Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]
Discussion
Andy Zarse said:
As it should being locked in a fixed currency union with a bunch of duffers who'll buy everything the Germans make to the detriment of their own firms who can't compete.
That said, if you speak to your average German, generally they don't feel that prosperous, so whilst the economy is in good health it's not entirely reflected by the populous IYSWIM.
That's what working hard and living within your means does for a country, maybe explains why Germany is one of few countries to do so...That said, if you speak to your average German, generally they don't feel that prosperous, so whilst the economy is in good health it's not entirely reflected by the populous IYSWIM.
Andy Zarse said:
That said, if you speak to your average German, generally they don't feel that prosperous, so whilst the economy is in good health it's not entirely reflected by the populous IYSWIM.
Even in the growth times up to 2008, what would the British people have said? "Yes I suppose things are OK - but taxes are too high, everything is getting more expensive, etc"?Andy Zarse said:
I was thinking about this the other day. Everyone raves about Merkel, what she's done and how strong and marvellous she is... but what exactly has she ever done? She's created an utter economic mess in half a continent, that's for sure, but other than that, what are her major domestic and international achievements? I honestly can't think of any of real significance. All she seems to do is say yah and nein to things and apply her rubber stamp.
She's done almost nothing about the nasty bear nextdoor except sell them cars. It seemed to me she got jolly cross and thought seriously about coming down on them like a ton of bricks after Vladimir shot down the Malaysian Airbus, but didn't do anything in the end because, you know, the gas...
Any thoughts?
She did a good job at closing down all their domestic energy sources? She's done almost nothing about the nasty bear nextdoor except sell them cars. It seemed to me she got jolly cross and thought seriously about coming down on them like a ton of bricks after Vladimir shot down the Malaysian Airbus, but didn't do anything in the end because, you know, the gas...
Any thoughts?
fblm said:
Gandahar said:
To cut a long story short they had a history of very bad practices and now that the European Wonga has got upset they don't want to pay the piper.
That's not letting off the people who lended them this money off, they are the ones to blame, due to pure greed based on bonus payments. So everyone is to blame, and now all options stink.
Normally it'd be boom and bust and boom again, and people forget the bust. Now it might be boom and bust. Bust for a long time.
Stop fecking lending too much money and therefore stop stoking bubbles. But no, that doesn't make individuals rich.....
You edited that? Did it make even less sense before. That's not letting off the people who lended them this money off, they are the ones to blame, due to pure greed based on bonus payments. So everyone is to blame, and now all options stink.
Normally it'd be boom and bust and boom again, and people forget the bust. Now it might be boom and bust. Bust for a long time.
Stop fecking lending too much money and therefore stop stoking bubbles. But no, that doesn't make individuals rich.....
Edited by Gandahar on Wednesday 1st July 20:02
Gecko1978 said:
I would not say the Greeks were in a credit bubble (world economey was in 2007). More its an ever deeper cycle of debt the Greeks are in
They have defaulted 8 times (at least) in modern times. Basically the national equivalent of a Wonga customer.Then again if Hedge Fund Managers aren't immune to utter stupidity then I don't hold out much hope for the Eurocrats!
LONDON, July 1 (Reuters) - Horizon Capital Management has suspended a hedge fund running almost a third of its capital in Greek assets because it cannot fully assess the value of holdings amid the country's deepening debt woes, a letter to investors obtained by Reuters showed.
ONE-THIRD!! Who is in charge of their Risk Management - Evil Knievel?!!
All that's wrong with an EU funded Greece in one article, although I suspect unintentionally;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33329624
Greece's 'richest' village, built it seems entirely on EU subsidy - changing their ways not because of any internal driver to do better or achieve more, but simply to maximise the free money from the EU.
Now, when the money taps are turned off all progress is stalled and the village returns to the state is was before they suckled on the teat of Mutti.
Just as Blair and Brown did here, the EU is creating client states who feed off it's largesse and even when it's quite obvious that the time has come to part company, they can only see the loss of other people's money and have no motivator to go it alone.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33329624
Greece's 'richest' village, built it seems entirely on EU subsidy - changing their ways not because of any internal driver to do better or achieve more, but simply to maximise the free money from the EU.
Now, when the money taps are turned off all progress is stalled and the village returns to the state is was before they suckled on the teat of Mutti.
Just as Blair and Brown did here, the EU is creating client states who feed off it's largesse and even when it's quite obvious that the time has come to part company, they can only see the loss of other people's money and have no motivator to go it alone.
fido said:
They have defaulted 8 times (at least) in modern times. Basically the national equivalent of a Wonga customer.
Then again if Hedge Fund Managers aren't immune to utter stupidity then I don't hold out much hope for the Eurocrats!
LONDON, July 1 (Reuters) - Horizon Capital Management has suspended a hedge fund running almost a third of its capital in Greek assets because it cannot fully assess the value of holdings amid the country's deepening debt woes, a letter to investors obtained by Reuters showed.
ONE-THIRD!! Who is in charge of their Risk Management - Evil Knievel?!!
Then again if Hedge Fund Managers aren't immune to utter stupidity then I don't hold out much hope for the Eurocrats!
LONDON, July 1 (Reuters) - Horizon Capital Management has suspended a hedge fund running almost a third of its capital in Greek assets because it cannot fully assess the value of holdings amid the country's deepening debt woes, a letter to investors obtained by Reuters showed.
ONE-THIRD!! Who is in charge of their Risk Management - Evil Knievel?!!
Its like the IMF and all the other bailout providers - its not actually their own money. They dont care, not really care. Now you and me, normal people would we lend money and bail our Greece or invest in Greek assets with our own money ? No feking way. why because we know that there would be a high chance of not getting it back. We care about our own money.
Thats the general problem with all governments - they talk about a few million or billion as if its nothing, an accounting process when they forget that its people like me and you actually paying that £10 or £100 or £10000 in our taxes that make up these millions/billions that are squandered and wasted.
Informed (?) guesswork about what happens to the rest of us on Grexit: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-01/...
Gecko1978 said:
bit I did not get was the second paragraph and then the last bit about a bubble.
I would not say the Greeks were in a credit bubble (world economey was in 2007). More its an ever deeper cycle of debt the Greeks are in
I see what you mean, you should have asked that question in reply, rather than the quickfire answer, derogatory Homer Simpson type response. Let me explain.I would not say the Greeks were in a credit bubble (world economey was in 2007). More its an ever deeper cycle of debt the Greeks are in
It was a bubble, the whole of the world was in a lending bubble which popped in 2008. Hence why Iceland got hit even though they probably didn't deserve to be as hit as hard as they did, and of course Greece got hit too, but due to their past deeds, and not having the financial might of the UK and US they are suffering more than we are now.
It's their own fault but we gave them the trough to feed at. They are suffering worse stomach pains as a result.
It's all down to too much lending, lending that is encouraged by people doing it getting rich at the personal level, that is what I am saying.
bye
Gandahar said:
Gecko1978 said:
bit I did not get was the second paragraph and then the last bit about a bubble.
I would not say the Greeks were in a credit bubble (world economey was in 2007). More its an ever deeper cycle of debt the Greeks are in
I see what you mean, you should have asked that question in reply, rather than the quickfire answer, derogatory Homer Simpson type response. Let me explain.I would not say the Greeks were in a credit bubble (world economey was in 2007). More its an ever deeper cycle of debt the Greeks are in
It was a bubble, the whole of the world was in a lending bubble which popped in 2008. Hence why Iceland got hit even though they probably didn't deserve to be as hit as hard as they did, and of course Greece got hit too, but due to their past deeds, and not having the financial might of the UK and US they are suffering more than we are now.
It's their own fault but we gave them the trough to feed at. They are suffering worse stomach pains as a result.
It's all down to too much lending, lending that is encouraged by people doing it getting rich at the personal level, that is what I am saying.
bye
Mastrict treaty laid out frame work: no bails outs ever.
EU politicians care more about the EU power than its people so disregard to suit.
Mark Benson said:
All that's wrong with an EU funded Greece in one article, although I suspect unintentionally;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33329624
Greece's 'richest' village, built it seems entirely on EU subsidy - changing their ways not because of any internal driver to do better or achieve more, but simply to maximise the free money from the EU.
Now, when the money taps are turned off all progress is stalled and the village returns to the state is was before they suckled on the teat of Mutti.
Just as Blair and Brown did here, the EU is creating client states who feed off it's largesse and even when it's quite obvious that the time has come to part company, they can only see the loss of other people's money and have no motivator to go it alone.
When I read that I instantly thought of an interview with the head of football in one of the West African nations (think it was Sierra Leone) saying how great Seb Blatter was and how much money he'd spent on development aid to the country.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33329624
Greece's 'richest' village, built it seems entirely on EU subsidy - changing their ways not because of any internal driver to do better or achieve more, but simply to maximise the free money from the EU.
Now, when the money taps are turned off all progress is stalled and the village returns to the state is was before they suckled on the teat of Mutti.
Just as Blair and Brown did here, the EU is creating client states who feed off it's largesse and even when it's quite obvious that the time has come to part company, they can only see the loss of other people's money and have no motivator to go it alone.
confused_buyer said:
OK, so now the IMF have come out and recommended that Greece needs €50bn and suspension of debt repayments for 20 years!
So, why, 2 days ago, were they happy to be part of a deal which did none of these things?
A sentence involving the words arse and elbow comes to mind.
Simple self-preservation. If you read anything the IMF has put out in the last few days they keep talking about Greek "arrears". There are a lot of implications of a default for the IMF and which they have implicitly admitted as using "arrears" avoids the dread word "default".So, why, 2 days ago, were they happy to be part of a deal which did none of these things?
A sentence involving the words arse and elbow comes to mind.
However, Madame L'Orange must realise she has landed the IMF, and even worse her own credibility, in a terrible pickle. She must be wondering about the EU32 billion Euros she lent Greece. Due to the economic recession, which of course was turned into a full-blown depression thanks to the plan implemented by the IMF, she now realises she ain't seeing a penny of it back and is mulling how to explain its largest ever arrears to its shareholders (the UK is a little over a 4% shareholder).
The people at the EU's ESM and EFSF must now be absolutely spluttering puce with rage (hopefully). These "unstable lifeboats" - which I was harping on about here nearly four years ago - will be totally swamped if they don't get paid back. They were punted to the public as risk free bail out mechanisms; the only risk was not getting paid back which apparently couldn't happen... err!
Then there's the ECB and their insistence on valuing all collateral at par. Well they're about to become "mark to market: nil" if the IMF get their way, and one of the columns on Mario's Excel spread sheet is about to cascade down in red.
So perhaps, as a matter of politics, L'Orange has done this to take charge of the agenda and so been quite clever by getting her digs in first? Whatever, things are going to get messy!
confused_buyer said:
OK, so now the IMF have come out and recommended that Greece needs €50bn and suspension of debt repayments for 20 years!
So, why, 2 days ago, were they happy to be part of a deal which did none of these things?
A sentence involving the words arse and elbow comes to mind.
So, why, 2 days ago, were they happy to be part of a deal which did none of these things?
A sentence involving the words arse and elbow comes to mind.
As I said earlier in the thread -
I said:
The wheels must stay on the EU party bus at all costs!!!!! They cannot allow their EU pet project to fail!
Mark Benson said:
Can ------------> down the road. Bet you 1,000,000,000 Drachma (or £1 50p 2p 1p).
And the same thing will keep happening over and over and over.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff