Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]

Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]

Author
Discussion

Andy Zarse

10,868 posts

246 months

Tuesday 3rd March 2015
quotequote all
Art0ir said:
PRTVR said:
But the German's are nothing but logical, paying to update infrastructure makes sense, paying people to retire at 50 less so.

I have to agree that our politicians will not be able to deliver a good deal, part of the problem is they are so pro the EU, why should the EU concede any ground when the people negotiating are desperate to stay in the EU.
German infrastructure is crumbling and they refuse to borrow at negative interest rates because of political and economic dogma.

The Germans are many things a lot of the time; but logical all of the time, they are not.
JPM reporting EZ base rate could fall to minus 3%. Poor old Schaubel must be going absolutely bananas! smile

http://app.handelsblatt.com/finanzen/us-grossbank-...

Steffan

10,362 posts

227 months

Tuesday 3rd March 2015
quotequote all
Andy Zarse said:
Art0ir said:
PRTVR said:
But the German's are nothing but logical, paying to update infrastructure makes sense, paying people to retire at 50 less so.

I have to agree that our politicians will not be able to deliver a good deal, part of the problem is they are so pro the EU, why should the EU concede any ground when the people negotiating are desperate to stay in the EU.
German infrastructure is crumbling and they refuse to borrow at negative interest rates because of political and economic dogma.

The Germans are many things a lot of the time; but logical all of the time, they are not.
JPM reporting EZ base rate could fall to minus 3%. Poor old Schaubel must be going absolutely bananas! smile

http://app.handelsblatt.com/finanzen/us-grossbank-...
I am bound to say I do have some sympathy with Mr Schaubel. Negative interest rates are an investment concept that seems to me to be right out of the Wizard of Oz books. I cannot really get to grips with them. Requiring investors to pay you money in order to invest in your Bank seems to me to be perilously close to economic madness. But as a matter of fact that is the position currently in some economies. It is, I think, a reflection of the lack of trust and credibility generally, In the actual financial strength of some economies, that causes absolute security and the guaranteed return of the investment, itself, to be rearded as of much greater value than obtaining any interest on that investment?

I would suggest that this does in fact underline the extent to which the markets are becoming concerned about the security of Banks and therfore an absolute certainty of achieving the return of a secured deposit is of much greater value than achieving any actual interest on that deposit? I am no international banking man and I would be interested to hear what others think of these developments? Seems to me this really does beg the question of whether there is international acceptance of the reality of the Banking sector security?

As I said earlier Wizard of Oz stuff to me! I must congratulate Andy Zarse for the information. However it has tested my German way past my comfort zones. Italian and French I can manage to an limited extent. German now? Please!


Edited by Steffan on Tuesday 3rd March 22:07

Andy Zarse

10,868 posts

246 months

Tuesday 3rd March 2015
quotequote all
Andy Zarse in 2011 said:
... An example of such problems with the losses on credit default swaps at Erste Bank... Austrian taxpayers will be hoping that there are no further such surprises.
Damn I'm good! smile finally the Swiss franc mortgage have caught up with Austria.

The news from Corinthia is not so spiffing so far as banking goes with the bonds written by the local authority about to be called in. What I am interested to know is what have all the accountants and wind-up experts been doing at Heta for their money for the last three and a half years?

Snow's good though smile.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11447...



Edited by Andy Zarse on Wednesday 4th March 07:53

hidetheelephants

23,731 posts

192 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
Walford said:
Should the PIGS include France? maybe F,PIGS

LongQ

13,864 posts

232 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
hidetheelephants said:
Walford said:
Should the PIGS include France? maybe F,PIGS
PFIGS surely.

As in "Don't give a PFIG" ... and with a hat tip to the CAP that has kept some of them functioning for years.

Gargamel

14,957 posts

260 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all

Interesting article today with some very scary number in it - Jeremy Warner in the Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeremy-...

China’s total indebtedness has quadrupled since 2007 to $28 trillion, according to estimates by McKinsey. At 282pc of GDP, the debt burden is now bigger, relative to output, that the US.

Essentially it is an argument for a Global Default and reset of the debt clocks, would be a good time to rebase a few currencies as well. Great in theory, too much politics.

But just to take a John Lennon style position. Imagine all the debts in the world written off... it isn't hard to do.

I apreciate my mortgage lender might be upset, but I reckon they could get over it smile

Claudia Skies

1,098 posts

115 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
Gargamel said:
Essentially it is an argument for a Global Default and reset of the debt clocks, would be a good time to rebase a few currencies as well. Great in theory, too much politics.
I think you'll find that's exactly what Communism was all about.

Axionknight

8,505 posts

134 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
Communism was about resetting global debt and starting again!?

Gargamel

14,957 posts

260 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
Axionknight said:
Communism was about resetting global debt and starting again!?
I thought it was about tractor production ? On noes, am so confused. smile

Claudia in patronising comments shock.




Axionknight

8,505 posts

134 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all

Gargamel said:
I thought it was about tractor production ? On noes, am so confused. smile

Claudia in patronising comments shock.
Digging shallow canals and extolling them as engineering feats, I thought. Or perhaps mining 17 times your alloted coal quota for the day.

maffski

1,866 posts

158 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
Gargamel said:
I apreciate my mortgage lender might be upset, but I reckon they could get over it smile
They'll be fine, after all it won't have been their money they lent you...

And growing up I had a USSR radio, brilliant thing, built like a tank and probably still working now. The factory built great radios, and was very efficient at it because that's all they did. Of course everybody in Russia already had a radio but the factory did what it is efficient at, so it made more radios.

CrutyRammers

13,735 posts

197 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
LongQ said:
Is this pure theatre?

Syriza vs. Spain and Portugal?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31696596
"Not the done thing?"
Funny, slagging off the UK seems quite the EU sport if Junkers and his ilk are any example.

GlenMH

5,203 posts

242 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
The Alex cartoon in the Torygraph is bang on, as usual: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/alex/?cartoon=1...

Steffan

10,362 posts

227 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
GlenMH said:
The Alex cartoon in the Torygraph is bang on, as usual: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/alex/?cartoon=1...
A pretty fair representation of the reality of the insolvency of Greece and perhaps even more accurately the absolute lack of concern amongst those ought to be concerned for Greece, and the consequential damage to the EU, but whose primary concern is instead looking after themselves. Including many of the Troika members, all the EU leaders and all the EU Bureauacrats.

The fundamental nonsense in ths fiasco is that the EU are pretending that Greee can recover and still lending Greece billions, by the week, whist being fully aware that recovery for Greece is in reality totally impossible. Because by doing this the EU leaders can maintain ther stage strutting lifestyles and remain right upon the gravy train that EU politics have become. This is going to end with tragedy for Greece. Followed by one heck of a kerfuffle within the seriously damaged and challenged EU.


Claudia Skies

1,098 posts

115 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
Axionknight said:
Communism was about resetting global debt and starting again!?
Communism - is based on the idea that there are two major social classes: the workers who make up a majority of society and the capitalist owners who derive profit from employing the workers through private ownership of the means of production.

By definition, "debt" is a capitalist concept. Anyone who talks about re-setting debt is in essence talking about Communism. In other words, nationalisation without compensation.

LongQ

13,864 posts

232 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
Steffan said:
GlenMH said:
The Alex cartoon in the Torygraph is bang on, as usual: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/alex/?cartoon=1...
A pretty fair representation of the reality of the insolvency of Greece and perhaps even more accurately the absolute lack of concern amongst those ought to be concerned for Greece, and the consequential damage to the EU, but whose primary concern is instead looking after themselves. Including many of the Troika members, all the EU leaders and all the EU Bureauacrats.

The fundamental nonsense in ths fiasco is that the EU are pretending that Greee can recover and still lending Greece billions, by the week, whist being fully aware that recovery for Greece is in reality totally impossible. Because by doing this the EU leaders can maintain ther stage strutting lifestyles and remain right upon the gravy train that EU politics have become. This is going to end with tragedy for Greece. Followed by one heck of a kerfuffle within the seriously damaged and challenged EU.
This Alex cartoon from a few days ago seems pertinent on a broader front ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/alex/?cartoon=1...

Is it possible that the Bank and Traders could possibly have seriously manipulated so many things so much for so long without the politicians being in on the shenanigans in one form or another?

The policians will say that it was of course. It protects them and their reputations.

On the other hand since they appoint the same banks and authorities as well paid advisers through the various flavours of "Civil Service", that must also make them look remarkably inept bordering on criminally stupid. In fact with their apparent insistence in look backwards rather than forwards, today's example being the rather pointless grandstanding from Miliband Tendency w/r Turing, have they now realised that their comfortable retirement might be interrupted by "Historic" investigations into malpractice based on future re-interpretations of history?

Hmm, well, probably not given their show of blatant ineptness in recent times.

It's all a game. Probably best not to think that life has any serious component to it.

Axionknight

8,505 posts

134 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
Claudia Skies said:
Communism - is based on the idea that there are two major social classes: the workers who make up a majority of society and the capitalist owners who derive profit from employing the workers through private ownership of the means of production.

By definition, "debt" is a capitalist concept. Anyone who talks about re-setting debt is in essence talking about Communism. In other words, nationalisation without compensation.
Uhuh......

rovermorris999

5,195 posts

188 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
Claudia Skies said:
Communism - is based on the idea that there are two major social classes: the workers who make up a majority of society and the capitalist owners who derive profit from employing the workers through private ownership of the means of production.

By definition, "debt" is a capitalist concept. Anyone who talks about re-setting debt is in essence talking about Communism. In other words, nationalisation without compensation.
You are Dave Spart AICMFP

Walford

2,259 posts

165 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
Not really sure i get the neg interest rate thing,

is it you put xx Euro in a bank in Berlin, and in a few years time, after the PIGS have gone, you get xxDM or Euro2 back

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
Gargamel said:
Essentially it is an argument for a Global Default and reset of the debt clocks, would be a good time to rebase a few currencies as well. Great in theory, too much politics.
Great in theory? Are you serious? Someone owns all that debt. You just bankrupted every pension fund, insurance company and bank. Where does your food come from? The looting would start within hours.