broadcaster, which had been shut down by the previous government.
The moves scuttled the expectations of some European officials that Greece’s new leadership would retreat from its radical campaign platform after attaining power.
Within hours of taking office, government officials said they would stop the planned sale of the state’s majority stake in Greece’s largest port and dominant utility. They also pledged to rehire thousands of public-sector workers and reopen the country’s state broadcaster, which had been shut down by the previous government.
The moves scuttled the expectations of some European officials that Greece’s new leadership would retreat from its radical campaign platform after attaining power.
Brite spark said:
Borghetto said:
fido said:
This is all the fault of the EU - particularly Germany and France. By stamping on the face of democracy they've forced extreme parties into power - wouldn't be surprised if they do a deal with Russia. (Maybe this is why they've quashed the port deal?)
Given Russia is hemorrhaging reserves at the moment, I fail to see how they are going to want to bail Greece out.Helping Greece would be a great way for Putin to give the eu a good kick in the teeth.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-links-loom-larg...
turbobloke said:
Axionknight said:
There's trouble now.
Article said:
Measures to Halt Privatizations and Rehire Public Workers Trigger Greek Market Selloff
Within hours of taking office, government officials said they would stop the planned sale of the state’s majority stake in Greece’s largest port and dominant utility. They also pledged to rehire thousands of public-sector workers and reopen the country’s state broadcaster, which had been shut down by the previous government.
The moves scuttled the expectations of some European officials that Greece’s new leadership would retreat from its radical campaign platform after attaining power.
Within hours of taking office, government officials said they would stop the planned sale of the state’s majority stake in Greece’s largest port and dominant utility. They also pledged to rehire thousands of public-sector workers and reopen the country’s state broadcaster, which had been shut down by the previous government.
The moves scuttled the expectations of some European officials that Greece’s new leadership would retreat from its radical campaign platform after attaining power.
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