Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]

[Mermaid]

fblm said:

Steffan said:

The EU really do look the beaten side on this.

I have little sympathy for either Greece or the EU but it is nice to see Greece giving the EU a lesson in democracy.

Excellent. And if it all goes balls up, then anarchy will probably not be too far behind. Greek theatre - comedy or tragedy?

[RYH64E]

fblm said:

Steffan said:

The EU really do look the beaten side on this.

I have little sympathy for either Greece or the EU but it is nice to see Greece giving the EU a lesson in democracy.

At the end of the negotiating sessions the EU representatives go home to countries where the banks are open, there's food on the shelves in shops, and people have money to pay for good and services. The Greeks go home to a country that's on a downward spiral, with none of the facilities the rest of us take for granted, and where things will only get worse. I wouldn't say the Greeks are winning.

[don4l]

Vipers said:

If true, interesting.

Did you check out any of those "facts".

No, you didn't.

10 seconds on Google could have prevented you putting up the most cringeworthy post that I have ever seen.

For example, Barclays didn't receive any bailout at all.

Nobody received a £2 trillion bailout.

How could anyone believe such utter nonsense?

I suspect that you might actually believe that Labour are the party of the "working man".

[anonymous-user]

fblm said:

I have little sympathy for either Greece or the EU but it is nice to see Greece giving the EU a lesson in democracy.

Right. I'll try it with my bank tomorrow. 'we've had a vote and we're not going to pay the mortgage. To go against this is a violation of democracy ' The answer will be the same as that given to the great Greek negotiators I imagine,,

[Art0ir]

Jimboka said:

Right. I'll try it with my bank tomorrow. 'we've had a vote and we're not going to pay the mortgage. To go against this is a violation of democracy ' The answer will be the same as that given to the great Greek negotiators I imagine,,

They'll take your house because that's what was agreed. What collateral did Greek's creditors secure before lending to them as much as possible?

[MiniMan64]

Luke Warm said:

MiniMan64 said:

So the U.S. owes us £800 odd billion and we owe them £500 billion at a different rate of interest, doesn't that just mean they owe us £300 billion?

EFA.

Fair enough but we still owe them and they still owe us.

Can't we simplify this st out?

[EskimoArapaho]

So... Obama and Clinton REALLY don't want the Greeks to be set adrift. Maybe Merkel can use this opportunity to spread the risk even further?

[Steffan]

RYH64E said:

fblm said:

Steffan said:

The EU really do look the beaten side on this.

I have little sympathy for either Greece or the EU but it is nice to see Greece giving the EU a lesson in democracy.

At the end of the negotiating sessions the EU representatives go home to countries where the banks are open, there's food on the shelves in shops, and people have money to pay for good and services. The Greeks go home to a country that's on a downward spiral, with none of the facilities the rest of us take for granted, and where things will only get worse. I wouldn't say the Greeks are winning.

Fair point. The human consequences in this are appalling. Something we must not forget. The situation in Greece is quite horrendous for the Greek population and we must all recognise that fact.

However it would appear, on the face of it, that the EU is going to attempt to continue holding Greece within the EU, when by any reasonable assessement, Greece is totally insolvent and the EU is never going to be able to restore Greece to solvency. There is no solution in any of this except for the reality of the insolvency of Greece to be admitted snd recognised.

From that point perhaps progress might just become possible? The debts woud have to be be written off, but in reality there has been no real prospect of recovery for these long gone debts for many years. In this way Greece might just be able to gradually return towards solvency. The biggest tragedy in this nonsense from the EU is that currently, Greece is saddled with huge unaffordable debts. Once these start to be cancelled then the economy of Greece may slowly start to recover.

A major humanitarian support movement for Greece would need to be introduced. But at least there would be just a slight chance of recovery. Currently Greece has been pickled in aspic by the EU and there can be no prospects of recovery by Greece in that position. Reality time IMO.

[Steffan]

Well it would appear that the EU have given Greece until Sunday to resolve the matter.

See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33437797

I wonder.

The Greeks are definnitely playing this for all they can. Somehow I think a deal will be done. If it includes the debt write off then I cannot see how the EU can hope to make this work. Curiouser and curiouser........? The EU clearly want Greece to remain within the EU. If wishes came true.......?

[glazbagun]

Daz68 said:

If Greece can dictate a rescue package which looks like it could become a reality due to the fear in Europe then the next step would be who can become the big power player to step away from this mess and pull away from it. Germany perhaps? What's to say it is them that pull away and start the crumble when we all thought it would be the lesser nation.

Germany to leave the Euro? Wouldn't that simply lead to a strong Deutschmark and a weak Euro? I don't see how that would be in Germany's interests.

[Police State]

MiniMan64 said:

Axionknight said:

tescorank said:

I think we need to stock up on canned food.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696

7.3 trillion euros.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckin' hell

So the U.S. owes us £800 odd billion and we owe them £500 billion, doesn't that just mean they owe us £300 billion?

...but when everybody settles their bar bill, we still owe 153.8bn.

[tumble dryer]

Steffan said:

RYH64E said:

fblm said:

Steffan said:

The EU really do look the beaten side on this.

I have little sympathy for either Greece or the EU but it is nice to see Greece giving the EU a lesson in democracy.

At the end of the negotiating sessions the EU representatives go home to countries where the banks are open, there's food on the shelves in shops, and people have money to pay for good and services. The Greeks go home to a country that's on a downward spiral, with none of the facilities the rest of us take for granted, and where things will only get worse. I wouldn't say the Greeks are winning.

Fair point. The human consequences in this are appalling. Something we must not forget. The situation in Greece is quite horrendous for the Greek population and we must all recognise that fact.

However it would appear, on the face of it, that the EU is going to attempt to continue holding Greece within the EU, when by any reasonable assessement, Greece is totally insolvent and the EU is never going to be able to restore Greece to solvency. There is no solution in any of this except for the reality of the insolvency of Greece to be admitted snd recognised.

From that point perhaps progress might just become possible? The debts woud have to be be written off, but in reality there has been no real prospect of recovery for these long gone debts for many years. In this way Greece might just be able to gradually return towards solvency. The biggest tragedy in this nonsense from the EU is that currently, Greece is saddled with huge unaffordable debts. Once these start to be cancelled then the economy of Greece may slowly start to recover.

A major humanitarian support movement for Greece would need to be introduced. But at least there would be just a slight chance of recovery. Currently Greece has been pickled in aspic by the EU and there can be no prospects of recovery by Greece in that position. Reality time IMO.

Syriza recognise that reality; YV's extend and pretend sums it up perfectly.
The other side, not-so-much.

[Walford]

Will all be sorted by thursday

[Beati Dogu]

Steffan said:

Precisely my thoughts. Unmanageable problems mixed in with incompetence and self interest prioritising. I simply cannot see how Greece can continue to be regarded as solvent. But that is apparently the EU/IMF plan. Madness.

The EU are busting a gut to keep this rolling along and risking more and more money gambling that Greece will return to solvency. Not in five years, they haven't and I do not see how Greece can ever recover solvency. Every Euro spent by the EU on this nonsense has been thrown away into a bottomless pit.

What on earth for? Utter madness!

Madness? DAS IST SPARTA !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr56RTaFSq0

[RobinBanks]

Walford said:

Will all be sorted by thursday

We will see.

[Wills2]

It's about time for another recession, sky high asset prices, stocks have doubled since the last one and the circle continues.

[WelshChris]

Steffan said:

The EU are busting a gut to keep this rolling along and risking more and more money gambling that Greece will return to solvency. Not in five years, they haven't and I do not see how Greece can ever recover solvency.

How long is it since Greece were actually 'solvent'? - have they ever been?

[anonymous-user]

RYH64E said:

At the end of the negotiating sessions the EU representatives go home to countries where the banks are open, there's food on the shelves in shops, and people have money to pay for good and services. The Greeks go home to a country that's on a downward spiral, with none of the facilities the rest of us take for granted, and where things will only get worse. I wouldn't say the Greeks are winning.

I didn't say they were winning, there isn't a scenario where they 'win', DJRC pretty much nailed it previously. Germany has already won. Whatever you call it the referendum was a democratic rejection of the EU and the more often that happens the better IMO!

[turbobloke]

fblm said:

RYH64E said:

At the end of the negotiating sessions the EU representatives go home to countries where the banks are open, there's food on the shelves in shops, and people have money to pay for good and services. The Greeks go home to a country that's on a downward spiral, with none of the facilities the rest of us take for granted, and where things will only get worse. I wouldn't say the Greeks are winning.

I didn't say they were winning, there isn't a scenario where they 'win', DJRC pretty much nailed it previously. Germany has already won. Whatever you call it the referendum was a democratic rejection of the EU and the more often that happens the better IMO!

[Cobnapint]

Steffan said:

Well it would appear that the EU have given Greece until Sunday to resolve the matter.

See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33437797

Yes, this is it. The end game.

Radio 5 live this morning reporting that a top figure in the EU has said there will emphatically be no more deadlines after this one. The EU and creditors have had enough of Greece's antics.

If they can't table any better proposals by tomorrow night - Grexit plans will have to be initiated on Sunday.

So much for Greece playing a blinder.