Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]

[MrBarry123]

williamp said:

Recent statement from the European Parliament prrsident

"...Ordinary citizens, pensioners, sick people or children in the kindergarten should not pay a price for the dramatic situation in which the country and the government brought the country now. Therefore a humanitarian programme is needed immediately and I hope that the Greek government will make in the next coming hours meaningful and constructive proposals allowing that it is meaningful and possible te renegotiate. If not, we are entering a very difficult and even dramatic time."

Humanitarian aid for Greece??

I think so. Whilst it may seem excessive, there is very little money in Greece and the country isn't working as it should; therefore the EP President makes a fair point. I don't think we'll see helicopters being flown over the country making airdrops however I wouldn't be surprised if emergency supplies (food, medical etc.) were provided over the next couple of days (maybe weeks) whilst an agreement is made.

On a VERY selfish note... I'm popping on holiday shortly and as such, am hoping the Euro takes a hammering tomorrow!

[MrBarry123]

Absolutely tonker.

The whole scenario plays into the hands of the "out" voters very nicely which, whilst a grave misinterpretation of the whole event, will still be argued as a reason to leave the EU by those of that mindset.

However... If the leading EU countries are able to somehow support Greece and thereby avoid its exit, even if only temporarily, they'll at least be able to mitigate some of the weight of this argument.

[Blib]

I wonder what the Greek General Staff make of these shenanigans? In the past, the military have stepped in whenever they felt it necessary to do so.

[Gargamel]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Not so sure Tonks, The Germans aren't very well disposed towards the Greeks now, I think Syriza and the EU would have reached a compromised by now if one was achievable.

Only a massive debt write will settle this, even the IMF agree.

The problem is the Greeks have their hand out, whilst spitting the EU in the Eye.

[tumble dryer]

Leithen said:

...
I've never understood the reluctance to countenance exit from the Euro. How else can the currency protect itself from being fundamentally undermined by situations like this?

Good point.

[gruffalo]

I have been thinking this as well, I seem to remember they have been rather right of the current government.

[Tony427]

In one of the news programmes today is was mentioned that the EU in the last 5 years had spent 240 billion Euros bailing Greece out.

With the Greek population in total just less than 11 million people, thats a lot of Euros per head to spend and none of it get to the people who have been complaining of 5 years of austerity.

Where's all the money gone?

I'm sure if we in the UK had had 1.7 trillion Euros thrown our way in the last 5 years we would have something tangible to show for it.

Cheers,

Tony

[slow_poke]

Tony427 said:

In one of the news programmes today is was mentioned that the EU in the last 5 years had spent 240 billion Euros bailing Greece out.

With the Greek population in total just less than 11 million people, thats a lot of Euros per head to spend and none of it get to the people who have been complaining of 5 years of austerity.

Where's all the money gone?

I'm sure if we in the UK had had 1.7 trillion Euros thrown our way in the last 5 years we would have something tangible to show for it.

Cheers,

Tony

It's gone to socialising the debt owed by the Greeks to the French and German banks. The banks are no longer on the hook for that febt, its been foisted on the EU citizens.

[eharding]

Blib said:

I wonder what the Greek General Staff make of these shenanigans? In the past, the military have stepped in whenever they felt it necessary to do so.

I don't think the upper echelons of the Greek military were involved last time round, it was down to a few Colonels and a junior General.

It would have to get a lot worse in the streets before it gets to that stage - Syriza have just had a huge popular mandate in the referendum, so anyone planning on parking tanks at the airport, the broadcasters, parliament and the ports would need to be sure that enough chaos had ensued, and the fabric of civil society had broken down to the extent that most folk would be pleased to see troops on the street to keep some semblance of peace.

I think they're some way off that yet. If the ECB plays hard-ball, and the banking system collapses completely, maybe a few weeks.

Obviously, at that point there might be a bit of a kerfuffle about a state under martial law being part of the EU, let alone the Eurozone.

[Luke Warm]

[davepoth]

Tony427 said:

In one of the news programmes today is was mentioned that the EU in the last 5 years had spent 240 billion Euros bailing Greece out.

With the Greek population in total just less than 11 million people, thats a lot of Euros per head to spend and none of it get to the people who have been complaining of 5 years of austerity.

Where's all the money gone?

I'm sure if we in the UK had had 1.7 trillion Euros thrown our way in the last 5 years we would have something tangible to show for it.

Cheers,

Tony

True. We've only had 1.1 trillion Euros thrown at us with nothing to show for it...

[anonymous-user]

tumble dryer said:

Leithen said:

...
I've never understood the reluctance to countenance exit from the Euro. How else can the currency protect itself from being fundamentally undermined by situations like this?

Good point.

Because a successful exit will pave the way for others, which will be the end of ever closer union of the EU. Don't forget it was envisaged from the very beginning that monetary union was only the beginning and that crisis would drive fiscal union. The reluctance is political not economic.

[anonymous-user]

slow_poke said:

It's gone to socialising the debt owed by the Greeks to the French and German banks. The banks are no longer on the hook for that febt, its been foisted on the EU citizens.

In 2010 French and German banks had 240bn euros in Greek debt? I find that very hard to believe.


ETA according to the NYT in 2010 all German financial institutions held 28bn euro of Greek debt. They still own about half of that. Your claims don't add up.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 6th July 03:10

[anonymous-user]

Gargamel said:

Not so sure Tonks, The Germans aren't very well disposed towards the Greeks now,

True but the subtlety is it spreads the pain to the EU not just the EZ.

[NicD]

fblm said:

slow_poke said:

It's gone to socialising the debt owed by the Greeks to the French and German banks. The banks are no longer on the hook for that febt, its been foisted on the EU citizens.

In 2010 French and German banks had 240bn euros in Greek debt? I find that very hard to believe.


ETA according to the NYT in 2010 all German financial institutions held 28bn euro of Greek debt. They still own about half of that. Your claims don't add up.

Edited by fblm on Monday 6th July 03:10

you do some half arsed reading and say that?

Try this:
http://www.eurodad.org/files/pdf/54bfcb0f01b0b.pdf

[jogon]

Tony427 said:

In one of the news programmes today is was mentioned that the EU in the last 5 years had spent 240 billion Euros bailing Greece out.

With the Greek population in total just less than 11 million people, thats a lot of Euros per head to spend and none of it get to the people who have been complaining of 5 years of austerity.

Where's all the money gone?

I'm sure if we in the UK had had 1.7 trillion Euros thrown our way in the last 5 years we would have something tangible to show for it.

Cheers,

Tony

Dave only managed to waste £375 billion protecting our precious financial institutions..

http://youtu.be/4l06RhFoLE4

[rovermorris999]

Dear Socialists,

This is what happens when you take belief in the magic money tree to its logical conclusion. Please learn from this and stop bleating when Osborne starts seriously chipping away at the deficit.

Yours sincerely

The Real World

[thainy77]

Varoufakis resigned? it was on the BBC website as breaking news but has disappeared now.

Perhaps don't label Euro ministers as terrorists?

[hornetrider]

thainy77 said:

Varoufakis resigned? it was on the BBC website as breaking news but has disappeared now.

Yep, he's walked.

[CrutyRammers]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

In fairness though, with the modern interpretation of "democracy" as it is, ordinary people are so far removed from the reality of what is going on I'm not sure you can blame them. Even if they could all read up on economics and understand the implications, it's not like they have a lot of choices on offer. It's the same here, "we" voted for a decade of labour and how many people could see what was going on under the bonnet? Almost nobody, certainly not the man on the clapham omnibus.
I don't think it's right blaming the greek people - we've only avoided the same situation through luck, really, not because "we" have made better choices.