Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]
Discussion
Mermaid said:
Steffan said:
.. This has become an outright Ponzi scheme which can never have any place in politics. Or indeed in any other form of business!
Alas this Ponzi is state sponsored.The fact that we are discussing this nonsense and describing it correctly as a Ponzi scheme despite the best efforts of the EU to hide the deliberate misrepesentation from the start of this affair effectively gives the game away. Totally. Three years ago the EU was proudly provcaiming this "Solution" as the answer to the ovious and apparent total insolvency of Greece.
Three years later this has created and an even more debt loaded even more insolvent and unsustainable economy in Greece.
This can only end one way bcause Greece never could afford to be in this union, still cannot afford to be in this union and never will be able afford to be in this union. The Billions thrown away in this fiasco will fall upon the solvent EU states because they are the only ones who can afford the loss. Fact of life in Insolvency.
Unfair? Yes! Unjust? Certainly! Unrepresented? Undoubtedly.! Deliberately Msrepresented? Without question! Totally wrong? Absolutely! Insolvency can have that effect. Rights and wrongs do not matter. The Creditors always lose out.
The EU taxpayers are the ultimate Creditors. The EU Taxpayers are going to lose out. Doubly by the looks of things because the EU Taxayers will have to pay all the costs of this mess being cleaned up and all the costs of untangling the mess repairing the loss of financial credibility to the EU and any prosecutions that are needed. And all the costs of the defences in those trials. And all the costs of trying to minimise the consequences to the EU and in seeking to prevent a massive Domino collapse involving the other failing states within the EU in financial collapse. Who will all immediately come under severe scrutiny and financial pressure following this disaster.
That's what Ponzi schemes do. State sponsored Ponzi schemes are rare hence the horrendous financial consequences.
Andy Zarse said:
Austria solvent?
I'll admit to having completely missed the whole Austria debacle save for your posts here... now it seems the rest of the media is catching up with AZ. 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeremy-...
fblm said:
Andy Zarse said:
Austria solvent?
I'll admit to having completely missed the whole Austria debacle save for your posts here... now it seems the rest of the media is catching up with AZ. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeremy-...
I'm slightly surprised the Austrians didn't realise this, they're normally so meticulous about such trivial details.
Poor old Fin Min Schelling must have called the SNB governor every arschloch under the sun when they pulled the Euro peg! 
Andy Zarse said:
Lending 100% mortgages denominated in CHF to Hungarian and Bulgarian house buyers will do this to a bank.
But look at the interest rates! You seriously have to wonder WTF, anyone at the bank selling this s
t, the regulators for letting them sell this st and the people buying this st, were actually thinking. Ridiculous.fblm said:
I'll admit to having completely missed the whole Austria debacle save for your posts here... now it seems the rest of the media is catching up with AZ.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeremy-...
Its not the first time its been heard here first!http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeremy-...
G
fblm said:
But look at the interest rates! You seriously have to wonder WTF, anyone at the bank selling this st, the regulators for letting them sell this st and the people buying this st, were actually thinking. Ridiculous.
The same malaise is why blind banker greed,self effacing market manipulating thieving bt, the regulators for letting them sell this st and the people buying this st, were actually thinking. Ridiculous.ds yet more endemic corporate fraud much like the EU,they are all as bad always the same when the children are in charge of said sweet shop(s)The chickens always return.G
Claudia Skies said:
You're learning at last!
To say that your posting style is patronising, is a rank understatement. Why be such an arse ?
Anyway - back on topic, I see the Greeks have finally lost it, threatening Europe that they will give Visa's to ex IS fighters
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-...
Oh dear, can't imagine them winning may friends now. It is just rank blackmail.
Gargamel said:
To say that your posting style is patronising, is a rank understatement.
Why be such an arse ?
Anyway - back on topic, I see the Greeks have finally lost it, threatening Europe that they will give Visa's to ex IS fighters
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-...
Oh dear, can't imagine them winning may friends now. It is just rank blackmail.
Daft, the govt will be overthrown before long - by the Junta, Turks, Allied forces, Germany...Why be such an arse ?
Anyway - back on topic, I see the Greeks have finally lost it, threatening Europe that they will give Visa's to ex IS fighters
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-...
Oh dear, can't imagine them winning may friends now. It is just rank blackmail.
fblm said:
Andy Zarse said:
Austria solvent?
I'll admit to having completely missed the whole Austria debacle save for your posts here... now it seems the rest of the media is catching up with AZ. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeremy-...
. It really does not look good for Austria does it? Every time another financial problem occurs within the EU more debt is loaded against the EU taxpayers. I cannot see how the EU can possibly deliver on the majority of the problems that are arising. Many of the already identified failing states are facing years of very high unemployment, penury and begging in the streets as ths goes on. Realistically I cannot see any of these states recovering in a reasonable timeframe. Gary 911 pointed out that the Ponzi scheme that this has become has continued fot three years. Ponzi scenes do sometimes continue for many years. Until the reality of the losses and fraud becomes apparent. Once Greece admits the reality of the failing economy that Greece has become and admits that recivery js inpossible whilst sadded with thus debt Greece borrowed the watershed of the realisation dawning amongst the EU solvent states and taxpayers will be dreadful to witness and impossible to manage. Most frauds work whilst confidence in the fraud is high. Once questions are asked the crunch suddenly becomes apparent.
Years ago I was involved in trying to resolve the Barlow Clowes fraud which also ran for years. It was apparent to me from the start of my involvement that the ridiculous rates of interest offered by BC could only be generated by fraud. Frauds work because the unsuspecting investors are dazzled by the glittering returns and huge growth rates offered. Ponzi schemes can run for many years. Certinly tthe Madhoff Ponzi scheme, ran for many years decades if I remeber correctly.
Unusually this fraud is being managed by a Government. But the consequences will be just the same. When the game is shown to be a fraud all the money that has been absorbed and the losers will be, in this case, the poor EU taxpayers within the remaining solvent states. A matter of time.
Gargamel said:
Gargs. That article contains the most outstanding solecism I've ever seen! Oborne was right, standards at the Telegraph really are in the pits. 
The latest news from the BBC suggets to me that the Greeks are up to their usual tricks
see: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31793145
Where the EU is upbraiding Greece once again for not actually offerring any conrstructive proposals concerning the ways Greece is going to actually meet its obligations under the troika agreement. Since this is a Sovialist government dedicated to achieving another debt reduction and further time for Greece to fail to make any economic progress and more loans from the EU because otherwise Greece cannot function, I am utterly at a loss to understand what the EU find odd in the Greek approach.
I have yet to see the slightest evidence that Greece has the slightest chance of any economic recoverly judging from the reality of all the economic indicators on the Greek economy. It seems to me that this government are simply taking all they can get from the EU and procrasinating and prevaricating on making any worthwhile changes to try and assist in the recovery of the Greek economy.
Thus does not surprise me because I cannot see Syriza making any worthwhile changes to the economy of Greece. Syriza just want to keep this going as long as they can, in which case prcrcrstination and prevarication can be the most effective methods of achieving that end. As yet i have not seen one shred if evidence that Syriza have any interest in solving this, just in keeping this going. But I am absolutely certain that Greece will default so perhaps my understanding of the reality of this is different.
see: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31793145
Where the EU is upbraiding Greece once again for not actually offerring any conrstructive proposals concerning the ways Greece is going to actually meet its obligations under the troika agreement. Since this is a Sovialist government dedicated to achieving another debt reduction and further time for Greece to fail to make any economic progress and more loans from the EU because otherwise Greece cannot function, I am utterly at a loss to understand what the EU find odd in the Greek approach.
I have yet to see the slightest evidence that Greece has the slightest chance of any economic recoverly judging from the reality of all the economic indicators on the Greek economy. It seems to me that this government are simply taking all they can get from the EU and procrasinating and prevaricating on making any worthwhile changes to try and assist in the recovery of the Greek economy.
Thus does not surprise me because I cannot see Syriza making any worthwhile changes to the economy of Greece. Syriza just want to keep this going as long as they can, in which case prcrcrstination and prevarication can be the most effective methods of achieving that end. As yet i have not seen one shred if evidence that Syriza have any interest in solving this, just in keeping this going. But I am absolutely certain that Greece will default so perhaps my understanding of the reality of this is different.
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