Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]
Discussion
YankeePorker said:
Steffan said:
The problem of repayment is essentially a problem for Greece.
Given the 100s of billions of € of debt that they have, the problem of repayment is a problem for the lenders too. Even if the pariah state consequences will be unpleasant, the Greeks could walk away from that debt and land the problem on the ECB, that would then want to talk to the original lending banks about this big hole in its finances. The economic ramifications would be messy, so the Greeks still hold a pretty strong poker hand in my opinion.They might stay and get a the term extended and a reduction in the interest rate, but the debt levels are not going to be cut. The cold dead eyes of Herr Schaueble have said as much today.
fblm said:
YankeePorker said:
Steffan said:
The problem of repayment is essentially a problem for Greece.
Given the 100s of billions of € of debt that they have, the problem of repayment is a problem for the lenders too.fblm said:
Nothing. Ever. That's the point. Complete waste of space who somehow is Deputy PM. It says rather a lot about the quality of the rest of them.
Indeed it does, when you consider the state the UK was in after the Rev. the Clown together with his sidekick Balls, had left it. How the hell Cameron managed to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory is one of the most intriguing questions of the last 10 years!!??I'm just ploughing through today's pressconference in Berlin. Schauble stated that the German Landes (states) had offered to send Greece 500 tax inspectors/collectors - oddly Greece declined. For those interested it's about 15 minutes into the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlbJHSsnOBs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlbJHSsnOBs
My mind reels with this subject, partly through the obvious injustices, the strokes being pulled by (ultimately) Germany and the rest of the total fukwits consumed with their own self important non-mandated power trips. Have they all gone fuking mad? I’m beginning to think that Angle Meerkat believes that it was Greece who drew up and enforced the fecking Treaty of Versailles, and now it’s pay-back time. (Careful what you wish for...)
I confess again to not fully understanding the intricacies of the situation, my knowledge of the workings of capital markets could be written on a pinhead but I kinda get the power plays that are in, er, play.
Varoufakis despite the media doing its worst has come across as a well-meaning, sincere, calm and knowledgeable person, he isn’t easily rattled. More importantly he comes across as believable to the ordinary euro voter. He quite cleverly explains that more austerity, more ‘squeeze’ is counter productive to both Greece and the EU in general, and again I say, these voters will carry an enormous weight in their respective countries come election time. Fuk me, we’re on the periphery and have an (unhealthy?) interest, can you imagine what those disenchanted voters of Italy, Spain etc think / feel?
Reality check. Greece’s economy is a basket case, certainly its tax collection is. No matter what outcome transpires, this needs addressed immediately. And a growth programme. This requires investment, big time, almost Marshall Plan stylee.
Andy Z kindly replied to an earlier post of mine where I asked for assistance in understanding the latest tranche of gobbledegook emanating from the self-important ones’ bocche. I replied that they should consider asking Vlad to dinner where he replied that it would likely pi$$ off America. I still think they should.
At least, be seen to have lunch.
A pi$$ed off America could afford to throw whatever was required at the problem and certainly holds enough sway to influence Ms Iron Britches. (Come to think on it, is she modelling herself on Maggie?)
Two final points: the first is that when the Europarty got together their selling strategy was strength together. If I was invited to that party I’d be mightily pi$$ed off if I was being raped further along the line when others, at my expense, were seen to profit enormously and then try to bully me into their submissive ways. I was always the weaker kid; I knew that and so did they – but it suited their purpose at the time.
Finally. It’s ALL funny money. The money doesn’t actually matter one jot. It’s a power/control/keep the status quo (jobs for the boys) bag of $hite, bull$hit b
ks.
IMO.
X
PS I keep mentioning the possible catastrophic downsides to this all going wrong (global banking collapse blah blah). Think if you will, of this as a game. And think how you could move the pieces to orchestrate such a thing happening.
How different is your strategy from the one that’s being played out today...?
TD
I confess again to not fully understanding the intricacies of the situation, my knowledge of the workings of capital markets could be written on a pinhead but I kinda get the power plays that are in, er, play.
Varoufakis despite the media doing its worst has come across as a well-meaning, sincere, calm and knowledgeable person, he isn’t easily rattled. More importantly he comes across as believable to the ordinary euro voter. He quite cleverly explains that more austerity, more ‘squeeze’ is counter productive to both Greece and the EU in general, and again I say, these voters will carry an enormous weight in their respective countries come election time. Fuk me, we’re on the periphery and have an (unhealthy?) interest, can you imagine what those disenchanted voters of Italy, Spain etc think / feel?
Reality check. Greece’s economy is a basket case, certainly its tax collection is. No matter what outcome transpires, this needs addressed immediately. And a growth programme. This requires investment, big time, almost Marshall Plan stylee.
Andy Z kindly replied to an earlier post of mine where I asked for assistance in understanding the latest tranche of gobbledegook emanating from the self-important ones’ bocche. I replied that they should consider asking Vlad to dinner where he replied that it would likely pi$$ off America. I still think they should.
At least, be seen to have lunch.
A pi$$ed off America could afford to throw whatever was required at the problem and certainly holds enough sway to influence Ms Iron Britches. (Come to think on it, is she modelling herself on Maggie?)
Two final points: the first is that when the Europarty got together their selling strategy was strength together. If I was invited to that party I’d be mightily pi$$ed off if I was being raped further along the line when others, at my expense, were seen to profit enormously and then try to bully me into their submissive ways. I was always the weaker kid; I knew that and so did they – but it suited their purpose at the time.
Finally. It’s ALL funny money. The money doesn’t actually matter one jot. It’s a power/control/keep the status quo (jobs for the boys) bag of $hite, bull$hit b
ks.IMO.
X
PS I keep mentioning the possible catastrophic downsides to this all going wrong (global banking collapse blah blah). Think if you will, of this as a game. And think how you could move the pieces to orchestrate such a thing happening.
How different is your strategy from the one that’s being played out today...?
TD
[quote=Borghetto]I'm just ploughing through today's pressconference in Berlin. Schauble stated that the German Landes (states) had offered to send Greece 500 tax inspectors/collectors - oddly Greece declined. For those interested it's about 15 minutes into the video.
Well, you always want as much time as possible to get your affairs in order before the Taxmen come to visit !!!!
Well, you always want as much time as possible to get your affairs in order before the Taxmen come to visit !!!!
Thinking about it, given the problem noted earlier on Syriza's mandate, I'd love it if they DID set up a referendum in Greece. If all that is on offer is debt deferral and tinkering with the interest rates and their electorate want to stay in the € zone, they could present the problem to the population with a simple either or:
A. Default on our whole debt, print the NeoDrachma, leave the € zone and go it alone as a debt-free, blacklisted defaulter with all the severe consequences that that will initially have.
B. Accept the offered deal from our € zone partners to partially defer our national debt repayments and reduce the interest rates. We will stay part of the € zone but will still have unsustainable debt levels and will have to respect all the original Troika austerity stipulations.
There would be some squeaky bums in Brussels if that was put to the Greeks, however much they say that GREXIT would be ok by them!
A. Default on our whole debt, print the NeoDrachma, leave the € zone and go it alone as a debt-free, blacklisted defaulter with all the severe consequences that that will initially have.
B. Accept the offered deal from our € zone partners to partially defer our national debt repayments and reduce the interest rates. We will stay part of the € zone but will still have unsustainable debt levels and will have to respect all the original Troika austerity stipulations.
There would be some squeaky bums in Brussels if that was put to the Greeks, however much they say that GREXIT would be ok by them!
QuantumTokoloshi said:
I am beginning to like this new Greek finance minister.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-04/president...
now imagine him as head of the eu instead of the insipid,spineless,pasty grey faced tosser currently running the show. it might actually function as first intended.http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-04/president...
now i am disappointed in the main players in this thread.please read the zerohedge link and see what he is actually saying. yes ,he is a politician,but they want to address the tax avoidance,they want to address the cronyism and crooks sucking the lifeblood out of the country,but they do not want to be hiring appointed eu experts on silly money while all the people required to maintain the countries infrastructure are sat at home while it collapses.
again i may be misunderstanding ,but he also says they are looking for a restructuring of the repayments ,which obviously means some form of deferment,i do not get the impression they are seeking to walk away from their responsibilities,just take longer to address them (i know,a lot longer
)
again i may be misunderstanding ,but he also says they are looking for a restructuring of the repayments ,which obviously means some form of deferment,i do not get the impression they are seeking to walk away from their responsibilities,just take longer to address them (i know,a lot longer
)
Andrew[MG] said:
The four of us all got roofied that night and have no idea how we got home. The only harm done was a £2k credit card bill and no bodily harm (that anyone would admit). It's made for a pretty good story over the years.
st - sad to say that you are not the only ones that I have heard about that happening to. There is a very serious side to the underbelly of Tokyo nightlife....fblm said:
tumble dryer said:
Finally. It’s ALL funny money. The money doesn’t actually matter one jot. It’s a power/control/keep the status quo (jobs for the boys) bag of $hite, bull$hit bks.
ks.
sounds like you understand the situation just perfectly!SilverSixer said:
Clegg didn't win the election. What makes you think he had any chance of implementing what he wanted? That he has achieved anything at all is commendable. And he has.
Clegg is a disgrace to his political party. He given a referendum on voting reform. He then chose to propose what was seen as one of the worst possible PR option. But one which gave the LD the greatest number of seats. As a result he lost the support of most who where in favour of a change and then lost the referendum. If was a once in a life chance and he blew it because of personal gain.
Having lost the referendum he then reneged on coalition agreement to implement boundary reform and reduce the number of MP's because of the potential effect on his party. So we now have a distinctly unfair voting system.
Is that enough?
Mrr T said:
SilverSixer said:
Clegg didn't win the election. What makes you think he had any chance of implementing what he wanted? That he has achieved anything at all is commendable. And he has.
Clegg is a disgrace to his political party. He given a referendum on voting reform. He then chose to propose what was seen as one of the worst possible PR option. But one which gave the LD the greatest number of seats. As a result he lost the support of most who where in favour of a change and then lost the referendum. If was a once in a life chance and he blew it because of personal gain.
Junior partners do not call the shots.
Let's look at the new Greek government: Syriza is being supported by a bunch of right wingers with whom they have virtually nil in common, in a coalition with them. Do we think the junior party will get anything they want through the Greek Parliament? Or will they simply get the anti-austerity measures they want as they agree with Syriza on that one, and perhaps be thrown the odd bone or two if they're lucky in addition to ensure their continued support? Will this make them liars and cretins, or would they simply be accepting the reality of life as junior partners in government? Will their actions be seen as responsible in ensuring a stable an effective government, even if most of that government's policy is against their "promises", or will they be written of as self-interested jokers and a disgrace to their party?
Mrr T said:
SilverSixer said:
Clegg didn't win the election. What makes you think he had any chance of implementing what he wanted? That he has achieved anything at all is commendable. And he has.
Clegg is a disgrace to his political party. He given a referendum on voting reform. He then chose to propose what was seen as one of the worst possible PR option. But one which gave the LD the greatest number of seats. As a result he lost the support of most who where in favour of a change and then lost the referendum. If was a once in a life chance and he blew it because of personal gain.
Having lost the referendum he then reneged on coalition agreement to implement boundary reform and reduce the number of MP's because of the potential effect on his party. So we now have a distinctly unfair voting system.
Is that enough?
Borghetto said:
I'm just ploughing through today's pressconference in Berlin. Schauble stated that the German Landes (states) had offered to send Greece 500 tax inspectors/collectors - oddly Greece declined. For those interested it's about 15 minutes into the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlbJHSsnOBs
As much as anything, I imagine the Greeks don't want to explain how tens of German tax collectors have 'disappeared' or, worse yet, been gunned down with WW2 German arms. (Legend has it that the Cretan hillbillies still have hoards of guns and ammunition they captured from the occupying forces.)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlbJHSsnOBs
There are proper no-go areas for police, let alone tax inspectors: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/g...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/gre...
SilverSixer said:
Mrr T said:
SilverSixer said:
Clegg didn't win the election. What makes you think he had any chance of implementing what he wanted? That he has achieved anything at all is commendable. And he has.
Clegg is a disgrace to his political party. He given a referendum on voting reform. He then chose to propose what was seen as one of the worst possible PR option. But one which gave the LD the greatest number of seats. As a result he lost the support of most who where in favour of a change and then lost the referendum. If was a once in a life chance and he blew it because of personal gain.
Junior partners do not call the shots.
The referendum and the PR option was under the coalition agreement completely in the hands of the idiot Clegg. There was never any suggestion of Tories trying to influence the decision of the PR option. I am sure if they had Clegg would have moaned to everyone.
Mrr T said:
SilverSixer said:
Mrr T said:
SilverSixer said:
Clegg didn't win the election. What makes you think he had any chance of implementing what he wanted? That he has achieved anything at all is commendable. And he has.
Clegg is a disgrace to his political party. He given a referendum on voting reform. He then chose to propose what was seen as one of the worst possible PR option. But one which gave the LD the greatest number of seats. As a result he lost the support of most who where in favour of a change and then lost the referendum. If was a once in a life chance and he blew it because of personal gain.
Junior partners do not call the shots.
The referendum and the PR option was under the coalition agreement completely in the hands of the idiot Clegg. There was never any suggestion of Tories trying to influence the decision of the PR option. I am sure if they had Clegg would have moaned to everyone.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_20...
Anyway, the Greek minority right wing party in their new government. Responsible, pragmatic junior partners or liars and promise breakers? Which will it be?
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