Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]
Discussion
EskimoArapaho said:
DJRC said:
Normally the random bloke off the net line is a viable come back. To me, on this thread, on this subject - esp when my profile still says Zurich! - then no. As most on here will confirm whoring myself around Europe, living in said places and reporting back on what's happening across the Manche is kinda what I do. Steffan knows the Lucca prices as he has a gaff out there, Garg does a fair bit in Zurich and Zarse knows his Dutch s
t also. We ARE the first hand knowledge whether you like it or not.
Yes, you're the bloke who lands in one country and within about 2 days starts pontificating about how it works, or what's wrong with it. Unsurprisingly, these observations always seem to fully support your world view and your selfishness. t also. We ARE the first hand knowledge whether you like it or not.You do this repeatedly, and with some wit. But no authority.
You don't get a choice when you do this. You HAVE to get under the skin of a place quickly, get a feel of the culture and learn the dos, donts and what nots. Otherwise you find life becomes v v lonely v v quickly.
And when that involves money and your ability to live and pay for things in different countries you don't get a choice about whether you want to know exchange rates and trends or not.
I put a slightly piss take spin on things because that's my nature, life is dull otherwise, but the reality is if you pitch up in a foreign country speaking a very different language to your own with a very different culture and you are expected to hit the ground running immediately - then you learn pdq or you're f
ked. And your ability to pay your mortgage is fked. There isn't a comfort zone unless you earn a stload more than I do because I certainly don't earn enough to have one.The survey on European rent is a puff piece, designed to persuade the Government to relax planning laws and maintain state subsidy of the private rental sector via housing benefit.
You will note that very few European countries have housing benefit in the same way we do, and indeed many have state regulated rent controls. As has been repeatedly pointed out the list is also a total work of fiction.
I have moved around 50 people into the Zurich area in the last few years and none of them are paying euro 400 for rentals....
Try around 2000 - 3000 chf per month.
DJRC said:
EskimoArapaho said:
DJRC said:
Normally the random bloke off the net line is a viable come back. To me, on this thread, on this subject - esp when my profile still says Zurich! - then no. As most on here will confirm whoring myself around Europe, living in said places and reporting back on what's happening across the Manche is kinda what I do. Steffan knows the Lucca prices as he has a gaff out there, Garg does a fair bit in Zurich and Zarse knows his Dutch st also. We ARE the first hand knowledge whether you like it or not.
Yes, you're the bloke who lands in one country and within about 2 days starts pontificating about how it works, or what's wrong with it. Unsurprisingly, these observations always seem to fully support your world view and your selfishness. t also. We ARE the first hand knowledge whether you like it or not.You do this repeatedly, and with some wit. But no authority.
You don't get a choice when you do this. You HAVE to get under the skin of a place quickly, get a feel of the culture and learn the dos, donts and what nots. Otherwise you find life becomes v v lonely v v quickly.
And when that involves money and your ability to live and pay for things in different countries you don't get a choice about whether you want to know exchange rates and trends or not.
I put a slightly piss take spin on things because that's my nature, life is dull otherwise, but the reality is if you pitch up in a foreign country speaking a very different language to your own with a very different culture and you are expected to hit the ground running immediately - then you learn pdq or you're f
ked. And your ability to pay your mortgage is fked. There isn't a comfort zone unless you earn a stload more than I do because I certainly don't earn enough to have one.I have to say the amount of property foreclosure by the local banks is extraordinary. They still behave like old fashioned banks; none of this Treating Customers Fairly nonsense out there, they're merciless. If you don't pay the mortgage> BOOM> they'll take it away!
DJRC said:
The flippant answer is that two days tells you a hell of a lot. The in flippant one is - er no. In terms of France it's 25yrs. Zurich was a yr of living and working there and still going back frequently as I have friends and suppliers there. Bern and Neuchatel was 18months or so. Munich a yr, Italy has been 4 yrs or so of living, working and travelling there every week or month to different bits. You want to get under the skin of a place then it's the local news, it's things like 20Minuten that you only get locally, it's things like expatforum, or toytown or internations for the expat feel. It's delving into the rental world to know your market and find your places to live. It's working and playing sport alongside your colleagues - all that stuff you do in the UK. Except usually out here you are doing it with 5-10 different nationalities and locals.
You don't get a choice when you do this. You HAVE to get under the skin of a place quickly, get a feel of the culture and learn the dos, donts and what nots. Otherwise you find life becomes v v lonely v v quickly.
And when that involves money and your ability to live and pay for things in different countries you don't get a choice about whether you want to know exchange rates and trends or not.
I put a slightly piss take spin on things because that's my nature, life is dull otherwise, but the reality is if you pitch up in a foreign country speaking a very different language to your own with a very different culture and you are expected to hit the ground running immediately - then you learn pdq or you're fked. And your ability to pay your mortgage is fked. There isn't a comfort zone unless you earn a stload more than I do because I certainly don't earn enough to have one.
Thanks. Once upon a time I was also selfish enough to simply 'follow the money'. I've been an expat in an office of mixed nationalities and cultures. You don't get a choice when you do this. You HAVE to get under the skin of a place quickly, get a feel of the culture and learn the dos, donts and what nots. Otherwise you find life becomes v v lonely v v quickly.
And when that involves money and your ability to live and pay for things in different countries you don't get a choice about whether you want to know exchange rates and trends or not.
I put a slightly piss take spin on things because that's my nature, life is dull otherwise, but the reality is if you pitch up in a foreign country speaking a very different language to your own with a very different culture and you are expected to hit the ground running immediately - then you learn pdq or you're f
ked. And your ability to pay your mortgage is fked. There isn't a comfort zone unless you earn a stload more than I do because I certainly don't earn enough to have one.I've encountered the same kind of arrogant "I've go this place sussed" attitude many times in many places. It was toe-curling then, and it's the same now. I will, however, grant you that if you shout that long and hard enough, some people will believe you.
Jimboka said:
Luke Warm said:
Jimboka said:
Good list
But I don't see families in Dover Beach cramming into a raft to depart for a better life
Things look fine around here. If it's that bad, what are the other places like?
1,000,000 people depart for a better life every three years.But I don't see families in Dover Beach cramming into a raft to depart for a better life
Things look fine around here. If it's that bad, what are the other places like?
I'm sure the ratio would be a lot higher if it was that fantastically wonderful elsewhere!
Seeing the news, it sounds like we are getting off pretty lightly compared to the rest of Europe..
We left a 3bed house in Northampton with a monthly mortgage payment of 600quid for a 2bed apartment rental of 910euros. This wasnt bad, as we decided to live 15mins out of the city. We would have paid 1500 in the city easily.
I found things like cars & insurance were very expensive for what you got. It was easily 3 times as expensive for pre-owned cars, insurance was NUTS! I paid 160euros per month, and that was effectively third party (plus if someone crashes into me) fully comp was approx 250euros per month. Ive got 10years no-claims, and was in the highest bracket. Health care is very expensive, I pay 50% of my salary into Tax & Health care.
So were moving back (with work) to live in the Cotwolds, where we can lap it up like kings again.
barryrs said:
Your far from alone Merp.
Reports suggest 30% of ex pats return to the uk.
2 years seems to be the hump here. Although 3 brits in the team with 3+ years now, their biggest hurdle will be 5years.....fortunately im still doing the same job so commuting back to the alps every couple of months works!Reports suggest 30% of ex pats return to the uk.
Andy Zarse said:
Sure it needs some work but you would not believe how little the sale estimate is, literally chicken feed.
Don't tease us Andy, what's chicken feed in the Carribean these days, $175,000 for an acre and a half ? I have no idea. Lots of depressing financial news around today. However I did like this gem
BoE kicked of QE in November 2009. The FTSE was 3500. In May 2015 it was 7100. Now isn't hindsight a wonderful thing. We all suspected it was a Credit Engineered boom, but here we all are again... stock market dipping under 6000.
Greece down another 5% today... Christ
Rouble hits an all time low
China tries to cap local bond placements by the regions .... (long way to go on that story)
Even the Fed might have to postpone the much touted interest rate rise. If you need Euro's in the next month, buy them today (yesterday would have been better)
Euro weirdly always comes out of a crisis well, offering a haven of stability in a plunging world. (look at Rand, Rouble and Aussie Dollar for contrast)
barryrs said:
Your far from alone Merp.
Reports suggest 30% of ex pats return to the uk.
I'm surprised it's not higher.Reports suggest 30% of ex pats return to the uk.
Either move out with work for a few years, then move back.
Or, move out in early retirement for the sun and sangria and then move back some years later due to health and proximity to family in the UK.
EskimoArapaho said:
DJRC said:
The flippant answer is that two days tells you a hell of a lot. The in flippant one is - er no. In terms of France it's 25yrs. Zurich was a yr of living and working there and still going back frequently as I have friends and suppliers there. Bern and Neuchatel was 18months or so. Munich a yr, Italy has been 4 yrs or so of living, working and travelling there every week or month to different bits. You want to get under the skin of a place then it's the local news, it's things like 20Minuten that you only get locally, it's things like expatforum, or toytown or internations for the expat feel. It's delving into the rental world to know your market and find your places to live. It's working and playing sport alongside your colleagues - all that stuff you do in the UK. Except usually out here you are doing it with 5-10 different nationalities and locals.
You don't get a choice when you do this. You HAVE to get under the skin of a place quickly, get a feel of the culture and learn the dos, donts and what nots. Otherwise you find life becomes v v lonely v v quickly.
And when that involves money and your ability to live and pay for things in different countries you don't get a choice about whether you want to know exchange rates and trends or not.
I put a slightly piss take spin on things because that's my nature, life is dull otherwise, but the reality is if you pitch up in a foreign country speaking a very different language to your own with a very different culture and you are expected to hit the ground running immediately - then you learn pdq or you're fked. And your ability to pay your mortgage is fked. There isn't a comfort zone unless you earn a stload more than I do because I certainly don't earn enough to have one.
Thanks. Once upon a time I was also selfish enough to simply 'follow the money'. I've been an expat in an office of mixed nationalities and cultures. You don't get a choice when you do this. You HAVE to get under the skin of a place quickly, get a feel of the culture and learn the dos, donts and what nots. Otherwise you find life becomes v v lonely v v quickly.
And when that involves money and your ability to live and pay for things in different countries you don't get a choice about whether you want to know exchange rates and trends or not.
I put a slightly piss take spin on things because that's my nature, life is dull otherwise, but the reality is if you pitch up in a foreign country speaking a very different language to your own with a very different culture and you are expected to hit the ground running immediately - then you learn pdq or you're f
ked. And your ability to pay your mortgage is fked. There isn't a comfort zone unless you earn a stload more than I do because I certainly don't earn enough to have one.I've encountered the same kind of arrogant "I've go this place sussed" attitude many times in many places. It was toe-curling then, and it's the same now. I will, however, grant you that if you shout that long and hard enough, some people will believe you.
Andy Zarse said:
Gargamel said:
Andy Zarse said:
Sure it needs some work but you would not believe how little the sale estimate is, literally chicken feed.
Don't tease us Andy, what's chicken feed in the Carribean these days, $175,000 for an acre and a half ? I have no idea.DJRC said:
Andy Zarse said:
Gargamel said:
Andy Zarse said:
Sure it needs some work but you would not believe how little the sale estimate is, literally chicken feed.
Don't tease us Andy, what's chicken feed in the Carribean these days, $175,000 for an acre and a half ? I have no idea.DJRC said:
How do you become the executor of a disused sugar mill in the middle of the leewards???
Through sheer bad luck! Their legal system is somewhat arcane, they still stick postage stamps on legal documents as evidence.(It belonged to my late aunt who lived there for many years. It's a beautiful spot, positioned nicely for the breezes on the top of a hill, which I suppose is why they built the windmill there. But as it is a mile inland it does not have a sea view so nobody wants it. The house itself is the old white devil slave master's gaff, all two foot thick stone walls and hanging shak-shak trees. To be fair the place needs gutting and rebuilding. If anyone is interested let me know and I'll send some pictures, you'd save me an amazing amount of buggeration!).
Andy Zarse said:
Gargamel said:
Andy Zarse said:
Sure it needs some work but you would not believe how little the sale estimate is, literally chicken feed.
Don't tease us Andy, what's chicken feed in the Carribean these days, $175,000 for an acre and a half ? I have no idea.(ps shocked by the low price, I thought you were ABC's?)
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 24th August 15:41
Merp said:
I was one of those 60 in 2013. Myself and my wife thought that mainland europe (austria) would be the future for us. I move back to the UK on friday - home sickness plays some part of it, but actually the lost of living v lifestyle wasnt as attractive as it first seemed.
We left a 3bed house in Northampton with a monthly mortgage payment of 600quid for a 2bed apartment rental of 910euros. This wasnt bad, as we decided to live 15mins out of the city. We would have paid 1500 in the city easily.
I found things like cars & insurance were very expensive for what you got. It was easily 3 times as expensive for pre-owned cars, insurance was NUTS! I paid 160euros per month, and that was effectively third party (plus if someone crashes into me) fully comp was approx 250euros per month. Ive got 10years no-claims, and was in the highest bracket. Health care is very expensive, I pay 50% of my salary into Tax & Health care.
So were moving back (with work) to live in the Cotwolds, where we can lap it up like kings again.
Thats a shame as Austria is a lovely place, but cheap it is not.We left a 3bed house in Northampton with a monthly mortgage payment of 600quid for a 2bed apartment rental of 910euros. This wasnt bad, as we decided to live 15mins out of the city. We would have paid 1500 in the city easily.
I found things like cars & insurance were very expensive for what you got. It was easily 3 times as expensive for pre-owned cars, insurance was NUTS! I paid 160euros per month, and that was effectively third party (plus if someone crashes into me) fully comp was approx 250euros per month. Ive got 10years no-claims, and was in the highest bracket. Health care is very expensive, I pay 50% of my salary into Tax & Health care.
So were moving back (with work) to live in the Cotwolds, where we can lap it up like kings again.
fblm said:
Andy Zarse said:
Gargamel said:
Andy Zarse said:
Sure it needs some work but you would not believe how little the sale estimate is, literally chicken feed.
Don't tease us Andy, what's chicken feed in the Carribean these days, $175,000 for an acre and a half ? I have no idea.(ps shocked by the low price, I thought you were ABC's?)
Edited by fblm on Monday 24th August 15:41
Still, I am only obeying orders!
All very educational and interesting. One of the reasons I like PH is that you can from time to time get genuine contributions and observations from the likes of Gargamel, Andy Zarse, DJRC, FBFM and many others offerred without rancour or personal bias on esoteric subjects like Carribean windmills and the difficulties of getting the duties of an executor enacted when the property market has fallen and there is property to market. Been there: done that: got the T Shirt and discovered the costs. Excellent refreshing correspondence and that is where the mainstream media are out if it. Cannot do this except on the net.
Equally the contributions recognising the inevitable consequences of the latest Chinese economy dip and the serious effects upon all the financial activities throughout the world does remind us that no country is an economic island in itself any more. As was once the case. Some like France still have a degree of security being substantially self feeding if nothing ese. But France has been heading for economic disaster year upon year for decades as DJRC reminds us. Lunatic self serving Sociaiist madness steadily destroying what was once a strong European nation. Pity.
I also appreciate the various comments on the immediate fall of a sterling in the aftermath of this latest difficulty and happily (and entirely through luck!) I have aready exchanged sufficient Euros for the two years in Italy which is what where have decided to center upon as our main residence. We will still keep a foothold in the Midlands and we will be be coming back four or five times a year. For us, the lifestyle in Lucca in Italy is calling ad we intend to see how we get on there on that basis.
Renting property the Italian downturn is continuing and will continue I think. Renting is getting ever cheaper the Italians have a real fear of rogue tenants so already having a decent reputation in Lucca means it is easy and cheap for us to rent and very flexible. I will make no comment on the currency probabilities myself because I never follow the rates or markets and look to others for guidance. Which again I often get from PH.
On the subject of this thread I find the latest nonsense from the EU mandarins whereby the EU will contimue to fund a hopelessly insolvent nation with "loans" that add more and more to the total indebtedness of Greece when theremis in fact no possibility or repayment. Which means that all these loans are going to have to be written off because Greece cannot possibly ever afford to repay the interest let alone repay the capital.
The IMF is trying to bring the light of reality to bear upon the need to write down the Greek debts. But the EU prefers to continue with this nonsense and pretend that Greece will recover. Greece is way past any recovery and will not recover. Yet more Billions of Euros are being thrown away by the EU. On what has become a vanity project for the EU. It will not last. Greece is well past any recovery whatsoever. Greece will fail totally and very probably in the not too distant future. Madness.
Equally the contributions recognising the inevitable consequences of the latest Chinese economy dip and the serious effects upon all the financial activities throughout the world does remind us that no country is an economic island in itself any more. As was once the case. Some like France still have a degree of security being substantially self feeding if nothing ese. But France has been heading for economic disaster year upon year for decades as DJRC reminds us. Lunatic self serving Sociaiist madness steadily destroying what was once a strong European nation. Pity.
I also appreciate the various comments on the immediate fall of a sterling in the aftermath of this latest difficulty and happily (and entirely through luck!) I have aready exchanged sufficient Euros for the two years in Italy which is what where have decided to center upon as our main residence. We will still keep a foothold in the Midlands and we will be be coming back four or five times a year. For us, the lifestyle in Lucca in Italy is calling ad we intend to see how we get on there on that basis.
Renting property the Italian downturn is continuing and will continue I think. Renting is getting ever cheaper the Italians have a real fear of rogue tenants so already having a decent reputation in Lucca means it is easy and cheap for us to rent and very flexible. I will make no comment on the currency probabilities myself because I never follow the rates or markets and look to others for guidance. Which again I often get from PH.
On the subject of this thread I find the latest nonsense from the EU mandarins whereby the EU will contimue to fund a hopelessly insolvent nation with "loans" that add more and more to the total indebtedness of Greece when theremis in fact no possibility or repayment. Which means that all these loans are going to have to be written off because Greece cannot possibly ever afford to repay the interest let alone repay the capital.
The IMF is trying to bring the light of reality to bear upon the need to write down the Greek debts. But the EU prefers to continue with this nonsense and pretend that Greece will recover. Greece is way past any recovery and will not recover. Yet more Billions of Euros are being thrown away by the EU. On what has become a vanity project for the EU. It will not last. Greece is well past any recovery whatsoever. Greece will fail totally and very probably in the not too distant future. Madness.
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