Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]
Discussion
Digga said:
steveT350C said:
ECB chief economist says 60 pct of its money printing ends up in Germany....
http://www.reuters.com/article/eurozone-ecb-german...
So we get nearer to the 'shttp://www.reuters.com/article/eurozone-ecb-german...
t or get off the pot' moment for the currency; closer (fiscal) union, or divergence and fracture."The report, entitled "Repair and Prepare - Growth and the Euro after Brexit", comes at a time when even the most ardent defenders of the euro are cautioning against closer integration in the aftermath of Britain's vote to leave the European Union.
Pressing ahead, they worry, would deepen public resentment towards Europe after years of economic crisis that has pushed up unemployment and sent populist, eurosceptic parties surging in opinion polls."
"This would be followed by a north-south quid pro quo on structural reforms and investments. In a third stage, the euro zone would move to a more federal structure, with risk and sovereignty sharing. This final stage, the most controversial, could take a decade or more to realise and is described as important but optional."
i sometimes wonder if these people even understand what they themselves are saying.however it does appear they do agree with the op regarding the future success of the euro.
"But in its current set-up the euro is unlikely to survive that coming crisis."
wc98 said:
it's ok , the "experts" have a plan apparently. http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eurozone-reform-i...
"The report, entitled "Repair and Prepare - Growth and the Euro after Brexit", comes at a time when even the most ardent defenders of the euro are cautioning against closer integration in the aftermath of Britain's vote to leave the European Union.
Pressing ahead, they worry, would deepen public resentment towards Europe after years of economic crisis that has pushed up unemployment and sent populist, eurosceptic parties surging in opinion polls."
"This would be followed by a north-south quid pro quo on structural reforms and investments. In a third stage, the euro zone would move to a more federal structure, with risk and sovereignty sharing. This final stage, the most controversial, could take a decade or more to realise and is described as important but optional."
i sometimes wonder if these people even understand what they themselves are saying.however it does appear they do agree with the op regarding the future success of the euro.
"But in its current set-up the euro is unlikely to survive that coming crisis."
Apparently this new report inspired by Jacques Delors, in that case:"The report, entitled "Repair and Prepare - Growth and the Euro after Brexit", comes at a time when even the most ardent defenders of the euro are cautioning against closer integration in the aftermath of Britain's vote to leave the European Union.
Pressing ahead, they worry, would deepen public resentment towards Europe after years of economic crisis that has pushed up unemployment and sent populist, eurosceptic parties surging in opinion polls."
"This would be followed by a north-south quid pro quo on structural reforms and investments. In a third stage, the euro zone would move to a more federal structure, with risk and sovereignty sharing. This final stage, the most controversial, could take a decade or more to realise and is described as important but optional."
i sometimes wonder if these people even understand what they themselves are saying.however it does appear they do agree with the op regarding the future success of the euro.
"But in its current set-up the euro is unlikely to survive that coming crisis."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/09/26/the...
So this slow motion car crash, will it trigger Italian banks issues? Or spainish?
What happens if it coincided switch China debt issues? Or what if it causes a trigger for China debt issues?
I do wonder if moving some cash into gold or Platinium is now a sensible idea.
As I understand it Lehmans Bros is miniscule compared to D Bank and then Commez bank could be pretty roller coaster ride fun - or not.
So this slow motion car crash, will it trigger Italian banks issues? Or spainish?
What happens if it coincided switch China debt issues? Or what if it causes a trigger for China debt issues?
I do wonder if moving some cash into gold or Platinium is now a sensible idea.
As I understand it Lehmans Bros is miniscule compared to D Bank and then Commez bank could be pretty roller coaster ride fun - or not.
Well now as Gargamel, Art Dir, wc98 and Digga, have identified on here there is deeply serious trouble at t'mill of Deutsche Bank and the consequences could be absolutely critical to the continuance of the EU in its current form? Merkel is indicating no bail out and the shares are tumbling down. What was once the doyen of German Banking looks ever more at peril. Is not looking good, is it??
There has been deeply serious structural mismanagement at the epicentre of one of the biggest economic blocs in the world (And it continues) and the consequences could not be more serious for every European! This is never going to be admitted by the EU, but the reality is that confidence in the structures of the EU in its current form are steadily slipping away.
I was fortunate enough to spend time some recently, with a real expert on this nonsense and his view was that the whole edifice is looking ever less and less supportable, as the madness of the huge largesse that has steadily spread throughout the EU has gradually becomes more and more apparent.
His view was that the systems created within the EU from the start, to ensure that comfortable gravy train running all over the EU, which were designed to keep all the apparatchiks, Bureaucrats and EU politicians in clover, without any unpleasant audits etc, et, are reaching the point, where the unaffordability of the whole edifice, simply cannot be continued,
I have become increasingly concerned since the Brexit vote, on 23rd June 2016 that the ever increasing and very visible changes in the demeanour and attitude of the electors within Europe, which have been steadily building up, post Brexit would reach the point where the whole balance of the European political strengths, moves from the current left wing bias, where Merkel and Co can rule, and into a sharp Right wing ascendancy which will radically alter, the whole future of Europe.
May I immediately clarify that I do not in any way support such a move, but Merkel and the 1,250,000 immigrants that Merkel allowed into Germany have created a huge resentment within Germany and a very great deal of real fear in Germany, and I think the Germans have now realised that their country cannot actually absorb this many refugees.
In consequence the times are definitely A' Changing!!
My personal concern has increasingly become that, the fundamental and continuing problems at the heart of EU may yet cause the EU to begin to crumble before the UK as actually achieved Brexit. I really do think that the reality of the visible failure of the Schengen agreement offering unlimited access for all in Europe ha been recognised as unworkable even within the EU itself.
I have real fears over the consequences that Germany will find in trying to settle that many disaffected non native speaking individuals and I am very doubtful that such an absorption is in fact possible. I believe that the EU is steadily heading towards massive financial and structural difficulties. I really do think that the EU game is up!
It is the steady drip drip drip of the ever increasing concerns in the financial communities with the likes of the desperate and worsening disasters that are the French Banks (Cheers DJRC) the German Banks like Deutsche Bank, the Italian Banks and the Spanish, Portuguese and Greek Bank's that say it all really.
I cannot see this being addressed or redressed in any way whatsoever within the EU because the EU believe that QE printing is all that is needed. I rather think the EU is wrong and we are beginning to see that the consequences are beginning in Europe! Watch this space, I think.!!
Welshbeef said:
nikaiyo2 said:
Welshbeef said:
I do wonder if moving some cash into gold or Platinium is now a sensible idea.
.
Gold maybe, but you pay VAT when you buy Platinum and silver, so it is effectively 20% overvalued..
Art0ir said:
Gargamel said:
Is Deutsche Bank about to do a Lehman
Share price has collapsed 6% today, and 53% since the start of the year.
US investigations continue, and Mrs Merkel has apparently said they won't bailout...
Not pretty.
Pretty dire.Share price has collapsed 6% today, and 53% since the start of the year.
US investigations continue, and Mrs Merkel has apparently said they won't bailout...
Not pretty.
tertius said:
Welshbeef said:
nikaiyo2 said:
Welshbeef said:
I do wonder if moving some cash into gold or Platinium is now a sensible idea.
.
Gold maybe, but you pay VAT when you buy Platinum and silver, so it is effectively 20% overvalued..
FN2TypeR said:
Will Germany be allowed to bail them out (not withstanding Merkels statements because I don't believe them)?
If they aren't allowed, how will they fudge it so they are able to?
If they areIf they aren't allowed, how will they fudge it so they are able to?
1. Cyprus will be f
ked off as they had to "bail in"2. Greece will be f
ked off instead they have sent the country back to the dark ages3. Italy will be f
ked off4. Spain will be f
ked off5. Hungary will be f
ked off6. Portugal will be f
ked off7. Ireland will be f
ked offIf they bail it out then there will be a massive problem
If they let it fail it could be the edifice
Banks cannot really make money now especially in Europe with sub zero interest rates so the issue is getting worse
Consumer debt increasing
These banks didn't deal with the problem 8 odd years ago so it's been bubbling away getting worse and worse.
Merkel is finished no matter which option she chooses.
The fact of the matter is so many banks in Europe are in a difficult position frankly they are collectively too big to save. Hence my saying why not buy tangible assets and gold for he next decade or so - classic car diamonds gold art land property
nikaiyo2 said:
Gold maybe, but you pay VAT when you buy Platinum and silver, so it is effectively 20% overvalued.
But not from Deutsche Bank, they can never find it when you ask for it! hahahttp://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-02/deutsche-...
Steffan said:
Well now as Gargamel, Art Dir, wc98 and Digga, have identified on here there is deeply serious trouble at t'mill of Deutsche Bank and the consequences could be absolutely critical to the continuance of the EU in its current form? Merkel is indicating no bail out and the shares are tumbling down. What was once the doyen of German Banking looks ever more at peril. Is not looking good, is it??
There has been deeply serious structural mismanagement at the epicentre of one of the biggest economic blocs in the world (And it continues) and the consequences could not be more serious for every European! This is never going to be admitted by the EU, but the reality is that confidence in the structures of the EU in its current form are steadily slipping away.
I was fortunate enough to spend time some recently, with a real expert on this nonsense and his view was that the whole edifice is looking ever less and less supportable, as the madness of the huge largesse that has steadily spread throughout the EU has gradually becomes more and more apparent.
His view was that the systems created within the EU from the start, to ensure that comfortable gravy train running all over the EU, which were designed to keep all the apparatchiks, Bureaucrats and EU politicians in clover, without any unpleasant audits etc, et, are reaching the point, where the unaffordability of the whole edifice, simply cannot be continued,
I have become increasingly concerned since the Brexit vote, on 23rd June 2016 that the ever increasing and very visible changes in the demeanour and attitude of the electors within Europe, which have been steadily building up, post Brexit would reach the point where the whole balance of the European political strengths, moves from the current left wing bias, where Merkel and Co can rule, and into a sharp Right wing ascendancy which will radically alter, the whole future of Europe.
May I immediately clarify that I do not in any way support such a move, but Merkel and the 1,250,000 immigrants that Merkel allowed into Germany have created a huge resentment within Germany and a very great deal of real fear in Germany, and I think the Germans have now realised that their country cannot actually absorb this many refugees.
In consequence the times are definitely A' Changing!!
My personal concern has increasingly become that, the fundamental and continuing problems at the heart of EU may yet cause the EU to begin to crumble before the UK as actually achieved Brexit. I really do think that the reality of the visible failure of the Schengen agreement offering unlimited access for all in Europe ha been recognised as unworkable even within the EU itself.
I have real fears over the consequences that Germany will find in trying to settle that many disaffected non native speaking individuals and I am very doubtful that such an absorption is in fact possible. I believe that the EU is steadily heading towards massive financial and structural difficulties. I really do think that the EU game is up!
It is the steady drip drip drip of the ever increasing concerns in the financial communities with the likes of the desperate and worsening disasters that are the French Banks (Cheers DJRC) the German Banks like Deutsche Bank, the Italian Banks and the Spanish, Portuguese and Greek Bank's that say it all really.
I cannot see this being addressed or redressed in any way whatsoever within the EU because the EU believe that QE printing is all that is needed. I rather think the EU is wrong and we are beginning to see that the consequences are beginning in Europe! Watch this space, I think.!!
Only my very humble opinion, but that is a damn fine post, Steffan.There has been deeply serious structural mismanagement at the epicentre of one of the biggest economic blocs in the world (And it continues) and the consequences could not be more serious for every European! This is never going to be admitted by the EU, but the reality is that confidence in the structures of the EU in its current form are steadily slipping away.
I was fortunate enough to spend time some recently, with a real expert on this nonsense and his view was that the whole edifice is looking ever less and less supportable, as the madness of the huge largesse that has steadily spread throughout the EU has gradually becomes more and more apparent.
His view was that the systems created within the EU from the start, to ensure that comfortable gravy train running all over the EU, which were designed to keep all the apparatchiks, Bureaucrats and EU politicians in clover, without any unpleasant audits etc, et, are reaching the point, where the unaffordability of the whole edifice, simply cannot be continued,
I have become increasingly concerned since the Brexit vote, on 23rd June 2016 that the ever increasing and very visible changes in the demeanour and attitude of the electors within Europe, which have been steadily building up, post Brexit would reach the point where the whole balance of the European political strengths, moves from the current left wing bias, where Merkel and Co can rule, and into a sharp Right wing ascendancy which will radically alter, the whole future of Europe.
May I immediately clarify that I do not in any way support such a move, but Merkel and the 1,250,000 immigrants that Merkel allowed into Germany have created a huge resentment within Germany and a very great deal of real fear in Germany, and I think the Germans have now realised that their country cannot actually absorb this many refugees.
In consequence the times are definitely A' Changing!!
My personal concern has increasingly become that, the fundamental and continuing problems at the heart of EU may yet cause the EU to begin to crumble before the UK as actually achieved Brexit. I really do think that the reality of the visible failure of the Schengen agreement offering unlimited access for all in Europe ha been recognised as unworkable even within the EU itself.
I have real fears over the consequences that Germany will find in trying to settle that many disaffected non native speaking individuals and I am very doubtful that such an absorption is in fact possible. I believe that the EU is steadily heading towards massive financial and structural difficulties. I really do think that the EU game is up!
It is the steady drip drip drip of the ever increasing concerns in the financial communities with the likes of the desperate and worsening disasters that are the French Banks (Cheers DJRC) the German Banks like Deutsche Bank, the Italian Banks and the Spanish, Portuguese and Greek Bank's that say it all really.
I cannot see this being addressed or redressed in any way whatsoever within the EU because the EU believe that QE printing is all that is needed. I rather think the EU is wrong and we are beginning to see that the consequences are beginning in Europe! Watch this space, I think.!!
Great post Steffan. Only cropped for brevity of the thread.
Steffan said:
There has been deeply serious structural mismanagement at the epicentre of one of the biggest economic blocs in the world (And it continues) and the consequences could not be more serious for every European! This is never going to be admitted by the EU, but the reality is that confidence in the structures of the EU in its current form are steadily slipping away.
I was fortunate enough to spend time some recently, with a real expert on this nonsense and his view was that the whole edifice is looking ever less and less supportable, as the madness of the huge largesse that has steadily spread throughout the EU has gradually becomes more and more apparent.
His view was that the systems created within the EU from the start, to ensure that comfortable gravy train running all over the EU, which were designed to keep all the apparatchiks, Bureaucrats and EU politicians in clover, without any unpleasant audits etc, et, are reaching the point, where the unaffordability of the whole edifice, simply cannot be continued,
You could see this, for years, within the PIIGS - everything went beserk as soon as they joined the Euro and no one was really counting the money, just reveling in its abundance.I was fortunate enough to spend time some recently, with a real expert on this nonsense and his view was that the whole edifice is looking ever less and less supportable, as the madness of the huge largesse that has steadily spread throughout the EU has gradually becomes more and more apparent.
His view was that the systems created within the EU from the start, to ensure that comfortable gravy train running all over the EU, which were designed to keep all the apparatchiks, Bureaucrats and EU politicians in clover, without any unpleasant audits etc, et, are reaching the point, where the unaffordability of the whole edifice, simply cannot be continued,
Steffan said:
I have become increasingly concerned since the Brexit vote, on 23rd June 2016 that the ever increasing and very visible changes in the demeanour and attitude of the electors within Europe, which have been steadily building up, post Brexit would reach the point where the whole balance of the European political strengths, moves from the current left wing bias, where Merkel and Co can rule, and into a sharp Right wing ascendancy which will radically alter, the whole future of Europe.
Like you, I am deeply concerned by the chronic effects of the top-down, cultural totalitarianism, that allowed no discussion or debate on this most difficult and emotive issue. The way things have been allowed to fester have provided oxygen for political views that have no place in civilised society, but are nonetheless inevitable.Welshbeef said:
If they are
1. Cyprus will be fked off as they had to "bail in"
2. Greece will be fked off instead they have sent the country back to the dark ages
3. Italy will be fked off
4. Spain will be fked off
5. Hungary will be fked off
6. Portugal will be fked off
7. Ireland will be fked off
If they bail it out then there will be a massive problem
If they let it fail it could be the edifice
Banks cannot really make money now especially in Europe with sub zero interest rates so the issue is getting worse
Consumer debt increasing
These banks didn't deal with the problem 8 odd years ago so it's been bubbling away getting worse and worse.
Merkel is finished no matter which option she chooses.
The fact of the matter is so many banks in Europe are in a difficult position frankly they are collectively too big to save. Hence my saying why not buy tangible assets and gold for he next decade or so - classic car diamonds gold art land property
On the other hand if they let Deutsche fail, then Commerzbank is also likely to go down as collateral damage. Plus whoever has traded CDO's and have funds out with Deutsche (Italy I am looking at you) is also in major trouble. 1. Cyprus will be f
ked off as they had to "bail in"2. Greece will be f
ked off instead they have sent the country back to the dark ages3. Italy will be f
ked off4. Spain will be f
ked off5. Hungary will be f
ked off6. Portugal will be f
ked off7. Ireland will be f
ked offIf they bail it out then there will be a massive problem
If they let it fail it could be the edifice
Banks cannot really make money now especially in Europe with sub zero interest rates so the issue is getting worse
Consumer debt increasing
These banks didn't deal with the problem 8 odd years ago so it's been bubbling away getting worse and worse.
Merkel is finished no matter which option she chooses.
The fact of the matter is so many banks in Europe are in a difficult position frankly they are collectively too big to save. Hence my saying why not buy tangible assets and gold for he next decade or so - classic car diamonds gold art land property
A lot like RBS in the UK, if there was bad business or some kind of poor practice Deutsche is in there somewhere, I would imagine the French and Italians will be lobbying for the bank to be saved by Merkel. Because if it isn't then I think it exposes a lot of others across Europe.
I am not sure why depositors at Deutsche aren't queuing round the block right now to get their funds out ?
arguti said:
i think the general rule is that if you buy (gold) coins that are UK legal tender there is no VAT but if you buy any other form of gold, silver, etc there is.
Not correct, you can buy pretty much any sort of gold investment (fund), bullion etc. without incurring VAT or taxes on gains.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff