Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]

[NicD]

fido said:

Referring to the same subject twice in a sentence. Tutty tut

Edited by fido on Friday 30th January 19:06

what do you mean?

[YankeePorker]

Andy Zarse said:

And what about Italy? Their banks are absolutely stuffed full of Italian debt, which the Italian Govt. has been issuing like crazy.

Same can be said of France and Spain. I recall the French press crowing jubilantly about how low the interest rates were on French government bonds, despite a downgrading by the hated (by the French socialists) rating agencies. They seemed completely oblivious to the lorry loads of debt being bought up by BNP and Societe Generale.

It was clearly a political instruction for the banks to do so to placate the markets, but it seems very incestuous as a long term policy. I can only assume that they are hoping that by the time it all goes up tits up EZ debts have been mutualised and the ECB will be there to help.

[Steffan]

It seems to me that these latest statements clearly show that Greece is seeking to determine its own future. The meeting between the Greek finance minister and the head of the EU Finance Ministers demonstrated that Greece only intend to negotiate with the real players and not the also ran bureaucrats.

This is getting distinctly interesting for observers because the Greeks are defining the game plan and not the EU which is a clear demonstration that once again the EU are reacting to this matter and not controlling this matter. I think this really does suggest that the Greeks are very well placed to get the game changed. How the EU accommodate this I have no idea. But these boys certainly seem to be managing this business and the EU is going to have to find the finance for this to continue.

The Greeks are clearly looking to write off much of the debt because they quite rightly maintain that the debt is wholly unaffordable by Greece. Looks to me as though it's the EU with the problem to solve. Remarkably similar to Banks lending far too much to debtors and having to rely on the debtors to get at least some of their money back. We which discussed just this earlier on here. "Curiouser and cuiouser said Alice" is my take on this. The EU seem to have the real problem. They want to keep Greece in the EU. They have to find the solution.

[Andy Zarse]

Here you go Steffan, look at the body language

The "Honey I've killed the Troika" moment. Divide and conquer baby!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQGkh8gCHCA

[fido]

NicD said:

what do you mean?

I meant Tsipras referring to the bailout twice in the sentence makes for confusing reading. Still i guess he hasn't got a speech writer. {edited because typing in an iPhone is mentals}

Edited by fido on Friday 30th January 21:28

[paulrockliffe]

Borghetto said:

Greece refuse to negotiate with the troika - that'll go down well with their creditors.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31055069

In that article there's a graph showing who is owed what by Greece. It shows 60% to "Eurozone". What is that exactly? How is it different to the ECB, which is also listed.

[Mermaid]

Andy Zarse said:

Here you go Steffan, look at the body language

The "Honey I've killed the Troika" moment. Divide and conquer baby!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQGkh8gCHCA

Enjoyed that

[NicD]

fido said:

I meant tspiras referring to the bailout twice in the sentence makes for confusing reading. Still i guess he hasn't got a speech writer.

As you say, his intent is clear if you read the sentence a few times.

And he will get something out it, of sure.

[NicD]

paulrockliffe said:

In that article there's a graph showing who is owed what by Greece. It shows 60% to "Eurozone". What is that exactly? How is it different to the ECB, which is also listed.

this is the best illustration

http://demonocracy.info/infographics/eu/debt_greek...

[Gandahar]

This is a fantastic piece

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/financi...

Although the whole piece makes very good reading the part in relation to Greece is

"Allow your ailing banks to collapse; devalue your currency if you have one of your own; introduce capital controls; and try to avoid paying back foreign debts."

Now you can see where the Greeks currently are a bit hamstrung. They cannot devalue their currency and they are having issues with avoiding paying back foreign debts.

And they don't have knitting and sex experts either like Iceland.

[YankeePorker]

Andy Zarse said:

Here you go Steffan, look at the body language

The "Honey I've killed the Troika" moment. Divide and conquer baby!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQGkh8gCHCA

Heehee. He went away with a flea in his ear.....

[wc98]

fido said:

He wants to question how they got there in the first place. I assume in preparation for telling the ECB they won't be getting back any of that €240bn!

Edited by fido on Friday 30th January 19:06

fixed that for you

[wc98]

Mermaid said:

Andy Zarse said:

Here you go Steffan, look at the body language

The "Honey I've killed the Troika" moment. Divide and conquer baby!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQGkh8gCHCA

Enjoyed that

me too, priceless !

[chris watton]

wc98 said:

Mermaid said:

Andy Zarse said:

Here you go Steffan, look at the body language

The "Honey I've killed the Troika" moment. Divide and conquer baby!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQGkh8gCHCA

Enjoyed that

me too, priceless !

Does anyone know what was said to make him get up and leave?

[Mermaid]

wc98 said:

Mermaid said:

Andy Zarse said:

Here you go Steffan, look at the body language

The "Honey I've killed the Troika" moment. Divide and conquer baby!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQGkh8gCHCA

Enjoyed that

me too, priceless !

the Dutch chappy needs a new template

http://www.businessinsider.com/dijsselbloem-cyprus...

[Andy Zarse]

chris watton said:

wc98 said:

Mermaid said:

Andy Zarse said:

Here you go Steffan, look at the body language

The "Honey I've killed the Troika" moment. Divide and conquer baby!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQGkh8gCHCA

Enjoyed that

me too, priceless !

Does anyone know what was said to make him get up and leave?

Christ knows... I just saw Yanis Varoufacis on Newsnight and I'm afraid he totally confused me. Two-faced isn't the word.

[tumble dryer]

[turbobloke]

tumble dryer said:

Then again, when we get to understand how propaganda works, the picture is clearer still.

Not that EU matters are ever subject to this

[Steffan]

Andy Zarse said:

chris watton said:

wc98 said:

Mermaid said:

Andy Zarse said:

Here you go Steffan, look at the body language

The "Honey I've killed the Troika" moment. Divide and conquer baby!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQGkh8gCHCA

Enjoyed that

me too, priceless !

Does anyone know what was said to make him get up and leave?

Christ knows... I just saw Yanis Varoufacis on Newsnight and I'm afraid he totally confused me. Two-faced isn't the word.

There are indeed very mixed messages coming out if Greece indeed this latest one is clearly totally opposed to a Greek exit see: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31067473.

I think actually the Greeks are seeking to exercise their own opinions whilst staying on the tightrope of not dismissing any option. Lloyd George, who was renowned for his natural ability to sleep comfortably in a corkscrew, could be very useful here. Time will tell but I do think the constant underlining by the Greek left wing government that the debt is actually way beyond what Greece can actually afford, is absolutely correct. This is becoming an EU problem, indeed has become an EU problem because in this relationship only the EU can afford such debt. Reality time for the EU I think.

[Mermaid]

Steffan said:

There are indeed very mixed messages coming out if Greece indeed this latest one is clearly totally opposed to a Greek exit see: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31067473.

I think actually the Greeks are seeking to exercise their own opinions whilst staying on the tightrope of not dismissing any option. Lloyd George, who was renowned for his natural ability to sleep comfortably in a corkscrew, could be very useful here. Time will tell but I do think the constant underlining by the Greek left wing government that the debt is actually way beyond what Greece can actually afford, is absolutely correct. This is becoming an EU problem, indeed has become an EU problem because in this relationship only the EU can afford such debt. Reality time for the EU I think.

What would you advocate if you were the new finance minister?