Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]
Discussion
Mermaid said:
Gandahar said:
All options stink for them to be honest. Unless they make De Loreans over there still with mph speedo's.
Audi/Apple could move their production there & UK call centres could move away from India to Greece, the French appoint the Greeks to fight wars for them if necessary. That's a bit of joint enterprise. Anglo/American/Franco/German project.So £330billion at risk.
Or is it... Actually there is £89billion in special liquidity funds which if there was a Grexit and bust banks would be lost money too.
Isn't the question now for the IMF/ECB we have £420 billion at 100% risk /no chance of repayment if Greece leaves the Euro. So let's say £100billion is the best hope isn't that better for the creditors than a full loss plus all the unknown forthcoming issues? The remaining £320billion lessons learnt or put that into a 0% loan to be paid back over 200 years better than nothing.
Or is it... Actually there is £89billion in special liquidity funds which if there was a Grexit and bust banks would be lost money too.
Isn't the question now for the IMF/ECB we have £420 billion at 100% risk /no chance of repayment if Greece leaves the Euro. So let's say £100billion is the best hope isn't that better for the creditors than a full loss plus all the unknown forthcoming issues? The remaining £320billion lessons learnt or put that into a 0% loan to be paid back over 200 years better than nothing.
Foppo said:
We should be backing Greece more instead of acting like a toy poodle to Germany.Our top politicians are a gutless bunch.Maybe because when they are out of politics a top bank or Multinational job is waiting for them.
You only have to look at Tony Blair how he sold himself to the money people.We the people in Europe should all stand up against this lousy financial system which isn't working for the majority.Alternative banks should be their to serve people and be payed for their services.Not charging sky high interest rates for the money they lend out.Exspecially small bussines need more help and the multinationals should pay their taxes instead od evading their duties.
People on a very low income relying on subsidies because their bosses won't pay a living wage.
We need change but don't expect the politicans to make the change.
Ive got bad news for you - it IS working for the majority.You only have to look at Tony Blair how he sold himself to the money people.We the people in Europe should all stand up against this lousy financial system which isn't working for the majority.Alternative banks should be their to serve people and be payed for their services.Not charging sky high interest rates for the money they lend out.Exspecially small bussines need more help and the multinationals should pay their taxes instead od evading their duties.
People on a very low income relying on subsidies because their bosses won't pay a living wage.
We need change but don't expect the politicans to make the change.
911Gary said:
Yes exactly right a good friend posted it did not check for accuracy apologies if incorrect as I was busy earlier feel free to correct if an error and i will amend it or whatever?
G
G
So you posted a bunch of random facts to "attack the holier than thou brigade" but didn't even bother to check they were legit.Symbolica said:
It's almost as if homemade graphics on the internet with dubious figures and no sources cited are designed to deliberately misinform people...
It's the sort of thing that halfwit @laboureoin spends all day tweeting.
I do apologise I didn't study the whole list was in a rush this morning if I get time Ill try and correct it sorry chaps!It's the sort of thing that halfwit @laboureoin spends all day tweeting.
Mermaid said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Hope not. 
I have been thinking abut the possibilities of the concessions, that Greece might ask for in their proposal currently due to the EU? Given the pretty convincing refusal of the EU conditions, by Greece, I assume the Greek government feel empowered to seek a significaly less austere deal for Greece? Therefore as Gargamel suggested a while ago the Greeks may well seek a haircut on the outstanding debts. They have already one which was a full and final agreement made when this nonsence bail out started. So much for agreements. Perhaps a further 50%?
Then Greece may also seek a further substantial Internet free loan to top up their insolvent state of perhaps another £120 Billion on top of the money Greece as already had from the EU. From all the information about Greece, it certainly seems that Greece is hopelessly over borrowed and debt haircuts may (I repat MAY!) result in a sightly better chance of getting at least some of this money back?
The EU has allowed Greece to take the upper hand in this affair, and plainly Greece has snookered the EU with this referendum, which the EU simply have no answer to. Nor can the EU criticise such a democratic approach. Badly handled from the start, by EU, this demonstrates that the EU leaders may talk the talk but they cannot walk the walk. Quite riculous that the Greek minnow is leading the talks whilst defaulting on its debt and simply out manoevering the EU. I really do think the EU have lost control of this, if in fact the EU ever had control.
Steffan I wonder how much would have been saved if the hair cut had been when we first discussed it in I think vol1! the only way to avoid bankruptcy IMHO is as a sticky plaster a voluntary arrangement to repay a manageable lesser amount in a structured manner working with realistic attainable numbers.....which is obviously better than nothing,nothing being paradise in this situation!
Carrying blindly on has had terrible consequences for Greece and a few others now.
Carrying blindly on has had terrible consequences for Greece and a few others now.
911Gary said:
Vipers said:
If true, interesting.
I did post that earlier apparently the figures are ridiculous.......they do look it!The original poster has took it down now,that will teach me!
I've found this list (truncated) the figures seem to chime with my memory of the reports at the time.
Andy Zarse said:
The ECB have tonight frozen ELA again and even upped the collateral needed... That is one big squeeze on the Greek banks.
Here comes Hurst, he's got... some people are on the pitch...
Indeed this does significantly increase the pressure on Greece and the Greek people. But I think this may backfire on the EU (Wot again!) because the democratic vote in the Greek referendum must be respected by the EU. One way or another the EU is going to pay for the whoe of this mess. Because, quite simply, the Greeks will not pay and the Greeks cannot pay. Therefore the EU will pay. There is no one else. Here comes Hurst, he's got... some people are on the pitch...
Edited by Andy Zarse on Monday 6th July 21:18
The EU really cannot countenance the political fallout that would rebound on the EU if Greek implode because of the increasing pressure on Greece. Not whilst the negotiations continue. The EU already has a bloody nose. I am beginning to expect debt haircuts and permanent interest free loans to Greece. Given their abject penury there is no other way for Greece to recover, which is the backbone of the EU policy currently.
All getting very interesting. The EU have made a real hash of this nonsense and the EU is going to be, by far, the biggest loser.
The ECB have increased the haircut on the collateral Greece is putting up against the 89bn smackers that the ECB are putting into Greek Banks.
Two questions; firstly, what does the above mean and what exactly is Greece using as collateral and how does the ECB seize the collateral when Greece doesn't return the 89bn smackers?
Which leads me on to my second question; if the ECB have put 89bn into the Greek banks as a temporary measure to ease the liquidity crisis and they only have 0.5bn left in the banks now, presumably it's been disbursed to various mattresses and won't be coming back. But the ECB had a meeting today where they discussed pulling all of the ELA lending, why would they bother doing that when the money is no longer there?
Two questions; firstly, what does the above mean and what exactly is Greece using as collateral and how does the ECB seize the collateral when Greece doesn't return the 89bn smackers?
Which leads me on to my second question; if the ECB have put 89bn into the Greek banks as a temporary measure to ease the liquidity crisis and they only have 0.5bn left in the banks now, presumably it's been disbursed to various mattresses and won't be coming back. But the ECB had a meeting today where they discussed pulling all of the ELA lending, why would they bother doing that when the money is no longer there?
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