Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]
Discussion
. When do you think the Euro will actually end? What is scary is that all responses so far are socialist in nature, from the perspective of the 99.99%
Capitalism should be the realm of free markets and survival of the fittest but what we've seen is the opposite.
Bailed out debtors and creditors in 07/08 and policy since then to support more of the same.
Even now we have growth killing (long term) zirp or nirp and capital controls accelerating.
A failure of some type will occur now.
The ultimate question is will governmemts protect their electorates wealth, or their crony friends wealth?
Greece seem to have got the latter so far. Can we expect any different from our own politicians when the waves of deflation hit our shores.
Oh for a crystal ball to find where stays democratic and capitalist in 25yrs time and move there now. I've this bad feeling it's nowhere in Europe.
Capitalism should be the realm of free markets and survival of the fittest but what we've seen is the opposite.
Bailed out debtors and creditors in 07/08 and policy since then to support more of the same.
Even now we have growth killing (long term) zirp or nirp and capital controls accelerating.
A failure of some type will occur now.
The ultimate question is will governmemts protect their electorates wealth, or their crony friends wealth?
Greece seem to have got the latter so far. Can we expect any different from our own politicians when the waves of deflation hit our shores.
Oh for a crystal ball to find where stays democratic and capitalist in 25yrs time and move there now. I've this bad feeling it's nowhere in Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumbrel
As carts I note that they are connected with carrying manure, carry people to the guillotine, used for military purposes and are especially designed to be easily tipped.
That the same word is used for a cucking stool and a medieval balance for checking the weight of coins just seems to add relevance to the return of the concept in a modern form.
If a country - or group of countries - becomes destabilised by "events" all sort of things can change very rapidly. We see this all the time in the news and always think that it can't happen here. But maybe it can especially if the concept of devolution grows and the a "peaceful" social construct is destabilised by incomers, whether intentional invasion or simply an influx of people with alternative objectives and standards.
Put devolution and incomers together and there is a good chance that the social "glue", such as it is, loses its power.
I would not predict it but it would not surprise me if our kids have more to concern them within a generation or so than whether or not they can afford to buy a house and should they wait for the next iPhone release.
Thiose that run tumbrel manufacturing businesses might be in good shape though ....
As carts I note that they are connected with carrying manure, carry people to the guillotine, used for military purposes and are especially designed to be easily tipped.
That the same word is used for a cucking stool and a medieval balance for checking the weight of coins just seems to add relevance to the return of the concept in a modern form.
If a country - or group of countries - becomes destabilised by "events" all sort of things can change very rapidly. We see this all the time in the news and always think that it can't happen here. But maybe it can especially if the concept of devolution grows and the a "peaceful" social construct is destabilised by incomers, whether intentional invasion or simply an influx of people with alternative objectives and standards.
Put devolution and incomers together and there is a good chance that the social "glue", such as it is, loses its power.
I would not predict it but it would not surprise me if our kids have more to concern them within a generation or so than whether or not they can afford to buy a house and should they wait for the next iPhone release.
Thiose that run tumbrel manufacturing businesses might be in good shape though ....
LongQ said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumbrel
As carts I note that they are connected with carrying manure, carry people to the guillotine, used for military purposes and are especially designed to be easily tipped.
That the same word is used for a cucking stool and a medieval balance for checking the weight of coins just seems to add relevance to the return of the concept in a modern form.
If a country - or group of countries - becomes destabilised by "events" all sort of things can change very rapidly. We see this all the time in the news and always think that it can't happen here. But maybe it can especially if the concept of devolution grows and the a "peaceful" social construct is destabilised by incomers, whether intentional invasion or simply an influx of people with alternative objectives and standards.
Put devolution and incomers together and there is a good chance that the social "glue", such as it is, loses its power.
I would not predict it but it would not surprise me if our kids have more to concern them within a generation or so than whether or not they can afford to buy a house and should they wait for the next iPhone release.
Thiose that run tumbrel manufacturing businesses might be in good shape though ....
Interesting analogies. I can only agree with the concerns and probable consequences to the future.As carts I note that they are connected with carrying manure, carry people to the guillotine, used for military purposes and are especially designed to be easily tipped.
That the same word is used for a cucking stool and a medieval balance for checking the weight of coins just seems to add relevance to the return of the concept in a modern form.
If a country - or group of countries - becomes destabilised by "events" all sort of things can change very rapidly. We see this all the time in the news and always think that it can't happen here. But maybe it can especially if the concept of devolution grows and the a "peaceful" social construct is destabilised by incomers, whether intentional invasion or simply an influx of people with alternative objectives and standards.
Put devolution and incomers together and there is a good chance that the social "glue", such as it is, loses its power.
I would not predict it but it would not surprise me if our kids have more to concern them within a generation or so than whether or not they can afford to buy a house and should they wait for the next iPhone release.
Thiose that run tumbrel manufacturing businesses might be in good shape though ....
The media are starting to predict big trouble at the Milll which after 5 years of risible failure by the EU in failing to manage this mess is hardly surprising see:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11565...
http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/apr/...
Posted in time posted on the web order.
The crunch is coming IMO. There may be more stalling time bought by clever politicking within the machinations that pass for negotiations in this matter currently. But there is not one shred of actual evidence that the Greeks could ever have afforded to be within the Euro, nor that Greece will every be able to afford to be within the Euro. There may be some more handwringing and promises but Greece has totally failed to deliver on any of their promises. Which is precisely why the EU and Greece are in this jam together.
Clearly the parties would both like the recovery of Greece to be steadily progessing. Regrettably despite five years of continuous subsidy by the EU it is not. It is obvious that there will not be a recovery by Greece. In reality Greece became insolvent some years ago and all the hundreds of billions of Euros wasted by the EU demonstrated the ineffectiveness of this policy as each further tranche of yet more Billions were added to the lost causes pile.
Damage limitation and limiting the consequences to the other failing states within the EU should be the concern now for the EU. I do not think the crunch when it comes will be managed at all well by the EU judging on their performance to date with Greece. The EU could well experience significant criticism once the truth becomes undeniable, which it inevitably will. The EU can huff and puff but they EU has demonstrates comprehensively that they cannot save failing states, members of the Union, though they may be, like Greece. There are going to be some serious changes to the general perceptions abiut the EU in consequence.
It seems that Greece has blinked.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32493005
Or is this part of a game?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32493005
Or is this part of a game?
LongQ said:
It seems that Greece has blinked.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32493005
Or is this part of a game?
Well might one ask?http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32493005
Or is this part of a game?
First casualty in all this has been the truth! Who knows what nonsense will be dreamt up short term by the EU and Greece? Not me that's for certain.
Given the economic reality of the Greek tragedy however, medium term I cannot see this staggering on. There are so many obvious signs that Greece is bust that to attempt to deny that fact is becoming impossible. Whatever the EU cobble together short term this will end with Greece failing and exiting the EU.
There is no will to face reality in the Socialist world of Greek politicians. But reality will face Greece! Since no country is prepared to pay for Greece to remain within the EU and Greece cannot possibly continue within the EU without subsidy there can be only one result. Greece will exit!
Steffan said:
First casualty in all this has been the truth! Who knows what nonsense will be dreamt up short term by the EU and Greece? Not me that's for certain.
Given the economic reality of the Greek tragedy however, medium term I cannot see this staggering on. There are so many obvious signs that Greece is bust that to attempt to deny that fact is becoming impossible. Whatever the EU cobble together short term this will end with Greece failing and exiting the EU.
There is no will to face reality in the Socialist world of Greek politicians. But reality will face Greece! Since no country is prepared to pay for Greece to remain within the EU and Greece cannot possibly continue within the EU without subsidy there can be only one result. Greece will exit!
Greece sacrificed to give the eu time Given the economic reality of the Greek tragedy however, medium term I cannot see this staggering on. There are so many obvious signs that Greece is bust that to attempt to deny that fact is becoming impossible. Whatever the EU cobble together short term this will end with Greece failing and exiting the EU.
There is no will to face reality in the Socialist world of Greek politicians. But reality will face Greece! Since no country is prepared to pay for Greece to remain within the EU and Greece cannot possibly continue within the EU without subsidy there can be only one result. Greece will exit!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis...
As has been mused over here before, this was never about Greece, they were always bust, but there could be an attempt to control the fall out for the euro
Edited by Yabu on Friday 1st May 03:27
Edited by Yabu on Friday 1st May 03:28
Conspiracy hunters gather here...
...have just been to download HMRC's monthly exchange rates (what we use internally for all foreign currency transactions) and hey-ho there's no EURO country listed.
Not one.
Almost as if the euro has ceased to be...together with it's users.
Yes, I know it's just a glitch at HMRC (bless - so hard to issue a list of currencies once a month) and perhaps we'll get an update later...but meanwhile if I need to process a euro denominated invoice then I'll have to go back and adjust the rate later on (a right faff if there's more than a few).
...have just been to download HMRC's monthly exchange rates (what we use internally for all foreign currency transactions) and hey-ho there's no EURO country listed.
Not one.
Almost as if the euro has ceased to be...together with it's users.
Yes, I know it's just a glitch at HMRC (bless - so hard to issue a list of currencies once a month) and perhaps we'll get an update later...but meanwhile if I need to process a euro denominated invoice then I'll have to go back and adjust the rate later on (a right faff if there's more than a few).
Yabu said:
Steffan said:
First casualty in all this has been the truth! Who knows what nonsense will be dreamt up short term by the EU and Greece? Not me that's for certain.
Given the economic reality of the Greek tragedy however, medium term I cannot see this staggering on. There are so many obvious signs that Greece is bust that to attempt to deny that fact is becoming impossible. Whatever the EU cobble together short term this will end with Greece failing and exiting the EU.
There is no will to face reality in the Socialist world of Greek politicians. But reality will face Greece! Since no country is prepared to pay for Greece to remain within the EU and Greece cannot possibly continue within the EU without subsidy there can be only one result. Greece will exit!
Greece sacrificed to give the eu time Given the economic reality of the Greek tragedy however, medium term I cannot see this staggering on. There are so many obvious signs that Greece is bust that to attempt to deny that fact is becoming impossible. Whatever the EU cobble together short term this will end with Greece failing and exiting the EU.
There is no will to face reality in the Socialist world of Greek politicians. But reality will face Greece! Since no country is prepared to pay for Greece to remain within the EU and Greece cannot possibly continue within the EU without subsidy there can be only one result. Greece will exit!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis...
As has been mused over here before, this was never about Greece, they were always bust, but there could be an attempt to control the fall out for the euro
What will be interesting is if the EU idea goes silently or noisily into the history books.
My 2p, neo-commie land for a decade, with a bunch of member states looking more like soviet USSR for a time until the very end.
Dave
Pensioners start run on Greek banks as euro exit panic sets in
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/ar...
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/ar...
steveT350C said:
Pensioners start run on Greek banks as euro exit panic sets in
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/ar...
Can only read the first few lines due to the Times paywall, but get the gist of it. I still have respect for the integrity of Varoufakis - at least he has the balls to say it how it is!http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/ar...
YankeePorker said:
Can only read the first few lines due to the Times paywall, but get the gist of it. I still have respect for the integrity of Varoufakis - at least he has the balls to say it how it is!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/greek-debt-crisis-euro-exit-panic-as-pensioners-start-bank-run/story-fnb64oi6-1227329644372YankeePorker said:
662 gets my vote 
Please they can't kick the can further down the street can they
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32561967
Lending more is just madness surely?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32561967
Lending more is just madness surely?
gruffalo said:
Please they can't kick the can further down the street can they
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32561967
Lending more is just madness surely?
I keep saying it, it's funny money, ones and zeros on a computer screen.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32561967
Lending more is just madness surely?
They will continue making it up as they go along and change the rules to suit the mood of that particular day.
It's like politics: it doesn't make any difference.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff