Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]
Discussion
I'm not sure how much of this he actually said at the time, but aside from that, this is a very good piece:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/g...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/g...
Megaflow said:
I'm not sure how much of this he actually said at the time, but aside from that, this is a very good piece:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/g...
I was just reading that. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/g...
Story from 1998 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/114861...
Love a bit of gloating.
Gargamel said:
I was just reading that.
Story from 1998 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/114861...
Love a bit of gloating.
I think he's on the money. Interesting times ahead although it may take a generation for it to happen.Story from 1998 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/114861...
Love a bit of gloating.
Rather than debating whether the euro is a good or a bad thing it would interesting to consider whether the UK would have benefitted from membership in the same way that a stronger economy such as Germany has benefitted, or suffered like the Greeks. There will always be winners and losers in a fixed currency union, how would it have affected us?
The same argument applies to our membership of the EU, for some of us it's a massive opportunity that we use to our advantage, to others it's an unwanted cost and source of bureaucracy. Whether or not it's an all round success matters not to me, it makes my business and personal life easier and more profitable, so all good from where I'm sitting. I guess Germany as a whole feels the same way about the EU in general and the euro in particular.
The same argument applies to our membership of the EU, for some of us it's a massive opportunity that we use to our advantage, to others it's an unwanted cost and source of bureaucracy. Whether or not it's an all round success matters not to me, it makes my business and personal life easier and more profitable, so all good from where I'm sitting. I guess Germany as a whole feels the same way about the EU in general and the euro in particular.
Hague was exactly right in 1998. Which seems a hell of a long time ago now. I suppose it was.
It's interesting if you can, to cast your mind back that far and remember the utter scorn poured over Hague's leadership by the media, the usual suspects in the CBI and the rest of the political establishment. He's done an interesting turn around job and entered the fold somehow.
It's interesting if you can, to cast your mind back that far and remember the utter scorn poured over Hague's leadership by the media, the usual suspects in the CBI and the rest of the political establishment. He's done an interesting turn around job and entered the fold somehow.
turbobloke said:
RYH64E said:
... our membership of the EU...Whether or not it's an all round success matters not to me, it makes my business and personal life easier and more profitable, so all good from where I'm sitting.
Who could possibly have guessed without being told 
RYH64E said:
Rather than debating whether the euro is a good or a bad thing it would interesting to consider whether the UK would have benefitted from membership in the same way that a stronger economy such as Germany has benefitted, or suffered like the Greeks. There will always be winners and losers in a fixed currency union, how would it have affected us?
Germany benefits from an artificially cheap Euro and a market of club medders which used the money tree to buy German automobiles. Money tree supplied courtesy of German banks amongst others.Would we have benefited from such a Ponzi scheme? Possibly. Would it still be a Ponzi scheme? Yes.
We don't need to look far (1992) to see the effect of locking in an artificially high exchange rate, and typically the pound has looked overpriced to the Euro. You go in at the wrong rate and you are toast.
DJRC said:
turbobloke said:
RYH64E said:
... our membership of the EU...Whether or not it's an all round success matters not to me, it makes my business and personal life easier and more profitable, so all good from where I'm sitting.
Who could possibly have guessed without being told RYH64E said:
Rather than debating whether the euro is a good or a bad thing it would interesting to consider whether the UK would have benefitted from membership in the same way that a stronger economy such as Germany has benefitted, or suffered like the Greeks. There will always be winners and losers in a fixed currency union, how would it have affected us?
The same argument applies to our membership of the EU, for some of us it's a massive opportunity that we use to our advantage, to others it's an unwanted cost and source of bureaucracy. Whether or not it's an all round success matters not to me, it makes my business and personal life easier and more profitable, so all good from where I'm sitting. I guess Germany as a whole feels the same way about the EU in general and the euro in particular.
All good from where you're sitting for now. See how your 'business' fares once the whole fiasco hits the buffers. Clearly you don't have the nouse to survive your own crisis. Anyone with any sense would be rushing to make sure they had no dependence whatsoever on EZ nations, even EU members.The same argument applies to our membership of the EU, for some of us it's a massive opportunity that we use to our advantage, to others it's an unwanted cost and source of bureaucracy. Whether or not it's an all round success matters not to me, it makes my business and personal life easier and more profitable, so all good from where I'm sitting. I guess Germany as a whole feels the same way about the EU in general and the euro in particular.
As for comparing the UK with Germany as 'strong' economies, well that about sums you up.
turbobloke said:
DJRC said:
turbobloke said:
RYH64E said:
... our membership of the EU...Whether or not it's an all round success matters not to me, it makes my business and personal life easier and more profitable, so all good from where I'm sitting.
Who could possibly have guessed without being told Hopefully the Telegraph won't mind me repeating this
''Parliament president Martin Schulz is asked by a journalist: "Aren't you afraid that by accepting the Greek narrative of the referendum, it means that more and more populist politicians will use referendums as a political weapon in budgetary issues."
Schulz replies that other MEPs have "raised exactly that problem".
"What will happen if there is a referendum in another country, putting in doubt a possible compromise with Greece? What will then happen? Therefore I think we are in a difficult situation''
Damned democracy!
''Parliament president Martin Schulz is asked by a journalist: "Aren't you afraid that by accepting the Greek narrative of the referendum, it means that more and more populist politicians will use referendums as a political weapon in budgetary issues."
Schulz replies that other MEPs have "raised exactly that problem".
"What will happen if there is a referendum in another country, putting in doubt a possible compromise with Greece? What will then happen? Therefore I think we are in a difficult situation''
Damned democracy!
It is interesting to read the comments of AJS , RYH64E, Gargamel, Rovermorris999 and DJRC on here and the many contributions from others on here and to be aware that such discusions offer more detailed and considered comments than the outpourings of the media on the web, generally.
The EU really have made a complete hash of this nonsense from the start. Five years of subsidy for Greece has resulted in Greece being bankrupt and hoplessly insolvent and literally with all the support they have had from the EU, still going absolutely nowhere economically. Greece is a dead duck whilst within a currency union they cannot possibly afford to remain within.
Perhaps worse, is that we are now seeing the ridiculous position where the insolvent Debtor, Greece, is dictating terms to the EU and the EU will be desperately seeking a way to meet the requirements of Greece without upsetting the apple cart of the other failing states. All carefully watching to see what happens next? All thoughts of costs and consequences have gone out of the window. The EU should never have been in this position and it is entirely the fault of the way the EU is run. Incompetent, lacking real vision, lacking real coherence, a textbook example of how not to run any organisation.
Angela Merkel, Hollande and all the other players within the EU are reduced to waiting on the decisions of the Greek Prime Minister which they will then agree to and try to find some way to actually make possible. They have lost the control of this affair. The Debtors have competely outfoxed the Creditors. I have seen this before,on occasion, but never on a scale like ths. The most powerful politicians waiting for a decision by an inexperience government of one of the smallest countries within the EU.
You could not make it up. But Greece have done just that and are the leaders of the pack in this affair. Madness.
The EU really have made a complete hash of this nonsense from the start. Five years of subsidy for Greece has resulted in Greece being bankrupt and hoplessly insolvent and literally with all the support they have had from the EU, still going absolutely nowhere economically. Greece is a dead duck whilst within a currency union they cannot possibly afford to remain within.
Perhaps worse, is that we are now seeing the ridiculous position where the insolvent Debtor, Greece, is dictating terms to the EU and the EU will be desperately seeking a way to meet the requirements of Greece without upsetting the apple cart of the other failing states. All carefully watching to see what happens next? All thoughts of costs and consequences have gone out of the window. The EU should never have been in this position and it is entirely the fault of the way the EU is run. Incompetent, lacking real vision, lacking real coherence, a textbook example of how not to run any organisation.
Angela Merkel, Hollande and all the other players within the EU are reduced to waiting on the decisions of the Greek Prime Minister which they will then agree to and try to find some way to actually make possible. They have lost the control of this affair. The Debtors have competely outfoxed the Creditors. I have seen this before,on occasion, but never on a scale like ths. The most powerful politicians waiting for a decision by an inexperience government of one of the smallest countries within the EU.
You could not make it up. But Greece have done just that and are the leaders of the pack in this affair. Madness.
Gargamel said:
Interesting to see Hollande leading the Doves, guess which countries banks have the most exposure to Greek debts?
I'm not sure on the French banks themselves, but the country has stumped up some 42 billion Euros via the bailout fund. They'll never see a penny, olive branch or no, IMO.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff