Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]

[tom2019]

I'm curious to see what a left wing socialist utopia looks like. Maybe being left wing isn't so bad..

[Andy Zarse]

fido said:

This is all the fault of the EU - particularly Germany and France. By stamping on the face of democracy they've forced extreme parties into power - wouldn't be surprised if they do a deal with Russia. (Maybe this is why they've quashed the port deal?)

Interesting short blog from new Greek Fin Min Yanis Varoufakis. I think it amply demonstrates the arrogance of the EU, and why the complete lack of respect for nation states has lead to a Syriza administration.

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/01/29/a-question-of...

[chris watton]

tom2019 said:

I'm curious to see what a left wing socialist utopia looks like. Maybe being left wing isn't so bad..

....Until you read a bit of history....

[Andy Zarse]

hora said:

Andy Zarse said:

Interesting short blog from new Greek Fin Min Yanis Varoufakis. I think it amply demonstrates the arrogance of the EU, and why the complete lack of respect for nation states has lead to a Syriza administration.

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/01/29/a-question-of...

Who cooked the books again?

Give 'em a break, they've only been in power a couple of days. No excuse for the EU "Foreign Ministry" to behave like this.

[Andy Zarse]

chris watton said:

tom2019 said:

I'm curious to see what a left wing socialist utopia looks like. Maybe being left wing isn't so bad..

....Until you read a bit of history....

Well these are one lot of socialists who won't run out of other people's money... as they haven't got any money to start with!

[RYH64E]

Andy Zarse said:

fido said:

This is all the fault of the EU - particularly Germany and France. By stamping on the face of democracy they've forced extreme parties into power - wouldn't be surprised if they do a deal with Russia. (Maybe this is why they've quashed the port deal?)

Interesting short blog from new Greek Fin Min Yanis Varoufakis. I think it amply demonstrates the arrogance of the EU, and why the complete lack of respect for nation states has lead to a Syriza administration.

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/01/29/a-question-of...

Quite possibly the previous administration voted to approve new sanctions? International diplomacy doesn't stop in the run up to an election.

So Greece has voted for a party that has promised an end to austerity, it's akin to promising world peace, free money and eternal youth. Great if it can be achieved, but how?

There seems to be a new version of democracy emerging (in Scotland, Greece and UKIP for example) that says that whatever the electorate votes for must happen, whether it's financially affordable or not, and with or without the consent of other countries who might quite reasonably assume that they also have a say in what should happen if it affects them (and especially if they're expected to pay for it).

[EskimoArapaho]

Brite spark said:

Helping Greece would be a great way for Putin to give the eu a good kick in the teeth.

Well, Putin would love to buy Greece's exit from NATO.

[Steffan]

Andy Zarse said:

chris watton said:

tom2019 said:

I'm curious to see what a left wing socialist utopia looks like. Maybe being left wing isn't so bad..

....Until you read a bit of history....

Well these are one lot of socialists who won't run out of other people's money... as they haven't got any money to start with!

RYH64E said:

Andy Zarse said:

fido said:

This is all the fault of the EU - particularly Germany and France. By stamping on the face of democracy they've forced extreme parties into power - wouldn't be surprised if they do a deal with Russia. (Maybe this is why they've quashed the port deal?)

Interesting short blog from new Greek Fin Min Yanis Varoufakis. I think it amply demonstrates the arrogance of the EU, and why the complete lack of respect for nation states has lead to a Syriza administration.

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/01/29/a-question-of...

Quite possibly the previous administration voted to approve new sanctions? International diplomacy doesn't stop in the run up to an election.

So Greece has voted for a party that has promised an end to austerity, it's akin to promising world peace, free money and eternal youth. Great if it can be achieved, but how?

There seems to be a new version of democracy emerging (in Scotland, Greece and UKIP for example) that says that whatever the electorate votes for must happen, whether it's financially affordable or not, and with or without the consent of other countries who might quite reasonably assume that they also have a say in what should happen if it affects them (and especially if they're expected to pay for it).

I agree with both Andy Zarse and RYH64E socialist dreams have metamorpasised into personal rights which minorities consider are their entitlement irrespective of whether it is practical, possible or actually affirdable or achievable.

Naturally the cliamants of those rights have no concern whatsoever about affordability or responsibility two words now entirely absent from left wing socialists agenda. This is absolute nonsense but it gives people like Nicola Sturgeon and Syriza a platform and method of accessing the gravy trains in politics which are the pinnacle of achievement today. Equally playing at politics without any personal responsibility or liability has become the bet road to riches hence the PPE graduates all entering politics ASAP.

I can only see trouble ahead for Greece now, sadly. There is no way they can afford to repay the debts that they borrowed nor is there any way Greece and afford to be in a currency union with Germany. We are watching history being made and with the reaction on the markets and the lack of any real responses from the EU it seems almost certain that Greece cannot remain within the Euro. I cannot see Russia stepping in being in enough difficulty already themselves. But never say never suggests the availability of Mediterranean ports might cause Russia to think differently. Who would trust Putin? Not me but I do think Greece may explore that avenue.

[Timmy40]

EskimoArapaho said:

Brite spark said:

Helping Greece would be a great way for Putin to give the eu a good kick in the teeth.

Well, Putin would love to buy Greece's exit from NATO.

Interesting angle. And probably why Germany will be picking up the tab for Greece, as quietly as possible of course.

[Mermaid]

Steffan said:

...I can only see trouble ahead for Greece now, sadly. There is no way they can afford to repay the debts that they borrowed nor is there any way Greece and afford to be in a currency union with Germany. We are watching history being made and with the reaction on the markets and the lack of any real responses from the EU it seems almost certain that Greece cannot remain within the Euro. I cannot see Russia stepping in being in enough difficulty already themselves. But never say never suggests the availability of Mediterranean ports might cause Russia to think differently. Who would trust Putin? Not me but I do think Greece may explore that avenue.

This is far from over, and a new ball game - I am not convinced it will only be a downward path for Greece.

[Steffan]

Mermaid said:

Steffan said:

...I can only see trouble ahead for Greece now, sadly. There is no way they can afford to repay the debts that they borrowed nor is there any way Greece and afford to be in a currency union with Germany. We are watching history being made and with the reaction on the markets and the lack of any real responses from the EU it seems almost certain that Greece cannot remain within the Euro. I cannot see Russia stepping in being in enough difficulty already themselves. But never say never suggests the availability of Mediterranean ports might cause Russia to think differently. Who would trust Putin? Not me but I do think Greece may explore that avenue.

This is far from over, and a new ball game - I am not convinced it will only be a downward path for Greece.

Interesting comments Mermaid. What do you think might come out of this for Greece? Is there a chance that Russia may offer Greece a third way? As others have said that would kick the EU in the teeth. Or is there some other works afoot that you have discovered?

[Digga]

Interesting time for Carney/the Governor of the BoE to wade in with public comment on the unsustainability of the Euro in its current construct:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31030425

[Mermaid]

Steffan said:

Interesting comments Mermaid. What do you think might come out of this for Greece? Is there a chance that Russia may offer Greece a third way? As others have said that would kick the EU in the teeth. Or is there some other works afoot that you have discovered?

No1 - it will no longer be business as usual, this will be the catalyst for Greeks to reform. It was mistake for them to sign up, and a mistake for them to stay in.

Russia - needs friends that do not suck up to the old EU order. Russia, Iran, Greece, Syria ...

[turbobloke]

Digga said:

Interesting time for Carney/the Governor of the BoE to wade in with public comment on the unsustainability of the Euro in its current construct:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31030425

Good call though!

[Timmy40]

I hindsight you have to wonder why on earth would any sane person think that Greece and Germany had economies so similar that they could possibly share the same currency.

[Walford]

This is the beginning of a new phase, National elections will become a very big problem for the EU

[Steffan]

Mermaid said:

Steffan said:

Interesting comments Mermaid. What do you think might come out of this for Greece? Is there a chance that Russia may offer Greece a third way? As others have said that would kick the EU in the teeth. Or is there some other works afoot that you have discovered?

No1 - it will no longer be business as usual, this will be the catalyst for Greeks to reform. It was mistake for them to sign up, and a mistake for them to stay in.

Russia - needs friends that do not suck up to the old EU order. Russia, Iran, Greece, Syria ...

Interesting comments once again Mermaid. Does that mean you're anticipating an escape from the EU debt for Greece with Russian assistance. That would put the cat amongst the pigeons of the EU. Putin s certainly capable of this. I wonder........?

[Andy Zarse]

Guam said:

Steffan said:

Interesting comments once again Mermaid. Does that mean you're anticipating an escape from the EU debt for Greece with Russian assistance. That would put the cat amongst the pigeons of the EU. Putin s certainly capable of this. I wonder........?

The Greeks have much more leverage than they are given credit for.

What if they pulled out of Nato and offered Port facilities to the Russians in return for paying off their Debt.
Brussels needs to go very careful here, once Athens goes Rogue they could do literally anything to pull themselves out of the Mire (and who could blame them)!

Such a shame... Syriza have done/are doing the hard part. They got elected and are about to stick two fingers up to the debt and the Troika. And then... implement crazy unaffordable socialist daydreams which will finally wreck their wretched economy for the foreseeable. They are wasting an opportunity.

How long until tanks are on the street and the Colonels are back in charge? I bet Germany secretly wouldn't mind.

[Gargamel]

Guam said:

The Greeks have much more leverage than they are given credit for.

What if they pulled out of Nato and offered Port facilities to the Russians in return for paying off their Debt.
Brussels needs to go very careful here, once Athens goes Rogue they could do literally anything to pull themselves out of the Mire (and who could blame them)!

Can;t see it myself.

They owe a lot of money, their national banks are currently only maintained by ECB emergency funding. They would need circa 100bn to remain solvent through the next year.

Oil price currently in the stter. Greeks can never pay Russia back. and 70% of the Greek Population want to keep the Euro.

No mandate for Syriza to go full commie, and anyway if you think owing money to Mrs Merkel is a problem, wait until you owe 300bn to Mr Putin.

I think it far more likely that an Armageddon scenario in Greece involves a Military coup and a stability government formed of Generals. They have been there before.

Long way from that. ECB will move repayments out to 50 years, lower the coupon rate and take the heat out of the situation, I can see a 50% haircut as a compromise. Enough to keep the Greeks in, not overly generous to move Spain, Italy, Portugal and Ireland to scream too loudly. Alex needs to focus on the economic fundamentals.

[Digga]

Timmy40 said:

I hindsight you have to wonder why on earth would any sane person think that Greece and Germany had economies so similar that they could possibly share the same currency.

Actually I don't I've been saying it - to much criticism - to anyone who asks, since 2002. Early on, I felt like the boy in the story of the Emperor's New Clothes.