Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]

[superlightr]

its not been highlighted here much but just to get this straight. UK contributes to these bail out funds/loans from the ECB and the emergency slush fund etc. So my taxes have already been used to pay Greece.

If another bailout/loan is done will MORE of my money/taxes go to Greece again?

I have presume that from our membership fees a % is paid into the ECB etc.

If this is kicked down the line by another few years there must be a case to answer that the ECB/Euro leaders were negligent and should be facing criminal/civil court action?

[RYH64E]

Digga said:

??e??e?? ????da ap? t?? ????pa??? f??a??

Or, in ordinary script:

Eléf_theri_ Elláda apó ti_n Ev_ro_païkí_ fylakí_

It's all Greek to me

[boxst]

I may have missed something but hasn't Tsipras just proposed more or less the same thing the referendum said 'no' to on Sunday? Apart from being a pointless delaying tactic, doesn't that mean he is more or less done in politics?

[davepoth]

boxst said:

I may have missed something but hasn't Tsipras just proposed more or less the same thing the referendum said 'no' to on Sunday? Apart from being a pointless delaying tactic, doesn't that mean he is more or less done in politics?

As I understand it the new bailout lasts longer than the previously offered one - and that gives more time to attempt to negotiate a new haircut. Tsipras is doing a good job given what he's working with.

[Mermaid]

boxst said:

I may have missed something but hasn't Tsipras just proposed more or less the same thing the referendum said 'no' to on Sunday? Apart from being a pointless delaying tactic, doesn't that mean he is more or less done in politics?

Yes. politics has little to do with facts & logic.

[Art0ir]

boxst said:

I may have missed something but hasn't Tsipras just proposed more or less the same thing the referendum said 'no' to on Sunday? Apart from being a pointless delaying tactic, doesn't that mean he is more or less done in politics?

The IMF seem pretty insistent on a haircut now. If he can pull that off he'll come back a victor.

[andy-xr]

Art0ir said:

The (US Headquartered) IMF seem pretty insistent on a haircut now. If he can pull that off he'll come back a victor.

Little bit of an edit for you.

[Axionknight]

Haircuts for all! Who is next on the list to throw their toys out of the pram and get their own way after vastly overspending?

My mortgage is vast, it must be somebody elses fault! Little help over here???

[RYH64E]

Axionknight said:

Haircuts for all! Who is next on the list to throw their toys out of the pram and get their own way after vastly overspending?

My mortgage is vast, it must be somebody elses fault! Little help over here???

Repayment in full hasn't been a viable option for a long while, creditors have a choice of haircut or default, imo. Lending money to a bankrupt isn't wise if you want to get your money back.

[Luke Warm]

fblm said:

Luke Warm said:

Total private and public debt is about the same as total household wealth net of debt.

No it isn't. In the UK Government debt is about 1.5tr, private debt is about the same and total household wealth net of debt is about 8tr.

[Digga]

Luke Warm said:

fblm said:

Luke Warm said:

Total private and public debt is about the same as total household wealth net of debt.

No it isn't. In the UK Government debt is about 1.5tr, private debt is about the same and total household wealth net of debt is about 8tr.

Wealth still looks greater than debt on that basis.

[Luke Warm]

Digga said:

Wealth still looks greater than debt on that basis.

Only by around £100bn.

The £8tr figure includes things like machinery, weapons systems, and corporate buildings.

Edited by Luke Warm on Friday 10th July 12:07

[Art0ir]

Axionknight said:

Haircuts for all! Who is next on the list to throw their toys out of the pram and get their own way after vastly overspending?

My mortgage is vast, it must be somebody elses fault! Little help over here???

That's how capitalism works.

Negotiations between creditors and debtors happen every day in all areas of the private and public sectors.

[Axionknight]

Art0ir said:

Axionknight said:

Haircuts for all! Who is next on the list to throw their toys out of the pram and get their own way after vastly overspending?

My mortgage is vast, it must be somebody elses fault! Little help over here???

That's how capitalism works.

Negotiations between creditors and debtors happen every day in all areas of the private and public sectors.

Oh well then, crisis averted.

[gofasterrosssco]

So assuming an agreement is forthcoming, and Greece stays in the Euro, what will happen in the future - will the distribution of wealth still continue to flow, or will Greece be forever cut off from EU support for aspects like infrastructure development funds..?

That to me sounds like the start of a two-tier EU, which perhaps it should have been to start with..

[Art0ir]

Axionknight said:

Art0ir said:

Axionknight said:

Haircuts for all! Who is next on the list to throw their toys out of the pram and get their own way after vastly overspending?

My mortgage is vast, it must be somebody elses fault! Little help over here???

That's how capitalism works.

Negotiations between creditors and debtors happen every day in all areas of the private and public sectors.

Oh well then, crisis averted.

Are you genuinely ignorant as to how this whole money things work or just being obtuse for kicks?

[anonymous-user]

Luke Warm said:

Digga said:

Wealth still looks greater than debt on that basis.

Only by around £100bn.

The £8tr figure includes things like machinery, weapons systems, and corporate buildings.

Edited by Luke Warm on Friday 10th July 12:07

In your debt figures of 500% GDP you are including financial, ie bank debt and comparing that with household wealth. To make the comparison fair you either need to look at household debt to household wealth or all debt (public and private) to all wealth (public and private). You are comparing all debt with private wealth. I have never seen any kind of estimate of public wealth and am not sure how you would even start estimating it.

[Axionknight]

Art0ir said:

Axionknight said:

Art0ir said:

Axionknight said:

Haircuts for all! Who is next on the list to throw their toys out of the pram and get their own way after vastly overspending?

My mortgage is vast, it must be somebody elses fault! Little help over here???

That's how capitalism works.

Negotiations between creditors and debtors happen every day in all areas of the private and public sectors.

Oh well then, crisis averted.

Are you genuinely ignorant as to how this whole money things work or just being obtuse for kicks?

Yeah, I don't have a clue - teach me, go on, impress us all, oh wise one.

[Borghetto]

fblm said:

In your debt figures of 500% GDP you are including financial, ie bank debt and comparing that with household wealth. To make the comparison fair you either need to look at household debt to household wealth or all debt (public and private) to all wealth (public and private). You are comparing all debt with private wealth. I have never seen any kind of estimate of public wealth and am not sure how you would even start estimating it.

A good example of this is Faslane. We were repeatedly told how relocating it would cost billions - so is that how it might be valued as an asset. Similarly, can you put a valuation on all the training carried out by public bodies. I hope most people would feel better off than 25 years ago, can a valuation be put on intangibles like feeling happier?

[Camoradi]

Borghetto said:

A good example of this is Faslane. We were repeatedly told how relocating it would cost billions - so is that how it might be valued as an asset. Similarly, can you put a valuation on all the training carried out by public bodies. I hope most people would feel better off than 25 years ago, can a valuation be put on intangibles like feeling happier?

I would be happy to provide you with a happiness valuation for £250.

Meanwhile in Greece....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33473779

I hear the sound of boots being laced up...special can kicking boots